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  1. #201
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    *Sigh* Why do figure skating fans, among all sports fans, believe with such frightening conviction that they can read other people's minds?

    Unless one is an Operating Thetan and Tom Cruise's next designated bride...

  2. #202
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    I read the post previous to this as that Yuna looked tired and muscling it out. Surely, one can usually tell if a skater is tired/low energy. This doesn't involve mind reading.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    I read the post previous to this as that Yuna looked tired and muscling it out. Surely, one can usually tell if a skater is tired/low energy. This doesn't involve mind reading.
    "YuNa looks like she is doing everything she can to get through that program. She looks like she doesn't have the stamina. She also looks like she is mustering everything in her to compete and that underneath she is miserable. I thing she is competing out of loyalty to her country and it is taking everything she has to do it. I admire her loyalty, but it looks to me like she is paying a high price."


    This is not the first time that you have demonstrated eccentrically selective reading skills. It's actually somewhat unnerving in a self-described healthcare professional.

  4. #204
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    You don't think there's pressure from the Korean fed? Have you not been following this sport and information on Yuna over the last few seasons?

    As to the rest, FU. If you only knew how poor your timing is with your idiotic comment.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    You don't think there's pressure from the Korean fed? Have you not been following this sport and information on Yuna over the last few seasons?

    As to the rest, FU. If you only knew how poor your timing is with your idiotic comment.
    -Of course the Korean Fed has expectations. Every national Fed does. How does this demonstrate that she is driven by loyalty and miserable because of it?

    -I dislike losing my temper. That you boldly declared black to be white made me do so. If there are circumstances which made my admittedly sarcastic response hurtful, I can only say that it was meant to convey a sharp, snarky point, nothing more.

    -Perhaps you ought to stop commenting on my posts for a while? I will reciprocate.
    Last edited by Robeye; 12-08-2013 at 06:25 AM.

  6. #206

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    You don't think there's pressure from the Korean fed? Have you not been following this sport and information on Yuna over the last few seasons?

    As to the rest, FU. If you only knew how poor your timing is with your idiotic comment.
    Personally, I doubt her federation has much to hang over Kim's head. She's a multi millionaire. And its not like they have other female figure skaters to promote over her.

    I think if there's people pressuring her its familial and sponsors.

    Now I think Kim herself feels some responsibility to help promote Korean figure skating, given how many skaters she supports. Something I give her credit for.

    In terms of whether she's happy or not, I kind of agree that we don't know her mind. I've noticed she didn't seem as excited about her worlds win as previous..But she may be use to it.

    This skate in general makes me think maybe she really is in recovery from an injury.

    As for her unhappiness about her skate. Of course Kim would be unhappy with that free.

  7. #207

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    YuNa has very respectfully spoken of The fact that she chose to compete to help her country -and has said that is more of her goal than winning gold personally. I wasn't reading minds on that note. I like and respect YuNa a lot -but she doesn't look like there is much personal joy. She strikes me as very loyal and respectful and like she is carrying a heavy load for her country. I just think that is very hard to do. And she looks burdened and like its taking a toll - could be wrong.

  8. #208
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    I picked up on the lack of joy last Worlds. It's likely hard to get the same excitement and drive after you've conquered every height in this sport and won every medal. I am such an amazing mind reader, go me.

    And I've been reading here about some of the motivations behind Yuna's comeback, as you mentioned kathy sullivan, for her country. It's really not the same as skating for yourself, because you love it so much. That said, if Yuna recovers enough to put down 2 clean performances, the 2nd OGM is very likely hers. And I love her LP dress.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  9. #209

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    I picked up on the lack of joy last Worlds. It's likely hard to get the same excitement and drive after you've conquered every height in this sport and won every medal. I am such an amazing mind reader, go me.

