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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by KHenry14 View Post
    .....and why hasn't he ever deigned to call a woman by her last name...the Survivor honorific??? Hmmm...
    Among the men I know, many call each other by last names interchangeably with their first names. I think it stems from playing sports as kids - they would be called by the names on their uniforms because half the time the coaches and other kids and parents weren't sure of their first names.

    I think that's why Jeff does it with alpha males - he wants to be one of the boys. Either that's how he grew up, or that's how he wanted to grow up.

    So maybe blame parents of previous generations for putting their boys in team sports and signing their girls up for gymnastics and piano lessons

  2. #142

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    I feel like I'm loosing interest in this season. Maybe next week's big shake up will keep me watching.

    So if the merge does come, only three couples are left:

    Vytas & Aras
    Hayden & Kat
    Tina & Katie

    I can see Vytas and Aras totally pretending that they can't stand each other as to not increase the very large targets on their backs. Not sure about the other two.

  3. #143
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    In theory Monica & Brad and Laura M & Ciera are still in play too. Wonder if they anticipated this when they planned the season - that the players would work hard to break up the family ties so early. In Big Brother couples often get very far with little effort to break them up (much to the annoyance of those of us playing from the couch), so it's interesting to see a different approach here. Must be why we are getting a mix up next week - I feel like TPTB only do it on Survivor when things aren't going the way they necessarily thought they would.

    I did think that the returnees overthought that vote last night - putting Laura M on RI specifically to eliminate Brad so Monica would be more loyal. That's a big roll of the dice, and in the process, they've lost Laura M who if she returns will now likely happily go with whoever her daughter is with, or whoever isn't with Aras. Maybe it's because they have been coasting so far that they felt the need to play hard right away, and previews suggest that "big moves" are already on everyone's mind.

    Personally I thought they should have just gone with Laura B (and sidebar, what did she do to annoy everyone? Did I miss that last week or was it one of Survivor's classic storytelling gaps?). The other side has now tasted victory and shown they can win, and you get rid of an acknowledged strong puzzle/physical player? And one who was prepared to be very loyal, especially to Aras? Dumb move on Aras' part because even if you have a strong alliance it's always a good idea to have back up plans, especially when you are already a potentially big target for so many reasons.

  4. #144
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    I don't think they are going to merge next week. I think a tribe swap may happen, with the two survivors from RI filling in to each new tribe, and then RI starting again. It seems that's what they did the last time they had an RI season.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    I will laugh myself senseless if Caleb's tribe wins the next immunity challenge .
    And I did. And LOLd again when the first thing Brad said to Laura was "How did you guys lose?"

    Bwahahahaha. I hope they win until Brad is gone--and I will really laugh if Laura does indeed knock him out.

    I wonder how Laura's husband felt about that little massage she gave Aras. Mercy. I'll bet the ladies are her church were all a-flutter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Among the men I know, many call each other by last names interchangeably with their first names.
    I see this a lot and not just in personal interactions. In formal papers, writers refer to cited sources by last names. I have students (both male and female) who do that with male sources, but always refer to female sources by first names. None of them are aware that they do this until I point it out.

    Last year, I was in a class where three of us had the same first name, so I said everyone could call me by my last name. And while some did, most of them were very uncomfortable doing so, and I don't think it would have bothered them at all had I been male. It didn't bother me because military people call me by my last name all the time--everyone is known by last name in the military, male or female. But I think it takes some people some adjustment to get there.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  6. #146
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    Didn't even think of the military - of course! In my little universe, most men played hockey as boys, so I think a lot comes from that. Funnily enough though, among my husband's close friends there are several repeat first names, but they don't refer to each other by last names, which would seem to be the obvious solution. Instead, one of the Jims just became Jimbo and for another pair, they use their first names unless it's not clear which one they mean, and then they say their full names (first and last) to clarify. Among the women, when referring to these two men, we say "your" or "my" to each other, and the others say "Jenny's" or "Julie's." Then again, all these guys met in college, not hockey, so perhaps different rules apply

    Either way, I don't find anything sexist about referring to men by their surnames and women by their first names, or to referring to women as girls, because I just as often hear men referred to as boys. Men and women ARE different in my opinion, so I find these studies/theories/rants about how men and women are treated differently are quite often to me.

