Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 118
  1. #21
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    28
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    92- Pairs- same as was, maybe switch silver and bronze.

    Mens- Petrenko or Browning gold or silver. Order not definite, depends which jumps each tried. Browning would need the harder jumps to win. Bronze to Barna over Bowman and Eldredge assuming Barna skated clean with a quad, Bowman just with 1 triple axel, and Eldredge with 2 triple axels.

    Ladies- Yamaguchi gold. Ito silver. Kerrigan or Harding bronze, not sure which.


    94- Pairs- same as was or Kovarikova & Novotny winning bronze over Brasseur & Eisler.

    Mens- Hmmm no idea here. Depends which jumps they did. Browning probably gold if he did 2 triple axels and a triple-triple. Petrenko silver. Bronze to Stojko if he does his quad-triple, and one of Urmanov, Boitano, or Davis or Candelero if he doesnt.

    Ladies- Any of 6 women could medal if all skated cleanly or if all didnt. Sato, Jossee, Lu, Nancy, Bonaly, Oksana. My pick is if all skated cleanly Bonaly would be the only of the 6 to medal FOR SURE (not neccessarily gold though), and Lu Chen would for sure not win a medal of any color. After that which 2 of the 4 remaining Kerrigan, Sato, Josee, or Oksana would win a medal, which 2 would miss out on one, and what order the podium would have been I have no idea. ]

    With the performances like they were in Lillehammer and nobody doing their best though probably any of those 6 (or 5, minus Chen) were probably capable of winning.

  2. #22
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    28
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    98 Olympics- Pairs- Gold for Elena and her partner. Silver for that boring team that won. Bronze for who knows, 4 or 5 possible if all go clean.

    98 Olympics- Men- Depends which jumps they did with their clean skates. Kulik probably winning. Stojko silver or maybe even gold with quad-triple, with his clean quadless skate he did probably 4th or 5th if all go clean. Todd silver or bronze depending on Stojko quad or no quad. Yagudin 3rd or 4th depending on Elvis quad or no quad.

    98 Olympics- Ladies- Lipinski gold. Kwan silver. Butyrskaya probably bronze. Bobek or Slutskaya bronze if Butyrskaya makes any mistakes and they dont.

  3. #23
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    28
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    2002 Olympics- Pairs- Same podium.

    2002 Olympics- Men- Not sure who wins between Yagudin and Plushenko. Depends which jumps they try and who had won the short some too. Bronze to Eldredge maybe.

    2002 Olympics- Ladies- Slutskaya gold for sure. Clean Irina skating last with atleast 1 triple-triple would have mostly all 6.0s for technical and 5.9s for presentation. Cohen silver over Kwan if she does triple lutz-triple toe and Kwan skates cleanly with no triple-triple but Kwan over Cohen if she does triple toe-triple toe.




    2006 Olympics- ladies- Hard to say, depends what planned. All of Slutskaya, Cohen, and Arakawa skating cleanly with no triple-triples, Shizuka would win, Cohen would be silver if Irina skated bad clean like she was the first 2 minutes of her program, and bronze behind Irina if Irina skated good clean. Then if Slutskaya and Shizuka both do triple-triples depends how many and who does harder but probably Irina now.

    2006 Olympics- mens- Lambiel would win gold over Plushenko going clean, then Buttle or Takahashi for bronze.

    2006 Olymicps- pairs- Totmianina & MArinin winning easily. Shen & Zhao healthy and skating cleanly silver. Bronze to the Zhangs or silver or Shen & Zhao with clean quad throw axel like they planned.



    2010 Olympics- mens- no idea, about 10 possible podiums. No medals for Lysacek or Plushenko though if all go clean.

    2010 Olympics- pairs- same or silver and bronze switched.

    2010 Olympics- ladies- same as was.

  4. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,774
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by briantoronto View Post

    2006 Olympics- mens- Lambiel would win gold over Plushenko going clean, then Buttle or Takahashi for bronze.
    Really?
    Plushenko SP TECH-49.69 PCS- 40.97 --- > 90.66 LP TECH-85.25 PCS-82.42 ---> 167.67----> 258.33

    Lambiel SP TECH-40.61 pCS-38.43 ----> 79.04 LP TECH 76.89 PCS-76.28---152.12-----> 231.21 huuuuge difference.

  5. #25
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    600
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Plushenko was way overmarked at the 2006 Olympics, and his competitors all undermarked, especialy in PCS. His margin of lead after the SP and overall victory was a joke, even if the event wasnt the best skated. That is why people high up in the sport stepped forward and spoke out about Plushenko's skating prior to Vancouver to make sure a farce like that did not happen again.

