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  1. #1
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    What would Olympic podiums from 92-2014 been if everyone skated cleanly

    From Albertville to next years Sochi Olympics what would the podiums have been at Olympic Games of athletes been if everyone do best. Maybe not do Sochi yet since Sochi happen for future. It is so hard to say in some cases but my guesses would be:

    Albertville Olympics

    Pairs Gold- Miskutienok and Dmitriev
    Pairs Silver- Brasseur and Eisler
    Pairs Bronze- Bechke and Petro


    Mens Gold- Viktor Petrenko
    Mens Silver- Kurt Browning
    Mens Bronze- Petra Barna (assuming he landed clean quad)



    Ladies Gold- Midori Ito- I think she had 2 triple axels in long and triple axel-triple toe and triple lutz-triple toe combinations. Can someone confirm that. If she had only one tirple axel I would guess Kristi since judges loved her package.

    Ladies Silver- Kristi Yamaguchi

    Ladies Bronze- Tonya Harding- I dont think the judges liked her artistic as much as Kristi or even Midori. I was going to guess even below Nancy, but her technical was probably too superior to lose to her if both went clean.




    Lillehammer 2 year only Olympaid

    Pairs Gold- Gordeeeva and Grinkov- they didnt skate that good and still won, so makes easy answer.

    Pairs Silver- Miskutienok and Dmitriev

    Pairs Bronze- Skating their best their beautiful artistry would take them 3rd place over the others.


    Mens Gold- Viktor Petrenko

    Mens Silver- Kurt Browning

    Mens Bronze- Elvis Stojko assuming he does quad-triple cleanly, otherwise Alexei Urmanov or Scott Davis


    Ladies Gold- Yuka Sato

    Ladies Silver- Nancy Kerrigan

    Ladies Bronze- Oksana Baiul




    Nagano Olympics

    Pairs Gold- Berezhnaya & Sikardlidze

    Pairs Silver- Woetzel & steuer

    Pairs Bronze- Yeltsova & Bushkov or Kazakova & Dmitriev



    Mens Gold- Elvis Stojko assuming quad-triple, otherwise only bronze

    Mens Silver- Ilia Kulik

    Mens Bronze- Todd Eldredge


    Ladies Gold- Tara Lipinski

    Ladies Silver- Michelle Kwan both did skate cleanly and that was result

    Ladies Bronze- Maria Butyrskaya (although might have been Bobek as well, Chen would be 8th or 9th if all skate cleanly here)




    Salt Lake City Olympics


    Pairs Gold- Berezhnaya & Sikardlidze

    Pairs Silver- Sale & Pelletier

    Pairs Bronze- Shen & Zhao



    Mens Gold- Alexei Yagudin

    Mens Silver- Evgeny Plushenko

    Mens Bronze- Todd Eldredge would be given home ice retirement present


    Ladies Gold- Irina Slutskaya. Her long program was even more from best than Kwan and she still beat her so at best she wins

    Ladies Silver- Michelle Kwan

    Ladies Bronze- Sasha Cohen. Judges liked her more than Hughes as short program proved. She would win gold over Hughes if dont fall.




    Turin(0) Olympics

    Pairs Gold- Totmianina & Marinin

    Pairs Silver- Shen & Zhao. I am thinking the best their realistic clean skate would be given their injury limitations which would still be slower and without usual power. Plus absence had allowed T&M to gain momentum and political support.

    Pairs Bronze- Zhangs. Actually if they land clean quad throw they probably win silver even over clean Shen & Zhao but I dont sure I consider that as they not capable of quad throw and stupid try it in desperation to try and beat Russians it seemed.


    Mens Gold- Plushenko

    Mens Silver- Lambiel

    Mens Bronze- Buttle same as podium was even if everyone skate better.




    Ladies Gold- Slutskaya or Arakawa. I am not sure which triple-triples each plan.

    Ladies Bronze- Cohen




    Vancouver Olympics


    Pairs Gold- Savchenko & Szolkowy

    Pairs Silver- Shen & Zhao

    Pairs Bronze- Kavaguti & Smirnov




    Mens Gold- Lambiel

    Mens Silver- Takahashi

    Mens Bronze- dont know, any of Plushenko, Chan, Lysacek, Abbott, Joubert



    Ladies Gold- Kim (duh, easiest one yet)

    Ladies Silver- Asada

    Ladies Bronze- Rochette same as podium was here



    Sochi to add later after the benefit of seeing event and having easier idea how the judges would have placed had gone clean.