    As for Laura M's slobbering all over Aras - perhaps she forgot about the night vision cameras and didn't anticipate that they'd string it all together in one episode - I was also a bit when she said she'd been married for 20 years. Husband says "why is that a problem?" so I asked "how would you feel sitting here watching me do that and say all that to some hot young guy?" and he said "all's fair in Survivor honey - whatever it takes to win I'm with you all the way." Love him

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Either way, I don't find anything sexist about referring to men by their surnames and women by their first names, or to referring to women as girls, because I just as often hear men referred to as boys.
    I almost NEVER hear grown men referred to as boys. Only in extremely friendly groups in a kidding manner. Certainly not in professional settings, where women are still referred to as girls with annoying regularity. Heck, even in skating we can't call our female competitors women! (although truth be told - many of the stars ARE still girls ).

    I have a common first name and have been called by a variation of my last name by friends most of my life. I don't ask them to, they just do it. I see it happens to my niece, too, and her first name isn't as common as mine. I think we just have a fun last name?

    The RI challenges are more interesting than the rest of the show - no wonder it's given a full third of the episode. I was a bit surprised that nothing came out last night about how the vote went down - or at least it wasn't aired. But that vote was crazy, and there had to be a ton of from the other tribe. Seeing all the returnees giving Brad support was a bit , but I guess they figured there was nothing to lose, really, and nothing to gain by not.

    Stupid move on the part of the returnees to boot Laura M. I do hope she survives in RI. I can't imagine that Ciera would switch with her (or that Laura would allow her to), but Laura would definitely be an asset to the loved ones' tribe. If there weren't some sort of shakeup coming that would be pretty awesome.

    Wow, that tribe really loathes Laura B. I mean, based on the little we saw last night, her strategizing is pretty ham-fisted and transparent, and the "oh, I'm just going to stand over here hoping I'll survive tonight" was cringeworthy, but last night was the first time they'd gone to tribal, so one would think that hadn't come up yet. Maybe she's been trying to get in with the others in other ways that just haven't been shown. When Laura B went on about how disappointed the tribe was to not be playing with the Great Rupert, I had to laugh, though. Based on what's been posted here/Sucks, I'm thinking ... maybe not so much. But Kat's rolly eyes alone made me hope with every fiber of my being that she get caught in another jackass elimination. PLEEEEZ?????
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  8. #148

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    I am enjoying this season! I have a crush on Vytas - he is so zen! I do not remember much of Aras from his first season, nothing bad, just not memborable, he is a little more noticeable this season.
    Yes poort Brad - how did you lose? hee hee
    Funny how Tyson has not sat out a challenge.
    Laura B - just uncomfortable
    Wished they had voted out Monica, but she is in the dominant alliance. Too funny they voted a girl out to get Brad out. hee hee
    Wonder what will happen with Caleb - he has a target on him now. Loved how Vytas handled him.
    My favs are Vytas and Vytas with Gervase and Aras in the mix, maybe Caleb (but his choice of Colton as a bf is a major negative). I do like Tina too. Monica can go soon, along with Brad.

  9. #149

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    The most exciting part of the entire episode was the RI challenge. I was really disappointed that Candice lost. But, I was surprised at the amount of support that Brad got from the opposing tribe. I just wonder was it really out of support for Brad or out of support for Monica.

    But what really annoyed me was Brad's apologies. The lame apologies to his tribe after getting voted out and the ones he attempted to make to Candice and John just bothered me. He did all this big talking when he made all of these grand moves and then punks out. It was strange and awkward and just weird to watch.

    I am so glad that the loved ones finally won a challenge. We usually get to see the winners enjoy some of their reward. I kind of missed that. I love seeing how people worship food after they haven't had any for days and days.

