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  1. #481
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    I think the IOC has made it quite clear that they have no intention of taking on this issue.
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  2. #482

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    Quote Originally Posted by BittyBug View Post
    I think the IOC has made it quite clear that they have no intention of taking on this issue.
    This should be no surprise. The IOC has only one task, and that is to promote sport and sport competition. It has been shown in the past that mixing anything else with sport is a disaster for all Athletes.
    Morry Stillwell

  3. #483
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    After a long thread like this, a re-evaluation is often common. For me, the title of the thread is about testing Gay Rights.

    The way so many have voiced their support of Gay Rights in Russia and elsewhere has shown that the LGBT community has in many ways passed the test, and in the case of a few gay athletes and past and present figure skaters, failed the test.

    Overall, the LGBT community has spoken up and demonstrated support and passed the "test."

    Now maybe this thread can come to some sort of conclusion or closure, as we all can agree on that.

  4. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morry Stillwell View Post
    This should be no surprise. The IOC has only one task, and that is to promote sport and sport competition. It has been shown in the past that mixing anything else with sport is a disaster for all Athletes.
    Then why bother having human rights charter and promoting things like world peace and camaraderie? The IOC wants its cake and eat it too. They want the prestige and pretentiousness of being a global symbol of harmony and peace to give it much more importance than it would have otherwise by being a mere sporting competition. However, when things get a little bit controversial, it wants to fall back on the idea that the Olympics are just a sporting competition (like anything else) and the athletes are the most important thing. The truth is that they don't want to rock the boat for its and other entities' own financial interests and future earning potential.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  5. #485
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    They don't want to rock the boat but they are stuck with the boat they got and its not just a sporting event. The IOC may hope to get away with ignoring the Olympic charter but they are wrong to do so and people who challenge them on it are right.

    Otherwise, the IOC should dispand. Then if someone wants to orgnize an international multi-sport competition that is just a sporting event and has no stated values they can do so. But that is not what the Olympics are.
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  6. #486
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    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/1...race-olympics/
    ESPN host Keith Olbermann opened his Monday show [Sept. 9 pre-Johnny Weir segment] by highlighting early signs of panic from Olympic sponsors that anti-LGBT laws in Russia could cause American advertisers and audiences to effectively boycott the games.
    Video (9 minutes): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzamkjc7r-Q
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  7. #487
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    Why would they make any changes, disband, or address the issue of any human rights in the future? Every four years, cities spend millions to become the host pick, and unless a place like Dubai is chosen, where the royal leaders can decide to foot the entire bill and build everything from scratch, vie to use public money to be used for a big corporate campaign that lines sponsors' pockets and leaves cities in debt.

    There's an Olympic glow, no matter how commercial or corporate the Olympics have gotten. Having a feel good charter is part of it. It's clever marketing, and when anything goes south -- let's say athletes are kidnapped from the Olympic Vilage and executed -- it's too big to stop, because that would be letting the Enemies of Peace and Brotherhood Win. (Only suckers like the ISU let a little tragedy like a plane crash spoil the party.) The charter hardly means the Olympics are any more devoted to world peace than any other large, commercial enterprise that might have been ahead of many corporations in granting benefits to same sex partners where gay marriage is illegal. The IOC is only interested in whether Olympic Village security is breached, impacting the "talent."

    Peope believe that Diet Coke is a "healthy option.". They get all warm and fuzzy about the Olympics despite evidence that it's a big corporate tool.

    The sponsors get the Olympic glow, which drowns out any outrage, and why would they make any decision that would hurt their stockholders, to whose financial welfare they're legally bound? If they'd be kicked out of lucrative markets by being associated with the Sochi Olympics, they might blink, but what's their incentive?

    In the end, who cares about the Winter Olympics anyway? Aside from cross-country, the winter sports take expensive facilities and/or limited locations to participate in, unlike athletics, football, handball, badminton, field hockey, shooting, table tennis, gymnastics, martial arts, wrestling, weightlifting, boxing, etc.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 09-11-2013 at 06:20 PM.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  8. #488

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    Of course Johnny has to answer his critics.