  2. #2
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    Jeezus, this is quite the magnum opus. If Tolkien were alive and a Junior-Mint chomping member of FSU, he could not have done better in chronicling the skating history of this alternative (and presumably better) Earth .

    (OTOH, if he were into Junior Mints, he'd probably have very different notions of what went down at Nagano and SLC Mk.II)

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    For Lillihamer you did not name the bronze winner.

    You really think a clean Takahashi would have beaten a clean Plushenko?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    For Lillihamer you did not name the bronze winner.

    You really think a clean Takahashi would have beaten a clean Plushenko?

    I thought I did? Which event are you referring to.

    For your Takahashi vs Plushenko question absolutely and quite comfortably too. Plushenko's performances in Vancouver could be even considered clean and he lost to Lysacek and a clean Takahashi with his quad was easily beating Lysacek without one. Takahashi in the short was almost tied with Plushenko with Plushenko doing a quad-triple and Takahashi only a triple flip-triple toe. In the long both had quads so it was over for Plushenko if Takahashi went clean. Takahashi got the highest PCS in the long program even with his mistakes. Based on that his PCS woud have lapped Plushenko going clean and with the quad and all the other jumps too easily comes out ahead.

    Vancouver was not Turin(o). Plushenko was not the man to beat anymore. He got silver mostly due to all the mistakes of the event. That average Evan beat him shows he was no longer the guy to beat.

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    Albertville Olympics

    Pairs Gold- Mishkutenok and Dmitriev
    Pairs Silver- Brasseur and Eisler
    Pairs Bronze- Bechke and Petrov

    Mens Gold- Viktor Petrenko
    Mens Silver- Kurt Browning
    Mens Bronze- Petr Barna

    Ladies Gold- Midori Ito
    Ladies Silver- Kristi Yamaguchi
    Ladies Bronze- Tonya Harding


    Lillehammer 2 year only Olympaid

    Pairs Gold- Gordeeva and Grinkov
    Pairs Silver- Mishkutenok and Dmitriev
    Pairs Bronze- Brasseur and Eisler


    Mens Gold- Viktor Petrenko
    Mens Silver- Kurt Browning
    Mens Bronze- Elvis Stojko


    Ladies Gold- Chen Lu
    Ladies Silver- Yuka Sato
    Ladies Bronze- Oksana Baiul


    Nagano Olympics

    Pairs Gold- Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze
    Pairs Silver- Woetzel and Steuer
    Pairs Bronze- Kazakova and Dmitriev


    Mens Gold- Elvis Stojko
    Mens Silver- Ilia Kulik
    Mens Bronze- Todd Eldredge


    Ladies Gold- Tara Lipinski
    Ladies Silver- Michelle Kwan
    Ladies Bronze- Maria Butyrskaya


    Salt Lake City Olympics

    Pairs Gold- Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze
    Pairs Silver- Sale and Pelletier
    Pairs Bronze- Shen and Zhao


    Mens Gold- Alexei Yagudin
    Mens Silver- Evgeni Plushenko
    Mens Bronze- Timothy Goebel


    Ladies Gold- Michelle Kwan
    Ladies Silver- Irina Slutskaya
    Ladies Bronze- Sarah Hughes


    Turin(0) Olympics

    Pairs Gold- Totmianina and Marinin
    Pairs Silver- Shen and Zhao
    Pairs Bronze- Zhangs


    Mens Gold- Evgeni Plushenko
    Mens Silver- Stephane Lambiel
    Mens Bronze- Jeffrey Buttle


    Ladies Gold- Irina Slutskaya
    Ladies Silver- Shizuka Arakawa
    Ladies Bronze- Sasha Cohen


    Vancouver Olympics


    Pairs Gold- Shen and Zhao
    Pairs Silver- Savchenko and Szolkowy
    Pairs Bronze- Kavaguti and Smirnov


    Mens Gold- Stephane Lambiel
    Mens Silver- Daisuke Takahashi
    Mens Bronze- Evgeni Plushenko


    Ladies Gold- Yu-Na Kim
    Ladies Silver- Mao Asada
    Ladies Bronze- Joannie Rochette