  6. #26
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,774
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    Plushenko was way overmarked at the 2006 Olympics, and his competitors all undermarked, especialy in PCS. His margin of lead after the SP and overall victory was a joke, even if the event wasnt the best skated. That is why people high up in the sport stepped forward and spoke out about Plushenko's skating prior to Vancouver to make sure a farce like that did not happen again.
    I think what you said that is a joke. No one questioned his victory, who are really understand the FS. Listen to the NBC commentators. They don't like Plush's FS, but they didn't say that he didn't deserve the gold medal.. haters gonna hate...

  7. #27
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    600
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I didnt say he didnt deserve the gold. Of course he did, he skated solidly and the event was a splatfest. However he did not deserve his scores, especialy his PCS, or his mammoth lead after the short program. David Pelletier, Elizabeth Manley, Dick Button, and Scott Hamilton all spoke about that, and that thank goodness the judges did not give Plushenko a joke or ridiculous 10 point lead after the short like Turin. There is nobody who says Plushenko didnt deserve gold in turin, but there is also nobody that says he wasnt overmarked.

    As to whether he could lose if others skated cleanly in Turin. Probably not with his ridiculous scores but a clean Lambiel with a quad should easily beat any skate by Plushenko. He has much better spins and much better artistry. Heck if Lysacek without a quad can beat a clean Plushenko, Lambiel or Takahashi should even be able to beat him without a quad or triple axel then.

  8. #28
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,774
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    I didnt say he didnt deserve the gold. Of course he did, he skated solidly and the event was a splatfest. However he did not deserve his scores, especialy his PCS, or his mammoth lead after the short program. David Pelletier, Elizabeth Manley, Dick Button, and Scott Hamilton all spoke about that, and that thank goodness the judges did not give Plushenko a joke or ridiculous 10 point lead after the short like Turin. There is nobody who says Plushenko didnt deserve gold in turin, but there is also nobody that says he wasnt overmarked.

    As to whether he could lose if others skated cleanly in Turin. Probably not with his ridiculous scores but a clean Lambiel with a quad should easily beat any skate by Plushenko. He has much better spins and much better artistry. Heck if Lysacek without a quad can beat a clean Plushenko, Lambiel or Takahashi should even be able to beat him without a quad or triple axel then.
    You mentioned only north-american commentators,and american experts..probabaly you should listen to some experts from Europe and Asia ..

    For example Lambiel, Buttle, Dai never beat Plushenko in PCS in that time... never.. are you a judge? No.

  9. #29
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    600
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Everyone knows PCS is mostly about reputation. When it comes to PCS Plushenko deserves high marks for skating skills and performance. However transitions or choreography, dont make me laugh, there is hardly any in his programs. Interpretation varies depending on the program or performance but people like Takahashi and Lambiel are far superior there.

    Anyway in Vancouver prominent people like Joe Inman spoke out about the injusice of Plushenko's generous GOE and PCS in the past, and the judges suddenly scored him fairly and what happens. He skates fairly clean and loses to one of the most generic and average Olympic winners ever who didnt even try a quad. Just imagine had Lambiel or Takahashi or people way better than Lysacek skated against this newly fairly scored Plushenko.

  10. #30
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    600
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I will only do ladies since I dont care about the rest much:

    1992: Yamaguchi Gold, Harding Silver, Ito Bronze. Unless Ito does 2 triple axels in the long instead of 1 like some in this thread talk then Ito gold, Yamaguchi silver, Harding bronze.

    1994: Bonaly gold, Sato silver, Kerrigan or Josee bronze. Baiul benefited from others major mistakes, even Kerrigan's doubled flip was a huge mistake and much bigger than any of Baiul's.

    1998: Gold Lipnski, Silver Kwan, Bronze Butyrskaya

    2002: Gold Cohen if she did the quad and triple lutz-triple toe, Silver Slutskaya or gold if Cohen doesnt do quad, Bronze Kwan

    2006: Gold Slutskaya, Silver Arakawa, Bronze Kwan if she skated with much improved PCS and included a triple-triple

    2010: Gold Kostner, Silver Kim, Bronze Asada


    It is funny to think of who are some of the luckiest people everyone didnt skate cleanly. I would say Chen in 94 and 98 since she would be 6th or 7th both times if everyone went clean, but since she made much fewer mistakes she ended up with a medal both times. I would also say Baiul in 94, Arakawa in 2006 since a clean Slutskaya, clean Cohen, and clean Kwan could all beat her especialy as she didnt do her best. Yamaguchi in 92 since with her mistakes all of Harding, Ito, and even Kerrigan could have beaten her for gold had they gone clean.