    And I've been reading here about some of the motivations behind Yuna's comeback, as you mentioned kathy sullivan, for her country. It's really not the same as skating for yourself, because you love it so much. That said, if Yuna recovers enough to put down 2 clean performances, the 2nd OGM is very likely hers. And I love her LP dress.
    ITA

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathy sullivan View Post
    YuNa has very respectfully spoken of The fact that she chose to compete to help her country -and has said that is more of her goal than winning gold personally. I wasn't reading minds on that note. I like and respect YuNa a lot -but she doesn't look like there is much personal joy. She strikes me as very loyal and respectful and like she is carrying a heavy load for her country. I just think that is very hard to do. And she looks burdened and like its taking a toll - could be wrong.
    You are certainly right that Yuna has spoken about her commitment to help foster the further development of Korean skating. My point is that, even just on the basis of personal introspection, it should be clear to all of us that people can have a multiplicity of motivations and incentives, usually at the same time. I know it's certainly true of me. I work to monetarily benefit myself, but also because I want to take care of those close to me, and also because I seek to enjoy and find fulfillment in what I do. That fulfillment might, I hope, encompass community and societal goals that I believe in as well.

    It's certainly possible that Yuna was fatigued at Golden Spin. But there are many possible explanations for this. The one that she herself has offered, both prior to, during, and after the competition, is the fact that she is not yet at peak physical condition, including both her injured foot and her stamina, and therefore was somewhat concerned and cautious. Given these statements, Occam's Razor would lead me to believe that this is the main cause of her current fatigue. At the very least, however, the evidence that the fatigue is primarily a result of mental stress due to an unwilling compliance to duty is not compellingly obvious, in my view.

    I don't have an issue in saying that "loyalty" is a motive for Yuna. I agree that there is good evidence that it is. It is also a motive for other skaters, including Ashley "Three Spots" Wagner. But I strongly disagree that there is anywhere near sufficent reason to believe that she is somehow different from the vast majority of the human race, at least in the developed world, in holding this as her sole, or even primary, motivation. It makes her sound like some obedient beast of burden with no strong will or goals of her own making. There is almost something orientalist about this which I object to. I have been an expat in several Asian and European countries for extended periods, and my personal experience tells me that modern Asian women will not act in such a docile or compliant manner if they can help it, especially, as bek has pointed out, if they have the independent means, fame, prestige, and other levers of power that Yuna possesses.

    I appreciate the reasonable tone of your explanation, so I hope I am also equally clear in my views.
    Last edited by Robeye; 12-08-2013 at 07:37 AM.

  11. #211
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    It's just as reasonable to suggest that after winning every prestigious event and taking a break, motivation could be not quite what it was. It is widely known how difficult comebacks are, both physically and psychologically. Combined with Yuna's lack of excitement at Worlds last season, perceived by several posters here, it's just as compliant with Occam's Razor to posit that she may not have the same fire in her belly as she did in 2010. Someone who already has it all in spades, in prestige, fame and fortune but most importantly, in highest achievements given in their field, the hunger is likely to diminish. On top of that she is struggling with an injury.

    As to suggestion of orientalist prejudice: plenty of skaters are pressured into competing by outside forces (not themselves), regardless of background. That's not exactly a new phenomenon.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Personally, I doubt her federation has much to hang over Kim's head. She's a multi millionaire. And its not like they have other female figure skaters to promote over her.

    I think if there's people pressuring her its familial and sponsors.

    Now I think Kim herself feels some responsibility to help promote Korean figure skating, given how many skaters she supports. Something I give her credit for.

    In terms of whether she's happy or not, I kind of agree that we don't know her mind. I've noticed she didn't seem as excited about her worlds win as previous..But she may be use to it.

    This skate in general makes me think maybe she really is in recovery from an injury.

    As for her unhappiness about her skate. Of course Kim would be unhappy with that free.
    My first reaction to this was to agree and move on,
    Yuna is unbeatable and the best etc.

    But then i realised :
    a) That was only her second world win
    b) She lost worlds 4 times, That's double her wins
    c) She hasn't won a major competition since the 2010 Olympics, or any competition at all (Apart from Korean nationals)
    d) she had a dicey SP score

    She may have the highest skills and scores, But i'm not sure if she's "Used" to winning,
    She may have been to the highest highs, But statistically she's beatable,

    So maybe it was something else other than being used to it

  13. #213

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    When I meant use to it, I meant she's won the titles in the past. Yes I don't see the same excitement from Kim, with scores etc. However, I also saw a much calmer Kim last year. She looked in command of herself and almost was skating with a "I have nothing to lose."

    Kim stated in interviews that she's not going to let anyone put the type of pressure on herself that they put on her in the lead up to Vancover. So maybe part of the way she does that is by carrying the attitude of the rest is gravy.