    I'm glad we got to see some of the inner workings of the returning tribe. But they have me wondering, What would have been the big deal in making the easy vote? Somehow, sending Laura M to RI just doesn't necessarily set right. The only reason that I could see for keeping Laura B is that she's a wild card because she has no loved one and no alliance. That makes her vote valuable further into the game. I don't know how Aras talked them into voting off Laura M. Even with the challenges seeming to be more balanced (meaning not necessarily advantageous to the men because of strength) there was no guarantee she be successful against both John and Brad. At some point, people are going to figure out that you have to eliminate who you want gone from and you have to deal with the consequences of who returns to the game when that happens.

    I'm not going to try to figure out what next week's shake up is. It could be anything. This week's episode was kind of a drag.
    Last edited by FiveRinger; 10-17-2013 at 04:30 PM.
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  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    I almost NEVER hear grown men referred to as boys. Only in extremely friendly groups in a kidding manner. Certainly not in professional settings, where women are still referred to as girls with annoying regularity.
    I hear it all the time, in work settings as well. Not to carry a theory too far, but maybe it's the hockey thing again - I hear men referring to each other (as a group) as boys all the time.

    Just thinking about this this morning and recalling friendships and work situations over the years, there's no definite pattern other than the hockey thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by smurfy View Post
    I am enjoying this season! I have a crush on Vytas - he is so zen! I do not remember much of Aras from his first season, nothing bad, just not memborable, he is a little more noticeable this season.
    Yes poort Brad - how did you lose? hee hee
    Funny how Tyson has not sat out a challenge.
    Laura B - just uncomfortable
    Wished they had voted out Monica, but she is in the dominant alliance. Too funny they voted a girl out to get Brad out. hee hee
    Wonder what will happen with Caleb - he has a target on him now. Loved how Vytas handled him.
    My favs are Vytas and Vytas with Gervase and Aras in the mix, maybe Caleb (but his choice of Colton as a bf is a major negative). I do like Tina too. Monica can go soon, along with Brad.
    I wonder if Tyson saw that challenge and knew he could do it with his shoulder so wanted to play and have the option to sit out next time if he didn't think he could do it. They can't sit out back to back, right?

    Caleb had me with all his talk of being the swing vote. Clearly he's not as big a fan as Colton, because that is NOT a good thing!

    Might just be Jeff and the editing, but if Tina is playing the "this game has changed since my day" card that's a smart move, because so far no one seems to be focused on getting rid of the two people who have already won Survivor, or the one who has won Big Brother (and also potentially has a "he's not one of us" target on his back, which I'm not seeing yet). Perhaps like many of us, they don't recall Aras either and keep forgetting he won

    Too bad there are no live feeds - it would be fun to see the returning players sharing stories about their seasons and other players they know or have opinions about, and to see Hayden talking about Big Brother, which has to have come up since lots of fans watch both shows.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveRinger View Post
    The lame apologies to his tribe after getting voted out and the ones he attempted to make to Candice and John just bothered me.
    Agree. When he kept saying "I apologize for ... whatever" that says he has no real idea of what he did wrong and was figuring just saying sorry would cover it. I have little respect for people who think just saying sorry makes everything all right and clears their conscience, without really understanding what they did wrong and committing to changing their ways in future.

    I'm glad we got to see some of the inner workings of the returning tribe. But they have me wondering, What would have been the big deal in making the easy vote? Somehow, sending Laura M to RI just doesn't necessarily set right. The only reason that I could see for keeping Laura B is that she's a wild card because she has no loved one and no alliance. That makes her vote valuable further into the game. I don't know how Aras talked them into voting off Laura M. Even with the challenges seeming to be more balanced (meaning not necessarily advantageous to the men because of strength) there was no guarantee she be successful against both John and Brad. At some point, people are going to figure out that you have to eliminate who you want gone from and you have to deal with the consequences of who returns to the game when that happens.
    Agree and that's part of what I meant by overthinking that vote. Plus Laura B *is* a wild card - which can be a very bad thing at merge. If they were to merge now, Laura B might easily find a home in the other tribe of loved ones who are down in numbers and need anyone they can get.

    Tyson seems to have forgotten his first season, when he was on a winning tribe with large alliance set to obliterate the other tribe at merge. But Erinn - the low man on their totem pole - defected, which IIRC was the turning point that opened the door to JT and Stephen riding it right to the end.

  12. #152

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    On the whole men vs. women being called by their last name, I can't speak for other women but I personally hate being called by my last name or, even worse, by a shortened version of my last name that is frequently used as a nickname for both of my brothers. Anyone who does try to call me one of those versions usually gets informed pretty clearly how much I don't like it. I think that Probst using last names in Survivor is kind of weird and eyeroll-inducing because it is kind of sad how badly he wants to be Brad's BFF and he is a major sexist in other ways, but the last-naming of guys is more a symptom of his sexism rather than the actual problem itself. And referring to women as "girls" doesn't offend me at all and I still don't understand why it's a big deal. I use it myself when referring to having a girls' night out or going out with the girls and I don't think I'm sexist. Some things are just not worth making a big deal over.

    On to the actual episode itself, just some random comments:
    -- Most surprising to me was Monica mentioning that Brad is a lawyer in real life. I wondered if I had actually heard it wrong because I would have never guessed it, but apparently I heard right. Crazy. I would not want him as my lawyer if his Survivor confessionals and tribal council comments are any indication of how eloquent he is or how good he is at making an logical argument. I particularly thought his reasoning last week about why to get rid of people who don't have a partner in the game made zero sense.
    -- I thought Monica was kind of gross at the Redemption challenge where she condescendingly said that maybe Candice should take a lesson from listening to what other people said about Brad when Candice said it was Marissa/Rachel's word against Brad. I don't think Candice ever said that she actually believed Brad's word and was just trying to be diplomatic now that she has to live with him.
    -- I am right there with everyone else over Caleb being so proud of being a swing vote and his "big kahunas" and was almost expecting him to get voted out soon for it. Definitely a "stupid player" type of confessional that doesn't bode well for him.
    -- Even though we haven't seen a lot of her, I really like Tina's daughter Katie...the way she just casually said that her toenail was falling off with no drama or whining and went through all of the issues made me think that she is a tough girl, even if she hasn't been kicking butt at challenges or anything. If they both make the merge, it would be very interesting to see if she and Tina team up and what damage they could do.
    -- Someone asking upthread about what Laura B did that was so annoying...even though they haven't shown much of her, I can't say that I would be at all surprised that someone married to Rupert would also be super annoying.
    -- And I agree that voting out Laura M was playing too hard, too fast and moving too early. For the first tribal council, the easy vote was probably the right one. I'm kind of curious as to how they got Monica to go along with it, although maybe it was similar to what happened with John over the Rachel vote where he realized that arguing too much about it was going to put a target on his own back.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    On to the actual episode itself, just some random comments:
    -- Most surprising to me was Monica mentioning that Brad is a lawyer in real life. I wondered if I had actually heard it wrong because I would have never guessed it, but apparently I heard right. Crazy. I would not want him as my lawyer if his Survivor confessionals and tribal council comments are any indication of how eloquent he is or how good he is at making an logical argument. I particularly thought his reasoning last week about why to get rid of people who don't have a partner in the game made zero sense.
    Family business specializing in personal injury - http://www.ckfirm.com/ Bet they get a lot of clients just on his name, because from what I can tell he's been a big deal in Florida for many years, and his family seems well established there as well.