  11. #31
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,774
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    Everyone knows PCS is mostly about reputation. When it comes to PCS Plushenko deserves high marks for skating skills and performance. However transitions or choreography, dont make me laugh, there is hardly any in his programs. Interpretation varies depending on the program or performance but people like Takahashi and Lambiel are far superior there.

    Anyway in Vancouver prominent people like Joe Inman spoke out about the injusice of Plushenko's generous GOE and PCS in the past, and the judges suddenly scored him fairly and what happens. He skates fairly clean and loses to one of the most generic and average Olympic winners ever who didnt even try a quad. Just imagine had Lambiel or Takahashi or people way better than Lysacek skated against this newly fairly scored Plushenko.

    I ask again..Are you a judge? No. You are funny. If Plushenko received high PCS, thanks to his reputation...hmmm. Interesting. Look at his scores from the beginning, when he wasn't a champion.. He always got high scores...Maybe are you wrong?
    The TR is only one part of the PCS. Right? and the TR aren't the most important things of the FS. Plushy's interpretation always was the highest in competitons before 2006.

    And are you proud of Inman? His letter was a shame in Fs history.. You mentioned Lysacek..yes he beat Plush, but in Europe many experts disagreed with his victory .. They said Evan was overmarked in SP, the Lp scores were OK.

    Do you know at Vancouver Plush's Interp-8,75 Perf/ex- 8,8

    Evan's Int-8,4 Perf-8,5

    Dai Int-8,65 Perf-8,5

    Last edited by lala; 09-04-2013 at 08:05 PM.

  12. #32

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,275
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    43732
    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    I will only do ladies since I dont care about the rest much:

    1992: Yamaguchi Gold, Harding Silver, Ito Bronze. Unless Ito does 2 triple axels in the long instead of 1 like some in this thread talk then Ito gold, Yamaguchi silver, Harding bronze.

    1994: Bonaly gold, Sato silver, Kerrigan or Josee bronze. Baiul benefited from others major mistakes, even Kerrigan's doubled flip was a huge mistake and much bigger than any of Baiul's.
    I have to disagree with you on both.

    1992- Midori had planned TWO triple axels, one in combination. I don't see how she wins only the bronze with that. This was 6.0 system and harder jumps were actually rewarded in a major way.

    1994- There is no way the judges were going to give the OGM to Bonaly, regardless of how anyone skated. Also I don't see a clean Baiul not even on the podium. Artistically she was better than any of the other ladies you mentioned, including Sato (at that time her artistry had not developed the way it did in the pros).

  13. #33

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,794
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1805
    2002: Gold Cohen if she did the quad and triple lutz-triple toe, Silver Slutskaya or gold if Cohen doesnt do quad, Bronze Kwan
    When did Cohen ever land a quad? If we can throw in imaginary combos then I say Kwan wins SLC AND Nagano with her 3 lutz/3loop and 3flip/3toe that she never landed.

  14. #34
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    356
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I agree no way was Ito gonna be third if she landed all her technical difficulty. She actually had more planned than Harding with potentially 2 3A's and a Lutz/toe combo. I think even one 3A with a clean 3/3 would give her the win.

    Kerrigans mistake in Lillehammer really wasn't that serious. She just doubled a planned triple. Baiul made far more errors like egregiously two footing the 3flip. If Baiul went clean though, I think the judges would have no problem giving her gold seeing as she won it as is. Bonaly would be lucky to podium even if she went clean. Sato and Kerrigan would duel it out for second and third. It would be interesting if Chen went clean with the 3/3 would the judges give her a break and give her the silver over Sato/Kerrigan.

  15. #35
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    356
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    double post

  16. #36
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    600
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    1992- Midori had planned TWO triple axels, one in combination. I don't see how she wins only the bronze with that. This was 6.0 system and harder jumps were actually rewarded in a major way.
    Notice I said IF Midori did two triple axels her gold, and if she did only one bronze. So I agree if she did 2 triple axels she would win. I dont know if that is what she planned or not. The commentators said when she did the late one that was not what was planned there which indicates no. If she did only 1 triple axel, well Tonya also had the triple axel, and Kristi had two triple lutzes, a triple lutz-triple toe, and lots of jumps out of split jumps, and a clean Kristi would get much higher artistic marks than either Midori or Tonya which would probably make the difference.


