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  1. #321
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    I think Lysacek said exactly the right thing--the athletes are being put on the spot because the governing bodies aren't saying anything except perhaps to tell the athletes to be careful. Lysacek does exactly the right thing to throw it back on the USFSA and the USOC.
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  2. #322
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    People are outraged and will continue to find ways to express their outrage. Jeremy was picked on because he gave the worst answer of the three. If the worst answer of the three was "NO comment", that would be the one picked on.

    I am surprised he hasnt received better media training given what some of his family do. That said, maybe he never had to learn this becuase others always spoke for him (till he became national champ). Now that he is 3 time champ, I think he should start getting used topublic criticism and learn what to respnd to and what to ignore

  3. #323

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    Quote Originally Posted by ehdtkqorl123 View Post
    Just wondering, how realistic is it that IOC will change the host country if Russia doesn't change its stance regarding the anti-LGBT law?
    Is there any other option IOC can do about this?
    The IOC will do nothing because they consider supporting human rights to be a political statement and they believe that the Olympics are not the place for political statements. They are, apparently, the place for human rights violations. But then, that's been true for a long time.

    If the IOC were inclined to do something, they would not have a lot of room to move. There isn't anywhere that could simply take the entire Olympics. Vancouver, which some people are calling for, is not an option. The housing has been completely re-purposed and it would be untenable from a budget standpoint. If they were to do anything, the best they could do would be to move different sports to different countries. No single country/location could support the entire games. And then, of course, we'd all have to hold the human rights record of the countries the events were moved to up to the same standard.

  4. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by dots View Post
    Polar opposite

    From Advocate: NHL Star Sidney Crosby Doesn't Agree With Russia's Antigay Law


    http://www.advocate.com/sports/2013/...as-antigay-law
    I thought both Crosby and Shea Weber of the Predators handled the issue with impressive sensitivity and poise. Considering Abbott is around the same age as both of them, I am at a loss to understand.

  5. #325

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    Not everyone who happens to have found their way into the public eye due to their athletic skill has the same skill to be articulate about sensitive topics? Age is really not a factor. Everyone has limitations in what they can and cannot navigate with grace.

  6. #326
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    I think that there's a big difference between being a top US figure skater and being in the NHL. Figure skating is a small insular world. Skaters aren't likely to be prepared to deal with controversial issues, though the USFSA should have been aware this was coming and helped them.

    Jeremy made himself look like a major doofus. I think the criticism of his statement is legitimate as long as people keep in perspective that he's just one skater and not responsible for the situation in Russia.
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  7. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theatregirl1122 View Post
    The IOC will do nothing because they consider supporting human rights to be a political statement and they believe that the Olympics are not the place for political statements. They are, apparently, the place for human rights violations. But then, that's been true for a long time.

    If the IOC were inclined to do something, they would not have a lot of room to move. There isn't anywhere that could simply take the entire Olympics. Vancouver, which some people are calling for, is not an option. The housing has been completely re-purposed and it would be untenable from a budget standpoint. If they were to do anything, the best they could do would be to move different sports to different countries. No single country/location could support the entire games. And then, of course, we'd all have to hold the human rights record of the countries the events were moved to up to the same standard.
    ITA. And this is why I think that what is called for here is statements from the IOC. They need to make it clear they find the law a violation of the Olympic charter and expect it not to be enforced against Olympic athletes or spectators. Russia isn't likely to make a statement in agreement with that but that's not the point. The point is to make it clear that the law goes against Olympic values. The IOC can't make Russia change the law but it can make sure the Olympics don't pass in silence.
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  8. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRidge View Post
    Saying it either way is wrong. The athletes are not guests and they don't have to respect the violation of human rights.
    Human rights are a western-white-middle-class concept that athletes don't have to agree with either.

    The fact that Russia has been given the Olympics doesn't mean that the Olympic village is a bubble where Russian law and customs don't exist.

    I think that saying: 'I personally don't agree with the law but I think that sovereign nations should be able to decide their own rules' is an acceptable statement, even if I don't fully agree with it. For an athlete, it is a very easy get out clause as well.

    By analogy, if the Olympics were in a Muslim, middle-eastern country, I would expect the athletes to respect that country's culture and dress appropriately, even if I personally think that everybody should be able to walk around naked, if they so wish.

    Of course ideally, I would like all athletes to behave like Green Tregaro but that is not going to happen. The vast majority of people lack the courage and/or don't care. Consider that we still have exactly zero competitive skaters that are out.

    And yes, we should direct our rage at the international sport organisations and not the individual athletes most of whom are probably scared of saying anything.
    Last edited by Ziggy; 08-27-2013 at 09:01 PM.

  9. #329
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    The Olympic village is a bubble where Russian law and customs do not apply. Russia agreed to that when it agreed to host the Olympics. Further I think that Russia agreed to allow athletes and other participants to travel through Russia to the Olympic village.

