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  1. #801

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Plushenko's programs are very basic and very empty and he is slow. Kudos to him for landing the jumps despite his numerous injuries but if judges at ISU comps give him high PCS for this...
    Seriously, what was with all the 9's? I know this was a home competition of some sort, but you'd think the judges would want to maintain some credibility. I respect his longevity, but his basic skating which wasn't that strong to begin with has taken such a hit with all of the injuries.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FSfan107 View Post
    Seriously, what was with all the 9's? I know this was a home competition of some sort, but you'd think the judges would want to maintain some credibility. I respect his longevity, but his basic skating which wasn't that strong to begin with has taken such a hit with all of the injuries.
    Such a terrible skater and to think he has 2 Olympic silver medals, an Olympic gold medal, junior and senior World championships, multiple European championships, National championships, GP wins.....all while being a terrible skater. I guess all those other skaters he competed against were people who just walked in off the street and they let skate. At the Olympics. Three times. And one of those times he hadn't even competed in the previous 4 years. Go figure.

    He and his coach have been very up front that the programs are not at full strength or even complete. All he needed here was the qualifying scores, which he got handily. He's shown time and time again that he is a fierce competitor. I wouldn't count him out until we see how he skates in Sochi.
    Those who never succeed themselves are always the first to tell you how.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
    He's shown time and time again that he is a fierce competitor. I wouldn't count him out until we see how he skates in Sochi.
    Again I want to point out he did 5 jumping passes in the second half of the program including the 3axel-3toe. In 2009-10 he was doing 3 jumping passes in the second half and in Torino he did only two! I did not bother watching his 6.0 programs to count the jumps (no protocols there for easy lookup) but given the frontloading that was rampant then, I'm pretty sure this was a first for Plushy. That alone is an incredible accomplishment for him. The steps were level 4 in both programs and the spins were levels 3 and 4. Remember this is someone for whom those elements were a rest period from the time he started training, who never knew there would be a judging system counting all the steps and edges. I forgot who it was but there was a recent interview with a coach who said she was impressed just seeing him struggle to do all those positions in his spins he's never had to do. Must be humbling.

    I wish he'd go back to the Saint-Saens LP from last year because it would be more deserving of the PCS he got here, but I can imagine how motivating it must feel skating to all the music from all his gold medal programs. I wish he'd have included "Tango Amore" cause I like it better than "Godfather."

    Honestly as a fan I was worried he would skate here and be like 50 points behind Chan, Fernandez and the Japanese guys... all I wanted was for him to still be part of the conversation... even I underestimate him.

  4. #804
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
    Such a terrible skater
    Only nobody said that he is a terrible skater.

    He has terrible programs. Which should receive TR in the 1-2 range and not much more for CH.

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    ^ i didnt see transitions but i saw choreo, greatest hits one
    Quote Originally Posted by FSfan107 View Post
    I respect his longevity, but his basic skating which wasn't that strong to begin with
    He went from one side of the rink to the other with two strokes in his prime time. He could hold the stupiest landings, he was holding the edge on landings for long, i used to love that. If your basics suck, how can you even come back like 3 times after a hiatus and learn new stuff at 25 +?Who learns spin positions at 30? Even Cousins at Vancouver he said he loves his twizzles for a singles skater.

  6. #806

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post

    He has terrible programs. Which should receive TR in the 1-2 range and not much more for CH.

    Exactly. And that program was just as much of a hot mess as I thought it would be, was seriously laughing so much I was crying while watching it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    A 3/5 layout from Plushy with 3a-3t and and three jump combo in the bonus? Hell yeah. Where was that in Vancouver!? Sigh.

    There's actually a nice spread on his PCS marks. From 7.00 for transitions to 10.00 for performance/execution. He says this is 80% of what he can do. I think presentation-wise he can do much better. This was basically a practice session/test skate that happened to be scored, IMO. I expect way more energy.

    Level 4 steps, level 3 and 4 spins. Even if the marks were inflated, the base value 74.13 beats Chan's at SC and is behind Hanyu by about two points (he got credit for a 4sal, but he fell on it). Machida's is much higher at 80.66.

