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  1. #861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justathoughtabl View Post
    I'm having trouble understanding the differences between Kurt, Brian, and Johnny's positions and why Johnny's is so much more objectionable. All say we should not boycott. All say the athletes should come first. All say it's important for gay people to be who they are. How is Johnny, who is working for NBC, putting money and sport first any more than Kurt, who is working for the CBC? Johnny has come under much more scrutiny, perhaps in part because he has been asked about it more. Brian Boitano has recently come into criticism as well. It seems these guys would have been better off being silent, and that's a shame.
    Brian Boitano didn't make money and a Z-list career of being a 'gay rebel.'

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    I don’t care what people assume about me, whether or not I am gay or straight. Ultimately I think it has no baring on the conversation
    That's kind of an unfortunate misspelling of "bearing".....
    Who wants to watch rich people eat pizza? They must have loved that in Bangladesh. - Randy Newman on the 2014 Oscars broadcast

  3. #863
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    I'm missing where Johnny was a "gay rebel." Rebel against what? Brian has two TV shows. Is he not also a Z-lister?

    I don't mean to make a big deal of this. I'm just tired of the vitriol over people not being the right kind of activist, the right kind of gay, the right kind of public figure. I think Johnny and Brian would both be more admirable if they'd step up and do more activism, but in my opinion the anger directed at one or both of them is just uncalled for.

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    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4100754.html

    Mikhail Baryshnikov Slams Russia's 'Gay Propaganda' Law
    Posted: 10/15/2013 11:10 am EDT

    "My life has been immensely enriched by gay mentors, colleagues and friends and any discrimination and persecution of gay people is unacceptable," Baryshnikov, 65, said. "Equal treatment of people is a basic right and it is sad that we still have to even speak about this in [the] 21st century."
    Misha's statement: http://www.nomorefearfoundation.org/...aryshnikov.jpg

    Foundation link: http://www.nomorefearfoundation.org/
    Last edited by dardar1126; 01-17-2014 at 07:23 AM.

  5. #865

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    Quote Originally Posted by Justathoughtabl View Post
    I'm having trouble understanding the differences between Kurt, Brian, and Johnny's positions and why Johnny's is so much more objectionable. All say we should not boycott. All say the athletes should come first. All say it's important for gay people to be who they are. How is Johnny, who is working for NBC, putting money and sport first any more than Kurt, who is working for the CBC? Johnny has come under much more scrutiny, perhaps in part because he has been asked about it more. Brian Boitano has recently come into criticism as well. It seems these guys would have been better off being silent, and that's a shame.
    I totally agree. Weir has always been unfiltered so I don't know why anyone is shocked that he has been voicing his opinions. And it amazes me how some of my friends, on other skating forums, can be celebrating those who made the Olympic team while at the same time advocating a boycott. Can't have it both ways.

  6. #866
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justathoughtabl View Post
    I'm missing where Johnny was a "gay rebel." Rebel against what? Brian has two TV shows. Is he not also a Z-lister?

    I don't mean to make a big deal of this. I'm just tired of the vitriol over people not being the right kind of activist, the right kind of gay, the right kind of public figure. I think Johnny and Brian would both be more admirable if they'd step up and do more activism, but in my opinion the anger directed at one or both of them is just uncalled for.
    Boitano has always kept his sexuality private. He did not use it in order to bring attention to himself and again media coverage. Weir did. This makes him a hypocrite.

  7. #867
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    Boitano came out in an incredibly public manner timed exactly for media coverage. He absolutely called attention to himself by the way he did it. This isn't a bad thing, but he hasn't always kept his sexuality private; it has just been private until recently. If it was "always" private, we wouldn't be talking about it right now.

    I don't remember what Weir did to 'announce' himself; because I don't think people needed it announced. I actually remember Weir used to get ragged on for NOT publically saying he was gay. He is damned if he does or damned if he doesn't.

  8. #868
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Boitano has always kept his sexuality private. He did not use it in order to bring attention to himself and again media coverage. Weir did. This makes him a hypocrite.
    What does this mean? Good for Brian for being closeted for so long? The way this sounds, it's better for LGBTs to stay silent. And in what way did Johnny use his sexuality to bring attention to himself?

  9. #869
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    I don't remember what Weir did to 'announce' himself; because I don't think people needed it announced. I actually remember Weir used to get ragged on for NOT publically saying he was gay. He is damned if he does or damned if he doesn't.
    He wrote a memoir (which a lot of people do) and discussed his life, which includes his love life (which a lot of people do). That's how he "came out," if you want to call it that. But it really was more about when he realized he was gay and when he first fell in love. It wasn't "Hey everyone, I'm gay!"

  10. #870
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justathoughtabl View Post
    He wrote a memoir (which a lot of people do) and discussed his life, which includes his love life (which a lot of people do). That's how he "came out," if you want to call it that. But it really was more about when he realized he was gay and when he first fell in love. It wasn't "Hey everyone, I'm gay!"
    His whole life is "Hey everyone, I'm gay" and that's a good thing and the way he has wanted it.

    I don't think Johnny has said everything all that well through the Sochi stuff, but I think he's a target just because he makes himself so visible. Its unfortunate that people spend so much time on him when he's not the issue, the Russian anti-gay situation is.
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  11. #871
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justathoughtabl View Post
    What does this mean? Good for Brian for being closeted for so long? The way this sounds, it's better for LGBTs to stay silent. And in what way did Johnny use his sexuality to bring attention to himself?
    It means that Weir made an issue of sexuality when it suited him but he now pretends it is not an issue at all, when it doesn't.
    Last edited by Ziggy; 01-17-2014 at 04:02 PM.