    Johnny Weir-Voronov ‏@JohnnyGWeir 4h
    To those attacking me for my stance on Russia, use your time to fight the people who make these laws, and do it with class and a smile.

  9. #489

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    Quote Originally Posted by PairSk8Fan View Post
    After a long thread like this, a re-evaluation is often common. For me, the title of the thread is about testing Gay Rights.

    The way so many have voiced their support of Gay Rights in Russia and elsewhere has shown that the LGBT community has in many ways passed the test, and in the case of a few gay athletes and past and present figure skaters, failed the test.

    Overall, the LGBT community has spoken up and demonstrated support and passed the "test."

    Now maybe this thread can come to some sort of conclusion or closure, as we all can agree on that.
    Perhaps some news hound should ask Edward Snoden how LGBTs are treated.
    Morry Stillwell

  10. #490

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    Surely Mr. Snoden [sic] knows, just like we all do, that neither Russia nor the USFSA has ever or would ever subscribe to heteronormative ideology.

  11. #491

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    The impact of Putin's anti-gay law
    http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vi...ycott.cnn.html
    Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morry Stillwell View Post
    Perhaps some news hound should ask Edward Snoden how LGBTs are treated.
    Was that your way of being sarcastic? Otherwise, I have no idea what the point of that was.

    A response article to Johnny Weir's Keith Olbermann interview:

    http://americablog.com/2013/09/freak...hnny-weir.html

    Then, just when you thought Johnny Weir couldn’t be a greater idiot than he’s already proven himself repeatedly to be, Weir actually has the audacity to claim that situation gays face in Russia is the same one he faces in New Jersey, because New Jersey doesn’t recognize his marriage.

    Johnny, the day anti-gay vigilantes kidnap you, beat you, torture you, force you to drink urine, and the American government ignores the crime because they just don’t like the fact that you’re gay, then we’ll talk about the equivalence between Russia’s horrific treatment of its gay and trans populace and the fact that Governor Christie can’t decide whether he thinks you should be able to get married.

    But isn’t that what’s really underlying Johnny Weir’s pro-Russian ambivalence about this entire issue. Weir simply isn’t convinced that what Russia is doing to its LGBT citizens is any big deal.
    Of course this is just one article that's been negative, and I'm sure there are others that may be supportive of Weir's stance.
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 09-13-2013 at 08:37 AM.
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  13. #493
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    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/op...anted=all&_r=0

    We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal.

  14. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehdtkqorl123 View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/12/op...anted=all&_r=0

    We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal.

    unless you're gay I assume... I could just die right now!


    Him and his god can go F..k themselves for all I care.

  15. #495

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    Sochi Olympics will test gay rights ( continued)

    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Was that your way of being sarcastic? Otherwise, I have no idea what the point of that was.

    A response article to Johnny Weir's Keith Olbermann interview:

    http://americablog.com/2013/09/freak...hnny-weir.html



    Of course this is just one article that's been negative, and I'm sure there are others that may be supportive of Weir's stance.



    Pretty much every article I have read has been negative. Amazing how some people seem to forget that Johnny is only expressing his opinion, what Weir says has no impact whatsoever on any decision the IOC, USFS, the USA Olympic committee or the White House makes in regards to Sochi. Weir however is the only openly gay skater available to comment so the news goes to him. Maybe if those who had retired would come forward, there would be other opinions to discuss, Someone had mentioned Matt Savoire a few posts back yet other than his wedding announcement, I cannot find any recent news on him.. He appeared to be well spoken and thoughtful, would love to hear what his opinion is.

  16. #496
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    Beating up on Johnny is the easy thing to do. So is sitting at your computer and spewing blather, which is all John Aravosis does. I don't agree with the things Johnny has said, but that's all I need to say about it. Johnny isn't in charge of Russia or the Olympics but he's just the easy target for people who are safely behind their computers and can say anything without any fear of repercussions. I don't know why anyone even reads Aravosis. Johnny has courage, even if I disagree with many of the things he has to say about this situation. Few of his critics do.
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  17. #497
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    I don't understand how the criticism of Johnny Weir is any different from the thousands of op-ed pieces that are written as a reaction to...well almost anything. Unless you're saying that Weir's critics are exceptionally antagonistic of him due to deep-seated and even internal self-homohobia.