    The good news is that he's competitive on base value and the judges like him and give him high PCS... and that is CoP in a nutshell.
    10s for performance/execution? Huh. But I'll admit I was never the biggest Plushenko fan. :

  8. #808
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
    Such a terrible skater and to think he has 2 Olympic silver medals, an Olympic gold medal, junior and senior World championships, multiple European championships, National championships, GP wins.....all while being a terrible skater. I guess all those other skaters he competed against were people who just walked in off the street and they let skate. At the Olympics. Three times. And one of those times he hadn't even competed in the previous 4 years. Go figure.

    He and his coach have been very up front that the programs are not at full strength or even complete. All he needed here was the qualifying scores, which he got handily. He's shown time and time again that he is a fierce competitor. I wouldn't count him out until we see how he skates in Sochi.
    As Ziggy already said, nobody called Plushenko a terrible skater, so no need for the dramatics. There are questions over the legitimacy of his PCS and you've stated right here that even Plushenko and Mishin said the programs aren't complete/100% - I can't imagine skaters with even the best components scoring 9's with programs that they admit aren't full strength, so it's a valid concern.

  9. #809

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Only nobody said that he is a terrible skater.

    He has terrible programs. Which should receive TR in the 1-2 range and not much more for CH.
    Only if you think transitions is judged on Spread eagles or like moves before jumps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJS5056 View Post
    As Ziggy already said, nobody called Plushenko a terrible skater, so no need for the dramatics. There are questions over the legitimacy of his PCS and you've stated right here that even Plushenko and Mishin said the programs aren't complete/100% - I can't imagine skaters with even the best components scoring 9's with programs that they admit aren't full strength, so it's a valid concern.
    concern for whom? Are you the skating police? What are you or anybody who is "concerned" going to do? Protest to the ISU?
    Those who never succeed themselves are always the first to tell you how.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    The good news is that he's competitive on base value and the judges like him and give him high PCS... and that is CoP in a nutshell.
    Thanks for explaining the whole CoP in such simple words to all the figure skating fans who have spent quite a bit of their time since this judging system was introduced reading the PCS rules and trying to understand how they are applied. Wonder why the ISU Technical Committees took the trouble to write any rules at all to begin with.

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    Everybody calms down. This was a B event, as we all know - and I'm sure he and Mishin also know- he was overscored. But you don't forget he trained on the ice at first time after surgery in May, but he didn't jump, he landed in his first 3A in July, he landed in his first quad in August. And he needs to be carefull, he was scared when he stepped to the ice at first....What do you want from him? Honestly! As some poster said his footworks are 4 levels, his spins 3-4 level, he did 5 jumping passes in the second half of the program including the 3axel-3toe!!! I ask again what do you want from him in November? So many ridiculous haters! And about his LP. I'm sure he will blow up the arena with it whenever and wherever he will skate it... This program is empty?? I don't think.. But do not want him to do a lot of annoying TRs like Chan...
    And I always say, the TR isn't the most importan part of FS. A part of PCS!!! You always forget it, if you want to bash Plushenko...
    And about his PCS or second marks, you can check it, he always received higher PCS or second marks like Lambiel or Buttle. What a surprise! I'm sure you aren't experts or judges( I know there are some judges here) but most of you are simply FS fans who believe themselves to be experts
    Quote Originally Posted by elka_sk8 View Post
    10s for performance/execution? Huh. But I'll admit I was never the biggest Plushenko fan. :
    http://www.kingonice.com/evgeni6-0.htm look at this, after maybe you won't be so surprised because he got 10s for PE if you know this. That is another question what is your taste.


    And finally, look at the media's reaction, they travelled to Riga from all over the world, the organizers were in panic because they could not handle the big interest. And look at the crowd's reaction! They weren't only Russian! The figure skating needs such a popular skater such a big star like Plushenko. If Chan is born twice, he would not be such a popular and beloved, like Plushenko. And the ISU knows it.( I don't bash Chan, this is fact. )
    Last edited by lala; 11-10-2013 at 09:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChelleC View Post
    Exactly. And that program was just as much of a hot mess as I thought it would be, was seriously laughing so much I was crying while watching it.
    It's funny, isn't it? If it were any other skater that you wrote this about, people would be screaming blue bloody murder and calling you out on how utterly nasty this comment is.