    I don't believe the IOC would hold the Olympics in a country that would seek to dictate how participants could dress. If this law had been in place when the Olympics were awarded and they were aware of it, they might not have chosen Russia. But Russia agreed to host the Olympics and agreed to abide by the Olympic charter in doing so. As I've said, if they do not want to do that, they should withdraw as hosts.
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  10. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Human rights are a western-white-middle-class concept that athletes don't have to agree with either.
    No, they don't have to agree with them but I would certainly criticize them, and anyone else, who think human rights are relative to culture and just a liberal fetish. And I certainly don't think that's where Jeremy was, he made an inept analogy for the relativistic/respectful school of thought. I disagree with his position and with how he put it, but he doesn't deserve all this now.
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

  11. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Human rights are a western-white-middle-class concept that athletes don't have to agree with either.
    No, they don't have to agree with them but I would certainly criticize them, and anyone else, who think human rights are relative to culture and just a liberal fetish. And I certainly don't think that's where Jeremy was, he made an inept analogy for the relativistic/respectful school of thought. I disagree with his position and with how he put it, but he doesn't deserve all this now.
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

  12. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by PRlady View Post
    No, they don't have to agree with them but I would certainly criticize them, and anyone else, who think human rights are relative to culture and just a liberal fetish.
    Should circumcision performed on children (who cannot give informed consent) become illegal then?
    Last edited by Ziggy; 08-28-2013 at 12:02 AM.

  13. #333

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    Has anyone heard of any followup regarding the guy who waved the rainbow flag at the recent World Athletic Games in Moscow? I haven't heard of any "punishment" from Russia against him.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  14. #334

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    Why are we leaving it to athletes to stand up to Putin?
    http://www2.macleans.ca/2013/08/27/w...d-up-to-putin/
    Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm - Ralph Waldo Emerson

  15. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateboy View Post
    Has anyone heard of any followup regarding the guy who waved the rainbow flag at the recent World Athletic Games in Moscow? I haven't heard of any "punishment" from Russia against him.
    He's the Finnish Minister of Sport and Culture and I doubt Russia was up for starting a diplomatic war with Finland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skateboy View Post
    Has anyone heard of any followup regarding the guy who waved the rainbow flag at the recent World Athletic Games in Moscow? I haven't heard of any "punishment" from Russia against him.
    There has been some discussion here in Finland. Minister Arhinmäki also discussed officially with the Russian minister of sports and demanded him to take care that gay athletes, coaches, judges or audience will to be threated or worse in Sochi Olys. So he did use his (not very big) power in the official way, too.

    I guess our prime minisgter and most of the members og the goverment (NOT the Christian democrat member) are very critical to the Russian gay propaganda law and will continue to discuss that with Russian goverment when possible. But I am sure that there will be no diplomatic conflict about that.

  17. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Should circumcision performed on children (who cannot give informed consent) become illegal then?
    to you, Ziggy. The anti-circumcision movement as a health movement is perfectly ok. Legislating it (along with the proposed ban on ritual slaughter in your country) is usually a way to tell the Jewish and Muslim minorities that they are not wanted. Yes, it's a cultural imposition on the human rights of the boy involved but since no-one has demonstrated that it has a major health impact on the boys, I'd argue that in that case culture trumps the rights argument.

    But I admit there's a case to be made on the other side. There is NO case for Russia's law, culturally or otherwise. If they want to do something to protect children from sex, let them apply it to heteros too. Since the majority of Russian ads, including the Moscow video linked in the earlier thread, all seem to use scantily-dressed sexy women, let them start there and make the ad ladies wear modest clothing.
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

  18. #338
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  19. #339
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    And his Olympic chances went out the window in 3...2...1...

    The Advocate just made one of its top stories: http://www.advocate.com/sports/2013/...-would-be-rude

    Now for those who don't know The Advocate or Advocate is the most respected LGBT news magazine in north America (often quoted by people like Rachel Medows, Anderson Cooper, Barbara Walters, et al.)

    So I'm going to tell you how is going to go down:

    Jeremy will release an apology through an article/twitter/facebook, and will probably come out( otherwise he'll look like a homophobe to the average person which is worse.)

    After that maybe visit some talk shows, do some charitable donations, cry a little bit, maybe visit cancer patients...well we all know how PR works. OF course nothing will be genuine, but the gig is to repair all the pr damage to his image. Then, maybe he'll be able to go to US nationals without a target on his forehead. (and by that I mean gossip and politic judging)

    Make no mistake, he'll be buried at nationals if the USFS thinks his brand is too poisonous.


    ...and that's how PR works. Thank You.

  20. #340

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    Quote Originally Posted by dots View Post
    So I'm going to tell you how is going to go down:
    You have consulted your crystal ball?

    Make no mistake, he'll be buried at nationals if the USFS thinks his brand is too poisonous.
    The US gay press could make a big enough deal out of it in an effort to make Abbott's "brand" too "poisonous."

    I don't think there would be much effect on the judging at Nationals. I do think that forcing the skater to focus his efforts on responding to media hounding rather than focusing on his skating could have a negative effect on his performance and therefore on his results.

    Is that really the best use of their advocacy efforts?

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