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  1. #301
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    PairSk8Fan, while I may have some reservations about Jeremy's comments, you've gone too far with some of your statements. Wow.

  2. #302
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    How so?

    What is "too far" when it comes to addressing the public comments and discussions of a gay rights issue by a relatively famous athlete who may represent ME, my country and my fellow citizens at the upcoming Olympics?

    Is it "too far" calling out someone for their stupidity and their lack of insight and hypocritical views on a very important issue, a human rights issue, particularly when they are now quoted in mainstream media and social media?

  3. #303
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    Yes, it is.
    In Soviet Russia, the skaters lobbychick YOU.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by PairSk8Fan View Post
    Is it "too far" calling out someone for their stupidity and their lack of insight and hypocritical views on a very important issue, a human rights issue, particularly when they are now quoted in mainstream media and social media?
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrey aka Pushkin View Post
    Yes, it is.
    If this is what you're responding to, why is it "too far?" I may not appreciate PairSk8Fan's tone, but I think Jeremy's comments are actually offensive and hurtful.
    Last edited by Proustable; 08-26-2013 at 11:57 PM. Reason: punctuation

  5. #305

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    As I am reading this thread I am writing an email to Ivica Kostelic not to embarrass me in Sochi.
    Not only will he be representing my country, but also he studies at my university and I am sick of people embarrassing me with their... skiing...
    As of March 2013 - no longer scared of TAHbKA or Andrey aka Pushkin

  6. #306
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    I didn't want to say this because Jeremy's mother might read this, but at the same time if you're not honest in times like this...when will you be? Right?


    I think people are being too easy on Jeremy. They want the media to leave the skaters alone, but that's not realistic. What's happening in Russia is too controversial that any aspiring Olympian will probably be confronted with questions of this nature. You cannot shelter someone from the real world, and in the real world the Olympic host is making news around the world for their discriminatory laws.

    The comparisons that Jeremy made were idiotic, and yes hurtful too. I mean a kid got penetrated with a crowbar for Christ sake. It's not so hard to say "at this moment I've no comment" and then end the interview and leave.

    And now that we're at it, Lysacek is another one who came across like a complete insensitive. Is there ever a time when this man sounds genuine? "I have no mind of my own, I'll let the USFSA talk for me." err...OK.

    Proud of Joshua Farris, bless his little heart, kind of turn the tables on them and threw the USFSA under the bus.

  7. #307
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    I'm also going to boycott the USFS by not renewing my membership. My hard earned dollars are not going to these homophobes and closet cases!

    (and by that I mean people in the committee not the skaters)

  8. #308

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    I'm on the line with Jeremy..it was a horrible comment. Very bad.

    But, it's totally unlike anything he's ever written before (he's usually pro human/gay rights)

    .......and knowing he has never been the most intelligent or talented interview subject

    ....and he'd just spent days in the bosom of USFSA being told not to insult the Russians

    for now anyway

    I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming he was hypoxic at altitude and blinded by the media

    lights-and said the first thing he thought of.......an example given in one of the meetings


    OK it's a stretch. I've lost a lot of respect for him. He does need to apologize, if he can find a way to do it

    without making things worse.

  9. #309
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    I wonder if it was the USFS who gave him that bad analogy. I wouldn't be surprised if they thought bringing up interior decorating was a clever way of winking to his fans who assume/know that Abbott is gay and therefore the stance of respecting the Russian laws should be ok.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  10. #310
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    Polar opposite

    From Advocate: NHL Star Sidney Crosby Doesn't Agree With Russia's Antigay Law


    http://www.advocate.com/sports/2013/...as-antigay-law


    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I wonder if it was the USFS who gave him that bad analogy. I wouldn't be surprised if they thought bringing up interior decorating was a clever way of winking to his fans who assume/know that Abbott is gay and therefore the stance of respecting the Russian laws should be ok.
    Say whut? Hon... just no.

  11. #311
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    My guess is that he came up with that off the cuff remark himself in the heat of the moment. The USFSA may have made a blanket statement about criticizing other countries laws, but he made a direct reference to not criticizing Russia. I think one thing that stands out is that he made his comments to the reporter as if he were speaking with friends, rather than trying to make a "professional" statement on such a sensitive subject.

  12. #312
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    I feel for Jeremy because athletes shouldn't be at the forefront in handling these questions. What he said was weird but I give him the benefit of the doubt that he is just trying not to step on people's toes.

    The The IOC should take more flak from the media for letting their Games getting so tainted. They are really spineless in dealing with this situation. In two weeks the IOC will convene in Buenos Aires to vote for hosting city of the 2020 Olympic Games and the new IOC President. I hope there will be lots of opportunities for the World media to grill the IOC on this issue.

  13. #313
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    Just wondering, how realistic is it that IOC will change the host country if Russia doesn't change its stance regarding the anti-LGBT law?
    Is there any other option IOC can do about this?

  14. #314
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    I have to admit I somehow missed this discussion about Jeremy and had hard times finding out what this all is about now. Well, I found it out. Am I surprised? No. Am I disapproving of what he said? To put it mildly, yes, but I believe I have no right to cast judgement on people who I don't know personally and will most probably never know.