    1994- There is no way the judges were going to give the OGM to Bonaly, regardless of how anyone skated. Also I don't see a clean Baiul not even on the podium. Artistically she was better than any of the other ladies you mentioned, including Sato (at that time her artistry had not developed the way it did in the pros).
    1994 is the year I am most unsure of since there was no clear favorite that year, and there are atleast 6 women who had a great shot at a medal, possibly even the gold- Baiul, Sato, Kerrigan, Chouinard, Bonaly, and Chen. I am not sure how the final order would have been at all if everyone skated cleanly. Some people say this was a weak year for the women, and it probably was, but for me it was perhaps the most exciting ever since it is the only year that about 5 or 6 women had almost equal chances at any of the medals. The contenders got wittled down quickly though. Sato and Chouinard took themselves out of any chance for a medal in the short program, and Chen took herself out of gold medal contention by stumbling and coming 4th in the short. Bonaly then had her worst long program in 2 years. However had all 6 skated reasonably well it would have been an insanely close event for the medals.

    I picked Bonaly to win if all were clean since she had by far the hardest technical program of anyone. Triple lutz-double toe, 2nd triple lutz, triple salchow-triple toe, triple flip-triple toe. There was far more controversy over her losing the 93 Worlds to Baiul, than even Kerrigan losing the 94 Olympics to Baiul, and Baiul skated much better at the 93 Worlds than she did to win the 94 Olympics. Bonaly had just beaten a clean Baiul who skated much better than Lillehammer at the 94 Europeans, and Bonaly even missed her 2nd triple lutz there. So based on all that a clean Bonaly would have had a great shot to win I think.

    As for Baiul not winning a medal I could easily see that. You say artistically she was way over the rest. Well if that is so how did Kerrigan get exactly the same artistic marks as her- a few 5.8s and the rest 5.9s. It is a myth Kerrigan lost gold to Baiul by lower artistic marks, she lost it due to the too high technical marks Baiul was gifted with. Baiul won 3 of her 5 judges purely on a higher technical mark. Had Kerrigan done the triple flip she would have won for sure, even with Baiul's generous scores. Baiul's long program was poorly choreographed and in no way was she in another league from the others on the 2nd mark in the long program. In the short with her stunning Swan Lake yes, but not her long. I think if all skated well Kerrigan, Sato, and Chouinard would have all been competitive with Baiul on the 2nd mark, and all would easily beat her on the first mark if they were completely clean, regardless what Baiul did. Bonaly would beat Baiul so badly on the 1st mark she would come out ahead overall too. Chen is the only one who would have virtually no chance to beat a clean Baiul.

  17. #37
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    600
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Lnt175 View Post
    I agree no way was Ito gonna be third if she landed all her technical difficulty. She actually had more planned than Harding with potentially 2 3A's and a Lutz/toe combo. I think even one 3A with a clean 3/3 would give her the win.

    Kerrigans mistake in Lillehammer really wasn't that serious. She just doubled a planned triple. Baiul made far more errors like egregiously two footing the 3flip. If Baiul went clean though, I think the judges would have no problem giving her gold seeing as she won it as is. Bonaly would be lucky to podium even if she went clean. Sato and Kerrigan would duel it out for second and third. It would be interesting if Chen went clean with the 3/3 would the judges give her a break and give her the silver over Sato/Kerrigan.
    What about Chouinard. Her performances from the 93 and 94 Canadians minus 1 mistake in each would have been hard to keep off the podium I think. Her American in Paris program that year was also charming and very well choreographed and she planned 7 triples and 2 triple lutzes. She had nice big jumps too, some of the best when she landed them.




    Also remember Bonaly beat a very good Baiul at the 94 Olympics, a better one than the Olympics one, and at Worlds people were very upset when Bonaly barely lost to a clean Baiul who was also much better than she was at the Olympics. I think she is more a factor than people believe even if I am not a fan of her skating.

    People are also reading alot into the short program results probably where Kerrigan easily beat Bonaly, Baiul with a two foot was over her, and Chen was only behind her with a mistake. However remember the short program Bonaly cant do her triple-triples and all her harder combinations so her advantage is gone. Also in the short a footwork and spiral sequence is required which Bonaly cant do worth a darn and is lucky to not get a .3 deduction for inadequate element for each. In the long she isnt required to do either of those and she has by far harder jumps than anyone else at the time in her long programs.