  14. #154
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    If I recall correctly, Laura B (Ruben's wife) was an extremely strong swimmer & helped the men in the tribe win swimming competitions. I did think she had too much to say before tribal council to these returnees. They know all about strategy & alliances but it didn't hurt her in the end...this week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveRinger View Post
    But what really annoyed me was Brad's apologies. The lame apologies to his tribe after getting voted out and the ones he attempted to make to Candice and John just bothered me. He did all this big talking when he made all of these grand moves and then punks out. It was strange and awkward and just weird to watch.
    To me this seems like a continuation of his strategy to be both ruthless and "nice". Like when he got his tribe to vote out John but threw his vote to someone else. He wants to have these big moves in his pocket while not alienating people along the way in case he needs them later and not many people are effective at that strategy IMO.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Too bad there are no live feeds - it would be fun to see the returning players sharing stories about their seasons and other players they know or have opinions about, and to see Hayden talking about Big Brother, which has to have come up since lots of fans watch both shows.
    You might like Parvati's Survivor After Show then (if you can watch it). She asks direct questions and most of the boots are pretty frank. http://www.cbs.com/shows/survivor/after-show/video
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  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    On the whole men vs. women being called by their last name, I can't speak for other women but I personally hate being called by my last name or, even worse, by a shortened version of my last name that is frequently used as a nickname for both of my brothers. Anyone who does try to call me one of those versions usually gets informed pretty clearly how much I don't like it. [...snip...] And referring to women as "girls" doesn't offend me at all and I still don't understand why it's a big deal. I use it myself when referring to having a girls' night out or going out with the girls and I don't think I'm sexist. Some things are just not worth making a big deal over.
    I think it's just a matter of what one thinks is a big deal (comparing the first part of the post to the ending).

    I do get that "girls" is very much back in fashion, and has been for some time. I'm less irritated by it now than I was when - quite frankly - I was barely no longer a girl myself. Back then it was beyond unacceptable, and when I later encountered young women only a few years younger than I embracing the "girls" culture I had a really hard time with it. Now? whatevs, as you say, there are worse things to be called. But in settings such as Survivor, where Jeff always refers to female players as girls? it's definitely dismissive. Do I lose sleep over it, or refuse to watch the show? no. But I do think language matters, so I notice it, that's all.
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  18. #158
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    I have never noticed Jeff call the female castmembers "girls." Does he really? He seems to say "the women" a lot.

    The male castmembers, now, they say "girls" a lot, especially when talking about the younger women. If the older women are involved, it's sometimes "ladies."

    I do think it's funny that he refers to them collectively as "guys." He's taken some flack for it. I just read a long and snarky article about why it is inappropriate to refer to classes full of students as "you guys," and it made me think of Jeff all the way through.

    But I refer to classes as "guys." "Hey, guys!" "Wrap it up, guys!" "See you guys Monday!"
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  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    And referring to women as "girls" doesn't offend me at all and I still don't understand why it's a big deal. I use it myself when referring to having a girls' night out or going out with the girls and I don't think I'm sexist. Some things are just not worth making a big deal over.
    The "N" word (for African-Americans) and the "F" word (for gay men) get used sometimes and there are cases when it's not a big deal, especially with members of the group in question using it amongst themselves. But we have to look at the bigger picture, at what other people think and feel about various words. If we know there are some people who find a term offensive and hurtful, why not stop using it while there's another word that's just as easy to use instead?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post

    I do think it's funny that he refers to them collectively as "guys." He's taken some flack for it. I just read a long and snarky article about why it is inappropriate to refer to classes full of students as "you guys," and it made me think of Jeff all the way through.

    But I refer to classes as "guys." "Hey, guys!" "Wrap it up, guys!" "See you guys Monday!"
    I do that too when referring to a group that includes both men and women. I think it's one of those words that's evolved into a different meaning that its original form. My bet is the criticism comes from older people or those who tend to get stuck on dictionary definitions.

    Even there, the 2011 edition of the Oxford English Dictionary says: guy n. a man; (guys) people of either sex. So to the haterz!

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    The "N" word (for African-Americans) and the "F" word (for gay men) get used sometimes and there are cases when it's not a big deal, especially with members of the group in question using it amongst themselves. But we have to look at the bigger picture, at what other people think and feel about various words. If we know there are some people who find a term offensive and hurtful, why not stop using it while there's another word that's just as easy to use instead?
    I don't think calling someone a girl is in the same category. But like many terms, if it's said with hate or condescension or prejudice then it's not good; if it's said with respect and good intention, then I don't see the problem. I've never met a woman who has a problem with being referred to as a girl unless it's by some old fashioned male boss who thinks all females belong in the secretarial pool. In fact, I think a lot of women are flattered when called a girl.

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