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    I agree with the 98-2010 placements but for Albertiville I'm surprised so many have Yamaguchi ahead of Harding if both went clean. Did we forget 91 nats and SA where Harding went clean and won. I'd say if all went clean there it'd be:
    1. Ito-with 2 3A's and one in combo possibly. (3A/3T or 3A/2t)
    2. Harding
    3. Yamaguchi

    For Lillehammer Kerrigan would win over Chen, because Chen was never favored. Not sure who'd win Bronze between Baiul or Sato, but I'd give the edge to Baiul though since the judges loved her. If she went clean she might beat Chen, even with no real combinations (Like 93 worlds).

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    Chen was never beating a clean Kerrigan or Baiul at the 94 Olympics. I have no idea why anyone thinks that. I dont think Chen would have even won the bronze at the 94 Olympics if all were clean. At the 93 Worlds she was totally clean and only got the bronze (behind Baiul and Bonaly) since Kerrigan and Josee Chouinard both had major meltdowns right after her. Just based on judges preference I would say Kerrigan, Baiul, Sato, and Bonaly as the top 4 in some order at the 94 Olympics if all were clean, with Baiul and Kerrigan probably the top 2. Baiul had more mistakes than Kerrigan and beat her as it was, so I dont know why people think even a clean Kerrigan would have beaten her if she were also clean.

    Harding did beat Yamaguchi a few times when she was close with her triple axel but Yamaguchi was not clean on those occasions. It is true Harding was almost certain to beat Kristi if she skated clean with the triple axel because Kristi was almost certain to miss the triple salchow everytime. However in a purely hypothetical Kristi also skated cleanly, including the triple salchow, I am not sure if the judges would place Harding ahead. Midori probably, Tonya much less sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lnt175 View Post
    I agree with the 98-2010 placements but for Albertiville I'm surprised so many have Yamaguchi ahead of Harding if both went clean. Did we forget 91 nats and SA where Harding went clean and won. I'd say if all went clean there it'd be
    But Kristi was not perfect at those competitions.
    Really, if we consider Kristi's best possible performance (1992 US Nats LP if she had landed the 3Lz/3T combo), she would have won against Tonya, and probably Midori, IMO.

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    A healthy Browning would have won the gold easily in Albertville and had he skated his best, Lillehammar too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WildRose View Post
    A healthy Browning would have won the gold easily in Albertville and had he skated his best, Lillehammar too.
    Everyone didnt skate their best at those competitions (granted he might have won both even if everyone had).

    Many people seem to be projecting scenarios though only their favorites skate their best and the rest of the competition was as was, or what would be expected. In reality clean doesnt happen often in figure skating, apart from dance and even not in dance so much anymore. In reality to how skating competitions pan out on a typical day there are probably 3-4 people on average who would win most of the time skating cleanly (sometimes more).

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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    whole post[/b]


    Wow those are almost exactly mine. Was that a mistake or did we really just agree that much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lnt175 View Post
    I agree with the 98-2010 placements but for Albertiville I'm surprised so many have Yamaguchi ahead of Harding if both went clean. Did we forget 91 nats and SA where Harding went clean and won. I'd say if all went clean there it'd be:
    1. Ito-with 2 3A's and one in combo possibly. (3A/3T or 3A/2t)
    2. Harding
    3. Yamaguchi

    For Lillehammer Kerrigan would win over Chen, because Chen was never favored. Not sure who'd win Bronze between Baiul or Sato, but I'd give the edge to Baiul though since the judges loved her. If she went clean she might beat Chen, even with no real combinations (Like 93 worlds).

    Sato if she did her 94 Olympic LP or 94 Worlds LP and combined it with a clean SP could beat anyone. Josee Choinord with her 94 Canadians performances also could win Gold. Kerrigan and Baiul are definitely in there, and Bonaly too. Remember Bonaly beat Baiul for European gold before Games and Baiul skate more good there than at the Games in Lillehammer. Chen probably 5th to 7th if all skate cleanly though, judges dont like her much. The only time of her career Chen was on top without others mistakes was 1996, even her World title in 95 was only Bobek, Bonaly, and Markova making mistakes.


    Judges dont like Harding's artistry. Didnt she get some 5.2s and 5.3s for artistic impression at the Albertville Olympics. Even Ito the other jumper always got 5.7s and 5.8s atleast. So she couldnt beat or Midori or Kristi even with the triple axel, atleast not a really good Kristi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanoverrated View Post
    Wow those are almost exactly mine. Was that a mistake or did we really just agree that much.
    Yes, we are in agreement over many.

    For those claiming Browning would have had a cakewalk winning over Petrenko if both skated cleanly, I say . Viktor did all the triples, even the 3Lutz, which was not Kurt's friend. Also, Vik regularly did 3Axel+3toe combination with more consistency than Kurt. I liked the style of both Browning's story telling and Petrenko's classical charisma, but in a hypothetical scenario where both execute cleanly with their planned content, I think Viktor's greater difficulty wins out. Viktor's speed (his speed in '92 was phenomenal), easy glide, attention to details (watch his fingers and hands accentuate the music) and artistry (he used his entire body extremely well to interpret the music with wonderful choreography and he played and performed to the crowd and the judges in a very extroverted way) were competitive with Kurt's too. Plus, Vik had the added reputation of being Olympic bronze medalist going into 1992 and reigning Olympic champion going into 1994. The Olympics was never Kurt's friend, unfortunately.
    Last edited by museksk8r; 08-29-2013 at 12:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanoverrated View Post
    Sato if she did her 94 Olympic LP or 94 Worlds LP and combined it with a clean SP could beat anyone. Josee Choinord with her 94 Canadians performances also could win Gold. Kerrigan and Baiul are definitely in there, and Bonaly too. Remember Bonaly beat Baiul for European gold before Games and Baiul skate more good there than at the Games in Lillehammer. Chen probably 5th to 7th if all skate cleanly though, judges dont like her much. The only time of her career Chen was on top without others mistakes was 1996, even her World title in 95 was only Bobek, Bonaly, and Markova making mistakes.


    Judges dont like Harding's artistry. Didnt she get some 5.2s and 5.3s for artistic impression at the Albertville Olympics. Even Ito the other jumper always got 5.7s and 5.8s atleast. So she couldnt beat or Midori or Kristi even with the triple axel, atleast not a really good Kristi.
    Honestly I would have alot of skaters over Yamaguchi if all went clean, but I'm sure the judges would not. Ito is almost 100 % up to 1992 (with the 3A), but Yamagchi never lost to Kerrigan, Sato, Chouinard etc as an amatuer. After 1990 worlds the only 2 skaters who were able to beat Kristi were Ito and Harding, if they were on, and she missed her sal.
    The judges were unduly harsh imo on Ito and Harding on presentation marks in their early years. They were nowhere near as bad as most judges seemed to score them, in fact they are the only 2 who scored 6.0 tech for women, but their artistic impression marks always went down. Ito in 88 gave an incredible performance but her marks were not totally reflective of that, even while placing top 3 in that segment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    For those claiming Browning would have had a cakewalk winning over Petrenko if both skated cleanly, I say . Viktor did all the triples, even the 3Lutz, which was not Kurt's friend. Also, Vik regularly did 3Axel+3toe combination with more consistency than Kurt. I liked the style of both Browning's story telling and Petrenko's classical charisma, but in a hypothetical scenario where both execute cleanly with their planned content, I think Viktor's greater difficulty wins out. Viktor's speed (his speed in '92 was phenomenal), easy glide, attention to details (watch his fingers and hands accentuate the music) and artistry (he used his entire body extremely well to interpret the music with wonderful choreography and he played and performed to the crowd and the judges in a very extroverted way) were competitive with Kurt's too. Plus, Vik had the added reputation of being Olympic bronze medalist going into 1992 and reigning Olympic champion going into 1994. The Olympics was never Kurt's friend, unfortunately.
    Kurt won his 3rd World Championship in 1991 with 3 triple/triple combinations in his long program. His program also included a planned quad (which he turned into a triple). Had he not been seriously injured going into the 1992 Olympics those elements would have been in his Olympic program and Viktor would not have been able to compete technically because he didn't have the combinations or a quad.
    By the 1994 Olympics Kurt had began to focus on artistry, winning his 4th World gold in 1993 with Casablanca. The judges loved Casablanca - had he been able to skate a clean short and long program, I believe he would have won.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanoverrated View Post
    Turin(0) Olympics

    Mens Gold- Plushenko

    Mens Silver- Lambiel

    Mens Bronze- Buttle same as podium was even if everyone skate better.
    If he had skated cleanly, Joubert would've been on the podium here for sure. A year later he won everything he enetered and he medaled at Worlds in Calgary. He was a real medal contender back then - if clean that is, of course.

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    Joubert would never beat a clean Lambiel from 2005 onwards. So that leaves bronze as only possible medal. At Trophee French that year on Joubert's home ice, Buttle skate long skate with more mistakes than Joubert, Joubert land his quad, and Buttle still place above. Joubert do not have smart jump layouts, does not get high PCS, and does not have strong spins, so that enough probably for quadless Jeff to beat him, and if not Takahashi who back then already have the quad and good package skating.

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    Joubert was far from clean at the 2005 TEB. No falls, but he did not do any of the 4-3 combinations which he had planned. Neither of them was clean at that event. I'd say a clean Joubert did have a great shot at beating a clean Buttle. Just my guess, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mia joy View Post
    If he had skated cleanly, Joubert would've been on the podium here for sure. A year later he won everything he enetered and he medaled at Worlds in Calgary. He was a real medal contender back then - if clean that is, of course.
    Had Joubert skated cleanly in Turino he would have easily won a medal in the splatfest event. Had everyone gone cleanly though, maybe not, after Plushenko and maybe Lambiel there were a bunch of people about equal if all went clean. Had the Olympics been in 2004 or 2005 yes he probably does for sure.

    Joubert dominated the 2006-2007 season mostly because of his consistency. He was rock solid all year, while nobody else was. None of the men of that era other than Plushenko are consistent so for a half dozen or more of them clean skates ensure medals and titles virtually. It wasnt because his level of skating was unbeatable though. He won Worlds being only 3rd in the LP. He went conservative a bit, but Lambiel had major mistakes, and Takahashi didnt even make his only quad try cleanly, and both still easily beat him in the LP. He has also improved his skating in many ways, was trying 3 quads in a couple of events, had more momentum which gave him higher marks. Too remember Plushenko wasnt even around anymore, while Lambiel, Buttle, Weir, and many others were having bad years.

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    Some random thoughts

    92 ladies - I do think Ito and Harding would've beaten Yamaguchi if all were clean; I think international judges liked Harding more than national judges did and Harding would've been the top American finisher had all been clean at Albertville.

    94 ladies - (1) Baiul; (2) Kerrigan; (3) Lu. Would NOT agree, but I think this is what the judges would've done! They were willing to put a flawed Baiul above a mostly clean Kerrigan as it was ...

    98 ladies - 1 - 2 may have flipped, but how does one define clean? If MK had been faster like at Nationals and had a smooth landing out of her 3flip, would that have done it against Lipinski? How about if her toe was fine all season and she did a clean 3t-3t instead of two 3loops? Would the judges have looked upon a 3-3 with greater admiration despite it being a simpler 3-3? Another intriguing point is Szewczenko clean and inspired a la '97 Grand Series Final? Would that have been enough to hold off a clean Bute or clean Slute?

    02 ladies - (1) Kwan; (2) Slute; but having trouble choosing between Cohen and Hughes for 3. Cohen was attempting a 3z-3t and the USFSA as well as international judges liked her. I remember being surprised at how high the judges placed Cohen at SLC despite no previous World appearances, so clean Cohen might have medalled.

    06 ladies - tough! (1) Slute; (2) Arakawa; (3) Cohen. I'm not 100% sure about 1 - 2 but Slute was steamrolling the competition most of the season and had done a 3-3-2. Her jumps were better rotated than in the past and she worked the new CoP system the best. Arakawa IMO was better aesthetically but she had UR issues and had trouble with clean 3-3s which would've been necessary to beat Slute. Judges liked Cohen, but Slute and Arakawa having clean skates would've relegated her to 3rd, but solidly 3rd against Ando and Suguri ,et al.

    10 ladies - It was what it was. Kim was clean already and way out of reach of Asada and Rochette. Asada only had a wonky landing on a 3flip and popped a toe but being clean wouldn't have been enough to overtake Kim. Ditto Rochette. Nagasu was 4th while being clean. Even if she had done 3z-3t in the SP it wasn't nearly enough.
    Last edited by olympic; 08-30-2013 at 01:17 PM.

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