    But because it's Plushenko, it's apparently okay.


    Jealousy. Gotta love it, don't you.

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    I think part of the problem of his 'terrible' program is that we do not have good video to begin with. All you have now is film from one angle no matter how good that angle is. The first video I watched did not give me great impression for his LP, but second one is way better. Of course for some people Plushenko's program maybe never be a good one, but terrible? Again maybe yes for some people. It is very subjective, isn't it.

    To watch Plushenko skating live is totally different from watching it via any video. The energy he projects is just incredible. So for all those high second marks (let us leave TR aside) it is coming from judges watch him skating live and that is not at all surprising. FS is a performing art and Plushenko is no doubt a great performer with incredible charisma on ice.

    There are still a lot of work to do for him to be truly competitive in Sochi and he knows it.

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    Serafima Sakhanovich won Volvo Open Cup in Latvia. Her score is pretty high. She must have skated really well because she is nearly 60 points ahead from the second place. It seems that she has found her balance again after the growth spur! Well done, Serafima!!!!!

  17. #817
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    It's funny, isn't it? If it were any other skater that you wrote this about, people would be screaming blue bloody murder and calling you out on how utterly nasty this comment is.

    But because it's Plushenko, it's apparently okay.


    Jealousy. Gotta love it, don't you.
    No my dear. That particular comment is expressing exactly how the poster was responding to the program, something that everyone on this board does at one point or another; it is not an "utterly nasty" comment. Perhaps your particular fandom of the skater involved makes you see it more as such than it is meant to be.

    And truly, my not "appreciating" all of the finer points of Plushenko has nothing to do with jealousy. I have never been a Plushenko fan, even when I didn't have other male skater favorites (and as I've said, I greatly respect his longevity, his work ethic, his tenacity, etc). I've seen him live, and still never became a fan, and still never felt the "aura" and power of him as a skater. Lambiel, Takahashi, absolutely. It's a matter of a difference of opinion, and as far as I know, that is allowed in this sport. And that is one of the beautiful things of this sport; it is one of the few that allows for different enjoyments for different people.

    So no, I'm not jealous of Plushenko's staying power, his mastery on this ice, or his (questionable, like some others) PCS. I just have a preference for other, different quality skaters.
    I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.~W. C. Fields

  18. #818
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moka-Ananas View Post


    I don't get the panic around Plushenko's program or marks. It was an international B, his skating was pretty good, a lot of people were very excited to see him and the event became a Plushenkofest.
    The program is not ready, both Plushenko and Mishin said it. If some posters here don't like it that's fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey View Post
    No my dear. That particular comment is expressing exactly how the poster was responding to the program, something that everyone on this board does at one point or another; it is not an "utterly nasty" comment. Perhaps your particular fandom of the skater involved makes you see it more as such than it is meant to be.

    And truly, my not "appreciating" all of the finer points of Plushenko has nothing to do with jealousy. I have never been a Plushenko fan, even when I didn't have other male skater favorites (and as I've said, I greatly respect his longevity, his work ethic, his tenacity, etc). I've seen him live, and still never became a fan, and still never felt the "aura" and power of him as a skater. Lambiel, Takahashi, absolutely. It's a matter of a difference of opinion, and as far as I know, that is allowed in this sport. And that is one of the beautiful things of this sport; it is one of the few that allows for different enjoyments for different people.

    So no, I'm not jealous of Plushenko's staying power, his mastery on this ice, or his (questionable, like some others) PCS. I just have a preference for other, different quality skaters.
    Hm. You can be such a normal and logical poster, but you can not fool me. Yes, you aren't a fan of Plushenko.. but the big hater..I received from you cca 3-4 negative reputations, those were very rude! because I defended Plush or because I wrote some facts..

    I understand that different people have different tastes, but I do not understand the hatred .. Plushenko is a sportman... one of the greatests..so I don't understand, I could never hate an athlete...
    Last edited by lala; 11-10-2013 at 07:18 PM.

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    Perhaps the hatred isn't for the athlete, but for some of the batshit crazy fans....
    I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.~W. C. Fields

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