    People say judges would never give Bonaly a major gold but those who say that answer this. How did she lose the 93, 94, and 95 Worlds by only 1 judge. That means each time 4 judges were willing to make her World Champion. Also it is not like those were splatfests, 93 and 95 Worlds were actually excellent events with lots of clean skates by the contenders. Did the 4 judges who voted for her each time somehow magically know the other 5 wouldnt and the horror of Bonaly winning a major title wouldnt happen. Obviously judges were willing to accept the idea of her winning a major title, the fact it so very nearly happened 3 times, despite that she never did.



    I also consider doubling a major triple to be a far worse error than slightly two footing one. Just look at COP, how many points would you lose on one vs the other. Like 5 points vs only about 1. I know 6.0 isnt scored exactly the same but still. I think Nancys mistake is downplayed since people badly wanted her to win, and usually someone doubling a major triple wouldnt be called a minor mistake. Dont get me wrong, I still think she should have won even with what I consider the bigger mistake since she had much more jump combinations than Baiul, and Baiul had super weak non jump technical elements, and not even great choreography-artistry in the long program.
    Last edited by KimGOAT; 09-05-2013 at 01:17 AM.

  18. #38
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    356
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    If Chouinard and Baiul both went clean it would be very close between them for a medal, but I'm not sure it would be gold for Josee. As you mentioned it was not Baiuls artistic scores that won her the Olympics, but the technical. If Baiul went clean i think there is a higher chance she would win (or silver behind a clean Kerrigan or possibly Chouinard or Sato). At the 93 worlds I agree Bonaly should have won, but Baiul went relatively clean and still won. Bonaly beat Baiul at Euros, but at the bigger competitions (worlds) it seemed the judges always scored her just enough to lose the gold.

    Also the judges loved Kerrigan (remember her high marks at the 92 worlds and Olympics with lackluster skates and granted she did lose alot of stock with her meltdown at worlds the previous year), and without the knee whack drama, if she went clean I can't see her lower than silver even if all the rest hit.

    Again this is not how I would judge the event, but my opinion of the how the judges generally preferred Kerrigans skating with the exception of Baiul. One thing I agree though if all went clean it would be one difficult and exciting event to judge.

  19. #39
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    600
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Isnt it the only year there were like 6 contenders who were close to equal. Then a few other dark horses like Szewcenko who had beaten Baiul that year, and Harding. Every other year I can think of only 2 or 3 skaters having any chance of the gold and 4 or 5 at most with a real shot to medal. People say it was a mediocre field that year, and in a way it was, but it also made it exciting because alot of very good skaters, not great skaters, who were all at a similar level.

  20. #40
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    22
    Posts
    12,933
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Most of the podiums would have been roughly the same. The only ones that were majorly affected by mistakes I believe were:

    1992 Olympic mens: Everyone relatively clean gold would be a horse race between Browning and Petrenko and the title would come down to which difficulty each did, performance value, and judges preference. Bronze would have been between Barna, Wylie, Eldredge, and Bowman, but Wylie highly unlikely to get it due to both lower difficulty and lower rep. value.

    1994 Olympic mens: Would have been similar to 94 with gold a Petrenko vs Browning battle and a bunch battling for bronze including the 3 medalists and Boitano.

    1998 Olympic pairs: Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze would have won easily skating well, and silver and bronze would have been a big battle between a number of pairs. Kazahkova & Dmitriev probably skated well enough to win the silver though, even if others had performed well.

    2002 Olympic ladies: In a well skated overall even it would be Slutskaya or Kwan for the gold (more likely Slutskaya if she skated her best IMO), and the bronze between Hughes, Butyrskaya, and Cohen.

    2006 Olympic dance: I have a feeling Belbin & Agosto were going to miss the podium that year, more in hindsight I guess than anything, had it been a well skated event without unusual falls and mistakes. I am happy for them it turned out as it did as they were the #2 team the past 2 years and deserved that silver. Still had Denkova & Stayviski and Dubreuil & Lauzon gotten through a clean competition I think the podium would have had them as silver and bronze in either order.

    2010 Olympics mens: I dont know what would have happened for sure here except that I doubt Lysacek or Plushenko would have even medalled in a well skated event. However given the field of men present that was never likely, and it was always likely one or both were going to medal through their consistency alone, even if not neccessarily go 1-2. A relatively clean Lambiel and Takahashi would probably both medal, and probably one win.



    One could nitpick others like the 92 Olympic ladies that Yamaguchi may have won only silver or bronze if Ito and Harding skated perfectly, or Harding may have won silver or bronze and bumped Kerrigan off if everyone skated well; or the 98 mens where Stojko may have won over Kulik if he skated his very best, or Eldredge medalled if he skated well, but those arent even completely obvious like the above cases were the whole standings were majorly affected by mistakes.

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •