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  1. #1
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    Could Cohen have finally been the dominant skater in 2007-2010 had she stayed around

    Poor Sasha. She was never my favorite but she was a very talented skater with many special qualities. She had to stay in the shadow of Michelle Kwan for many years though and so barely won any big titles which make people treat her like a failure today. Could she have taken over as the dominant skater had she hung around after 2006. Kwan, Slutskaya, Arakawa, were all retired and Kim did not get her shit together until 2009. Asada after 2006 and 2007 dissapointed, never reaching the same level of skating again. So it would be wide open for Sasha to finally take over on top.

    By 2009 Cohen would have had the reputation of several big victories (perhaps) which could have kept her on top in the judges eyes even after Kim possibly became the better skater too. Reputation means so much in the sport even under COP. Sasha also is better than Kim in many ways- spins, spirals, positions, footwork, double axel, speed, even if Kim is overall better in jumps and maybe edge quality and flow.

    She could have maybe even swept the big events that quadrennial, or atleast won a couple of them had she stayed. Why didnt she stay, she was only 21.

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    Sasha would have been surpassed by the younger skaters like Mao and Yuna and perhaps even Ando. Why would she have suddenly learned to be consistent? Also Sasha was faster then Kim?

  3. #3
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    Well on TV Kim looks much faster than Sasha, but I saw Sasha skate live at Nationals a couple times and she was way faster than she looked on TV, and even faster than Kim looked on TV, although Kwan and a few others were still faster. I never saw Kim live but if she looks the same as TV unlike Sasha who looks way faster than TV live, than Sasha would probably be faster.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Why would she have suddenly learned to be consistent?
    Since she wouldnt have the shadow of Kwan hanging over her, and when she went to Worlds or Olympics the shadow of Slutskaya hanging over her too. That wore on her mentally and made her inconsistent. She felt uncomfortable having to skate perfectly to win all the time, and having bigger names overshadow her. 2007-2010 was different. Only clean performances to win big events were Kim at Vancouver Olympics, while all others all top skaters made mistakes. She would have some breathing room and no big shadow to hurt her mentally and her fragile pysche.

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    I doubt it. Cohen was a great short program skater, but the mental strain of executing all those extra elements over a 4 minute program just seemed too much for her. I suppose she might have been able to hold it together occasionally, and maybe even win a Worlds. It seemed, though, that even by 2006 her body was beginning to rebel at all the training hours, with one nagging injury after another. I think she made a good choice to retire when she did. I would even argue she made a good choice in attempting to come back for 2010. If she hadn't at least tried, she may have spent the rest of her life wondering if she should have.

    I saw Sasha skate live at Nationals a couple times and she was way faster than she looked on TV
    I don't think Sasha was ever as fast as someone like Kostner, but she did get a lot faster over the years, with much better edges than she showed in 2002.

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    No.

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    No. Her prime was 2003-2006 and she couldnt even win a World or Olympic title or U.S (apart from her Kwan-less 06 title) competing against a past her prime Kwan who could no longer attempt more than 6 triples, an ill and aging Slutskaya who was out most of the quad, and Shizuka Erraticawa. Even had she been able to stay in her prime, or even more unlikely improve a bit further, it wouldnt be good enough in 2007-2010. The technical bar was being raised to higher heights by people like Kim, Asada, and Ando than anything she had faced from 2003-2006, and it would be to the point her technical skills were too inferior to win anymore even with a clean skate, while in 03-06 when she atleast had a chance with a clean skate she could never even produce that. She might have won the 2008 Worlds had she gone clean, but she would never have won the 2007 Worlds, 2009 Worlds, or 2010 Olympics even clean, and she never could even skate clean so most often would have found herself right outside the medals probably.

    I doubt she would have ever won a major title, and I also doubt she would have duplicated her 2004-2006 level of success either.

    Lastly skating against Kim who skates with huge speed and power and great basics; Asada who can match Cohen in lightness, positions, and elegance but also has better basic skating, speed, and technical skills than Cohen; and Kostner who blows Cohen away in basic skating and speed, and also would become a very elegant and beautiful skater; Sasha would start to take a bigger hit on her PCS for her inferior "skating skills" than she ever had before, which were previously ignored due to her other great qualities which almost nobody else could close to, and that there were few great basic skaters around then anyway. That plus being an older skater who hadnt won a big title yet, the judges would start to move on to newer stars unless she really brought something special to the table (aka her first ever clean 7 triple LP with spectacular choreography very soon).
    Last edited by judgejudy27; 08-27-2013 at 12:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanoverrated View Post
    Well on TV Kim looks much faster than Sasha, but I saw Sasha skate live at Nationals a couple times and she was way faster than she looked on TV, and even faster than Kim looked on TV, although Kwan and a few others were still faster. I never saw Kim live but if she looks the same as TV unlike Sasha who looks way faster than TV live, than Sasha would probably be faster.
    Sorry but nonsense here, you said Cohen more faster in live than TV but again believe Yuna live speed just as fast as in TV You compared the one you saw live with the one in TV

    Yuna's speed in real life is out of this world

    And to answer the topic. No!

  9. #9

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    Sasha was lucky to win a US nationals and a GPF. IMO she did not have the mental makeup of a fighter. She was a beautiful skater who loved skating and expressing herself, but she was not a competitive skater. At the 2006 worlds she had the golden opportunity to win the world title, but she had a monumental collapse in the LP. She ended up with the bronze there. So I don't think she would have ever become a dominant skater on the eligible scene.

  10. #10
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    She probably could have won a few more national titles, but I'm sure she could have found a way to give those titles away too.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

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    Not with that egregious flutz she managed to get away with before 2006, or the lack of a consistent 3-3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanoverrated View Post
    Well on TV Kim looks much faster than Sasha, but I saw Sasha skate live at Nationals a couple times and she was way faster than she looked on TV, and even faster than Kim looked on TV, although Kwan and a few others were still faster. I never saw Kim live but if she looks the same as TV unlike Sasha who looks way faster than TV live, than Sasha would probably be faster.

    I go to TEB every year, and Sasha Cohen was never the fastest, while Yu Na Kim is a very, very fast skater (with Carolina Kostner).
    Plus, Sasha Cohen lacks ice coverage. She has amazing qualities, but compared to Asada and Kim, she would have been beaten by both, maybe not in 2007, but after 2007.
    The answer is NO.

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    I think an Olympic medal, a couple of World medals and a National title is probably all she could ask for, given her usual level of consistency. To think she had thought about retiring after SLC, I doubt she was ever really thinking about staying post Turin. I don't think winning 2006 Worlds would have made her stay for another 4 years, not to mention that she flopped as usual and was overtaken by an (supposedly promising) up and comer US lady at that event. Losing to Kwan, Slutskaya and Arakawa was bad enough, losing to a new batch of promising skaters would make her look much worse.

    BUT, IF SHE REALLY DID STAY AFTER 2006, with how things turned out, she probably would have comfortably stayed on top within the US, but she did not have the technical goods to take on Asada, Kim or Ando. By 2009, Kim was pulling ahead due to jump GOEs - another weaker area of Cohen's. So I think she could most likely pick up a few more world medals (most notably 2008 and perhaps also 2009), but I don't think she could have been dominant. She would have been the dark hosue veteran, much like Kwan post 2003.

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    Cohen could not have medalled in Vancouver with her usual level of consistency. Cohen would have had to be letter perfect (assuming she even remained a top skater all that time) to even hope to medal in Vancouver.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanoverrated View Post
    She had to stay in the shadow of Michelle Kwan for many years though and so barely won any big titles which make people treat her like a failure today.
    When a small figure skater casts a large shadow, there's a very good reason.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    She probably could have won a few more national titles, but I'm sure she could have found a way to give those titles away too.
    These type of comments I always see about Cohen and they are unfair. How many titles did she really give away in her career. She may have lost Nationals to Kwan in 2003-2005 even had she skated cleanly. She may have won them too, but it is hard to say for sure. So one cant say for certain she gave those titles away. 2004 Worlds seemed hers to win all along, but Shizuka's amazing LP may have changed that so one cant say for sure she gave that away either. 2006 Olympics was Irina's to lose going in, and Shizuka's to lose after the practices, so they gave that away more than she did, even though Shizuka lucked out to win with a weak performance in the end. So the only event she clearly gave away was 2006 Worlds. Yet people act like she was some headcase who would give away every easy opportunity for a big title when we can only say for certain she did that once. So the labelling of her as a headcase, failured, wasted talent, are unfair.

    2007-2010 would have seen many more clear opportunities and as she had very few of those in her career we have no idea how she would handle them. She might take them.

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    Could Cohen have finally been the dominant skater in 2007-2010 had she stayed around
    I think Sasha definitely would have won nationals in 2007 and wish she would have stayed for that. Kimmie had already gotten weak by that year despite winning WC the year before. 2008, not sure because Mirai was seen as the wunderkind and I think Mirai still would have won. 2009 was another weak field that Sasha may have won. I just don't see her sticking it out that long. Her heart didn't seem in it. Hindsight is 20/20. Sasha did not know the fields would be weak in those years. Also, she had a groin injury in 2006, and by 2010 her body seemed to be falling apart.

    As far as internationals those years, I have no idea. It would have been nice to have another American "queen," even if she didn't do well internationally. None of our other skaters did much, either.

  18. #18
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    Having seen Kim and Cohen live, I'd say Kim was faster. Sasha has better lines and extension, but the judges don't seem to ding Kim too much on her lines or extensions.
    If Cohen approached the COP the way Kostner does, she might have found more consistency and challenged Ando/Asada for 2007-2008, but by 2009 I think Kim would have taken over.
    I think I will have a snack and take a nap before I eat and go to sleep.

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    She gave away the National title as early as 2000. If only she didn't fall on that last 3toe, the judges might have gone with her instead, given how totally flat Kwan was throughout the competition and fell twice herself. It wasn't her Nationals to lose by any means, but she was in a position to win it until the final 30 seconds of that long program.

    2003 Nationals was up for debate. Kwan was very "on" throughout the competition but had limited technical content. She on the other hand had 3lutz3toe and 3toe half loop 3sal planned, and had the momentum going after winning her GPs and GPF, beating Slutskaya in Russia. It wasn't her Nationals to lose per se but she could have won it if clean.

    2004 GPF was also hers to win but alas it turned out to be the reason for Tarasova to fire her instead.

    2004 Nationals was clearly for her to win. She placed ahead of a clean (albeit shaky) Kwan after the short in 2004 and got a 6.0 even after a fall. They were setting her up to win (most probably because they already knew about Kwan's injury and the fact that Kwan was unlikely to remain as active as they wanted her to be). Ofcourse, with how Kwan skated, Cohen would have to be perfect (like at the post-Worlds Marshalls) to have a chance. The fact that she was far from perfect makes it moot but I do feel like this was her Nationals to lose, and she did lose it.

    2004 Worlds was also hers to win. Kwaqn was too far behihnd after the short and SLutskaya was not in peak form. She was 0.5 turn on the 3sal away from it. Arakawa was clearly superior in the free but judging from the scores Cohen might have done it if she was clean herself. The post-Worlds Marshall proved this point. (just a cheesefest I know but still)

    Having beaten Kwan at 2004 Worlds, 2005 Nationals was supposed to be much more interesting and she was at least a co-favorite. Alas. An off Kwan with the worse program of her life was still sufficient to win it all.

    I have mixed feelings about Turin. She entered it as a reigning world silver medalist and was first after the short program. I feel she was a strong medal contender but it was Slutskaya's competition to lose. Too bad it was Arakawa, not her, that walked through it.

    2006 Worlds was clear as day for her to lose.

  20. #20
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    ^It wasn't too bad Arakawa "walked through it" at all.




    (I know what you mean btw, just joking)

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