    Let's face it, Weir has allowed himself to be the voice of LGBTQ winter athletes because: one, not many other athletes are putting themselves in such a situation so Weir is brave in that aspect; and two, Weir is promoting his brand and thinks it's a great opportunity for publicity (not making a judgment as that is how Weir makes a living). So I just think with that position, he should expect people to pay attention to what he says and if he isn't careful with how he comes off, there will be a backlash. We all know he can be flippant about his criticisms as this isn't his first time at the rodeo. He obviously doesn't mind the reactions that come with being such a controversial public persona in this niche market as he continues to seek the spotlight and has many fans who support him.

    I do see the points about how it's the "easy thing to do." I think many are also taking out their frustrations about the situation and the lack of broad support from the powers that be on people like Weir and Abbott who many in the community think should know better, but don't (if you are on a particular side of the issue). Unlike Putin or Russian legislators or the IOC, Abbott and Weir have avenues of direct communication through social media. People also know that Abbott and Weir probably care about press releases about them. So people go after them in that way. It's another way of venting frustrations, I guess. That said, I don't think every criticism has been unreasonable, even if it has been tinged with obvious anger.
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 09-13-2013 at 03:31 PM.
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  18. #498
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    I think people should disagree with Johnny and argue with his points. But in lieu of anything better some people are dissing Johnny as a person. Johnny doesn't have any more responsibility than any one else to speak out on this. I just think he is an easy target, just like Jeremy Abbott is an easy target or even Scott Hamilton. Mostly such targeting of skaters and former skaters for remarks they've made is just going to convince most skaters and others in the skating community not to say anything.

    I'm concerned first and foremost about the conditions for LGBT people in Russia, secondly about the Olympics sending a message that it is okay when they are held in Russia without protest from the organizers. Johnny Weir is quite beside the point so all the focus on him seems to show a serious lack of perspective from the people like Aravosis who are doing it.
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  19. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I don't understand how the criticism of Johnny Weir is any different from the thousands of op-ed pieces that are written as a reaction to...well almost anything. Unless you're saying that Weir's critics are exceptionally antagonistic of him due to deep-seated and even internal self-homohobia.

    Let's face it, Weir has allowed himself to be the voice of LGBTQ winter athletes because: one, not many other athletes are putting themselves in such a situation so Weir is brave in that aspect; and two, Weir is promoting his brand and thinks it's a great opportunity for publicity (not making a judgment as that is how Weir makes a living). So I just think with that position, he should expect people to pay attention to what he says and if he isn't careful with how he comes off, there will be a backlash. We all know he can be flippant about his criticisms as this isn't his first time at the rodeo. He obviously doesn't mind the reactions that come with being such a controversial public persona in this niche market as he continues to seek the spotlight and has many fans who support him.

    I do see the points about how it's the "easy thing to do." I think many are also taking out their frustrations about the situation and the lack of broad support from the powers that be on people like Weir and Abbott who many in the community think should know better, but don't (if you are on a particular side of the issue). Unlike Putin or Russian legislators or the IOC, Abbott and Weir have avenues of direct communication through social media. People also know that Abbott and Weir probably care about press releases about them. So people go after them in that way. It's another way of venting frustrations, I guess. That said, I don't think every criticism has been unreasonable, even if it has been tinged with obvious anger.
    Completely agree with this.

    Weir took it upon himself to state his opinion on national news. Of course people are going to comment on it. And what he's saying is blatantly wrong. His comparisons to NJ and Russia are wrong. There's no point in defending mis-information. If people call him out on it, I say that's a good thing.

  20. #500

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    Sochi Olympics will test gay rights ( continued)

    Blake Skjellerup is an openly gay snowboarder, who hopes to compete in Sochi. He appeared on several national news shows with Johnny as well as in some news articles. He does not support a boycott, yet he has not been bashed for his opinion as Johnny has. Just an observation.

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