    In general though I don't find it a big deal if she is mainly motivated in helping her country. I think its frankly admirable that she does care about promoting skating in Korea. I give her credit for showing up at worlds last year and helping earn spots. Instead of just showing up at the Olympics like several former champs have done.

    I have a hard time thinking though that Kim wouldn't want a Second Olympic Gold medal. It would be a huge accomplishment few ladies have done.

  14. #214
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    She won her second world title after Vancouver.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eladola View Post
    c) She hasn't won a major competition since the 2010 Olympics, or any competition at all (Apart from Korean nationals)

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr1006 View Post
    She won her second world title after Vancouver.
    I'm pretty sure Asada won that title

    In fact, Kim had to (barely) win the FS just to climb to second from an earlier group

  16. #216

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    2013 World Champion, Yuna Kim. She did lose in 2010 and 2011 Worlds.
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  17. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladola View Post
    I'm pretty sure Asada won that title

    In fact, Kim had to (barely) win the FS just to climb to second from an earlier group
    You said she hasn't won a major title since the 2010 Olympics, I would consider the 2013 world title a major one. And she's only been to three World Competitions since the Olympics ended and has medaled every time. No other skater can state they've medaled at not only every worlds but ever competition they've ever been in.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladola View Post
    My first reaction to this was to agree and move on,
    Yuna is unbeatable and the best etc.

    But then i realised :
    a) That was only her second world win
    b) She lost worlds 4 times, That's double her wins
    c) She hasn't won a major competition since the 2010 Olympics, or any competition at all (Apart from Korean nationals)
    d) she had a dicey SP score

    She may have the highest skills and scores, But i'm not sure if she's "Used" to winning,
    She may have been to the highest highs, But statistically she's beatable,

    So maybe it was something else other than being used to it
    1) Fake London. I will say no more.

    2) In her Senior International career (not including Senior B and Nationals), Yuna has won something like 14 out of 20 events, or around 70%, IIRC. By way of contrast, her closest contemporary, Mao, has won 19 out of 39, if I'm counting right, or around 49%. If Yuna does not have the highest winning percentage in what is roughly the post-Janet "modern" era, I'd like to know who does. Here is a quick and dirty sampling of a few of the most prominent skaters:

    Yuna Kim: 14/20, 70%
    Mao Asada: 19/39, 49%
    Michelle Kwan: 18/36, 50% (not including Goodwill games in this analysis, which would have slightly brought down her average, anyway)
    Irina Slutskaya: 26/56, 46%
    Kristi Yamaguchi: 6/13, 46%
    Katarina Witt: 16/28, 57%
    Dorothy Hamill: 2/6, 33% (no GPs, only Olympics and Worlds. Dorothy's time is arguably "pre-modern", in terms of competitive structure. If one adds in the US championships as a kind of very crude compensation, her record would be a more normative 5/12, 42%).

    As a general observation, even the most prominent champions have only won about half of their Senior outings. Katarina Witt, with her legendary, ferocious will to win, is the only other skater among this very select group much above the 50% mark. No matter what happens in Sochi, Yuna will retire with by far the highest winning percentage of modern times.

    So, yeah, I would say that Yuna is used to winning.


    (Note: I think the numbers are pretty accurate, but were done fairly casually. If anyone feels there are egregious errors, comments are certainly welcome)
    Last edited by Robeye; 12-08-2013 at 03:12 PM. Reason: added Irina Slutskaya

  19. #219
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    Because I heard that at LP dress rehearsal Yuna's condition looked not-good, I was relieved Yuna LP ended with 1 fall. Yesterday I was really worring.
    I wish Yuna good health and good condition-building up to Sochi.
    Last edited by EricRohmer; 12-08-2013 at 06:46 PM.

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    Re-posting from the Golden Spin thread in Kiss and Cry:
    Quote Originally Posted by kosjenka View Post
    Comments on the performance:
    ...
    Q: During the morning practice you had some problems with you elements and were approaching your coach often. What was the problem?

    KIM: Yes. I had difficulty adjusting to the smaller ice here and I made several mistakes during the practice. I wanted to immediately consult and discuss my problems and mistakes with my coach. This was a good experience for me.
    ...
    Q: Do you feel pressure about winning in Sochi?

    KIM: Since I already won a gold medal in 2010, winning is not my first goal - but to finish my career beautifully. Not to make mistakes, to enjoy as much as possible.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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