  12. #872
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRidge View Post
    His whole life is "Hey everyone, I'm gay" and that's a good thing and the way he has wanted it.

    I don't think Johnny has said everything all that well through the Sochi stuff, but I think he's a target just because he makes himself so visible. Its unfortunate that people spend so much time on him when he's not the issue, the Russian anti-gay situation is.
    That's how I feel. I wish he had been a bit more articulate on the issue (despite most fans thinking he's so articulate, he doesn't always express things in the most graceful way, leaving a lot to interpretation, quotes out of context, etc-- and I say that as a fan), but he has been made a scapegoat, and it's ridiculous. If he was less visible, he wouldn't be as much of a target. On the other hand, he wouldn't have inspired all the people he has inspired. The activists that have gone after him...their heart is in the right place in fighting this law, but they are really misguided in going after LGBTs who have opinions and approaches that differ from their own.

  13. #873
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justathoughtabl View Post
    That's how I feel. I wish he had been a bit more articulate on the issue (despite most fans thinking he's so articulate, he doesn't always express things in the most graceful way, leaving a lot to interpretation, quotes out of context, etc-- and I say that as a fan), but he has been made a scapegoat, and it's ridiculous. If he was less visible, he wouldn't be as much of a target. On the other hand, he wouldn't have inspired all the people he has inspired. The activists that have gone after him...their heart is in the right place in fighting this law, but they are really misguided in going after LGBTs who have opinions and approaches that differ from their own.
    well said. Unfortunately fighting among allies is all too common in political activism.

    The thing for Johnny is that he's conflicted because of his attachment to Russia. I think he's been kind of defensive about it, which I understand but I think has irked people. Russia has a great culture which is especially important to a skater so its painful to see the country look so bad over the anti-gay situation. For a lot of people in the gay rights community that may be completely out of the realm of their understanding.
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  14. #874
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    It's true that Weir used sexual orientation/sexuality for personal benefit. He hinted, teased, and played with it for a bit (which conveniently helped him get major media attention) and then delayed his actual public coming out until the book. The media ran with stories about him coming out which was certainly good timing for sales. To be honest, I don't think he should be given credit for coming out publicly before the book release no matter how flamboyant he was in interviews and on his show.

    Re: sochi debate. He has the right to make money off his gayness, but others have the right to criticize him for only seeming to care about these issues when it helps his bottom line.

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    Everyone has the right to do what they think is best for them, in a given stituation and at a given time. Earlier this week Boitano gave a very interesting talk in NYC on developing focus and self-discipline. After the event was disrupted (in a non-violent way) by Queer Nation, BB admitted coming out publically was outside of his comfort zone, something he never thought he would do.

    About not speaking out more forcefully against Putin, he said, “Just getting off the plane and being an out, gay male in Russia says volumes. It’s not like Putin is not going to understand or notice.” That's Boitano's way; JW has a different way.

    It's sad, to me anyway, that BB and JW are being so heavily criticized by the gay community -- Boitano in a very, very harsh way. Reminds me of coming up as a woman on Wall Street; there were times women would just tear each other apart and pick on each others' bones, while men laughed at them.

  16. #876
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    I think the what irks many about Weir are the actual comments he stated. He would still be criticized (as Boitano is apparently) with this position, but his public rationalizations, misunderstanding or dismissiveness over the gravity of the law, and his stubborn support of all things Russia (which is great because Russia has a beautiful cultural history) that goes to the point where he takes a stance to even support the anti-gay law, will of course spark outrage within the community.

    I don't think any group should shy away from expressing disagreements and disapproval within their communities if such discussions bring forth very real issues that may get ignored if people just stayed united for the sake of being united. The great thing about activist movements is that they are broad-based coalitions that has strength in numbers. The bad thing is that oftentimes, to get that strength in numbers, the minority interests within those communities are actively overlooked and ignored (sometimes with disdain).
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

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    Is Brian actually getting a lot of criticism? I don't understand why. What is it that activists want? By the time Brian was named to the delegation it was far past time that an effective boycott could be organized.
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  18. #878
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRidge View Post
    Is Brian actually getting a lot of criticism? I don't understand why. What is it that activists want? By the time Brian was named to the delegation it was far past time that an effective boycott could be organized.
    I follow a lot of gay press/media, and haven't noticed much criticism of Brian; just that small Queer Nation protest at his recent appearance.

    There has been a fair amount of criticism toward Johnny.

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    As I said Weir has no filter and will verbalize all thoughts. I certainly agreed with him when he called out those who were pouring vodka on the steet. Like Putin was going to change his mind because vodka, already paid for was pooling in a NYC gutter? Weir is conflicted when it comes to Russia and that is probably clouding his judgement on some of the issues. Still doesn't justify those saying they hope Weir is attacked or worse while in Sochi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by judiz View Post
    As I said Weir has no filter and will verbalize all thoughts. I certainly agreed with him when he called out those who were pouring vodka on the steet. Like Putin was going to change his mind because vodka, already paid for was pooling in a NYC gutter?
    I'm sure this protest was about bringing media attention to the issue as opposed to actually changing Putin's tiny, homophobic little mind.

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