    However, all this is a direct result of the double standards policy EU and US are so actively exploiting lately. I have some friends in EU who are not related in any way to the world of figure skating and when we were discussing politics with them one day, they both mentioned that many Europeans think Putin is a dangerous man. Well, may be this is the reason EU and US are so changing in their opinions and actions lately? Honestly, I fail to see the other reasons for this.

    I know there are lots of people out there in EU and US who are supportive of us here and I am really thankful to all the words and messages of support which I received here from fellow FSUers, but I start believing that governments do have some interests of their own. Back in 1980 USSR was a very powerful country and Mr. Brezhnev wasn't the man to be toyed with at the time when the soviet troops entered Afghanistan, but many countries boycotted those Summer Olympics still. What's the problem now? Gas? Oil? World stability?

    I am especially shocked by IOC attitude to the issue. That should definitely now become a standard, icon for the double standards and be copied and placed in a museum in Paris where the standards for meter etc are stored.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    If this is what you're responding to, why is it "too far?" I may not appreciate PairSk8Fan's tone, but I think Jeremy's comments are actually offensive and hurtful.
    And I think that it's unacceptable attacking a skater in a way PaiSk8Fan did, especially his private life, when he says something people don't agree with.

    I also think his comments were rather unfortunate, but over all he did nothing wrong; he's not supportive of the discriminating laws and he's definitely not the one who created them. He has the full right to have a different opinion from you about what should and what should not be done, and he has the full right to voice it, as long as it does not break the law (like supporting violence or even discrimination). Moreover, he's not in the position to make a statement, and it's stupid to address him with the issue; that's IOC and USFSA job and they obviously don't do it. Attack them.

    One of the reasons why the Russians are supportive of this law (apart from the general xenophobia, stupidity and brainwashing that is) is exactly this - a total disrespect towards an opinion that doesn't go with the extreme line. It's one thing to call for or support a discrimination based on race, sex, sexuality and etc, and another to object a certain way of protest that for some reason seems inappropriate to a person. If the former is unacceptable, the latter is just a matter of opinion, and attacking the person who holds it in such uncivilized and disgusting way is no much better than the discrimination itself.
    In Soviet Russia, the skaters lobbychick YOU.

  16. #316
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    ETA: And one more thing... To those who say that Abbott's career is over because of the comments and that he's not going to make the team for sure now. Do you imply that USFSA picks the team based on political views rather than skating abilities?
    In Soviet Russia, the skaters lobbychick YOU.

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrey aka Pushkin View Post
    And I think that it's unacceptable attacking a skater in a way PaiSk8Fan did, especially his private life, when he says something people don't agree with.

    I also think his comments were rather unfortunate, but over all he did nothing wrong; he's not supportive of the discriminating laws and he's definitely not the one who created them. He has the full right to have a different opinion from you about what should and what should not be done, and he has the full right to voice it, as long as it does not break the law (like supporting violence or even discrimination). Moreover, he's not in the position to make a statement, and it's stupid to address him with the issue; that's IOC and USFSA job and they obviously don't do it. Attack them.

    One of the reasons why the Russians are supportive of this law (apart from the general xenophobia, stupidity and brainwashing that is) is exactly this - a total disrespect towards an opinion that doesn't go with the extreme line. It's one thing to call for or support a discrimination based on race, sex, sexuality and etc, and another to object a certain way of protest that for some reason seems inappropriate to a person. If the former is unacceptable, the latter is just a matter of opinion, and attacking the person who holds it in such uncivilized and disgusting way is no much better than the discrimination itself.
    a) Jeremy's comments actually say "maybe." "Maybe" he disagrees with the law.

    b) I don't believe that I ever said he doesn't have full right to voice his opinion; nor do I believe PairSk8fan's comments act in opposition to that right.

    c) A lot of athletes, gay and straight, have made statements on this issue.

    d) Wait, what? Let's be clear. Jeremy Abbott stated that it would wrong to criticize Russia's laws as he was a guest in the country. Had he left it like that, you wouldn't see this vitriol. He added that it would be like criticizing the interior decoration. He has managed to dismiss the reduction of human rights for a group based on sexuality to mere set dressing. And it made his other comment ("thank god there's no boycott) sound [b]completely[/i] self-serving.

    e) Change is macro - big organizations etc. But it's also micro - and that's individuals stepping up.

    f) I don't think this affects Abbott's chances for the team in any way. USFSA has never given him favours (he's missed 2 of the last three worlds, after all). If he earns the spot, he's going. If he doesn't, he's not.

  18. #318
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    'Funny' how we now have a number of straight, macho athletes protest the laws while 'our' closeted skating boys could not put their heads in the sound any deeper.

    I know that the skaters' job is to skate and not to talk but is it really hard to deal with a question about the anti-gay law without sounding like a spineless imbecile?

    Farris, Lysacek and Abbott all gave terrible answers.

    Instead of comparing human rights to interior decor (), they could have said something like: 'Personally, I strongly believe in equal rights for everyone. However, as an athlete, I have been put in a very difficult position. I am going to be a guest in Russia and as such, I have to respect their laws. Ultimately, it's up to the Russian people - and not me - to decide how they want to run their own country.'

    P.S. Dear skaters, please feel free to use the above example answer, as long as you PM me for my bank details, for my 'expert consultancy services'.

  19. #319
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    I don't see much difference between what you suggest Ziggy and what Jeremy said. Why is it any better? So he used an analogy, well if its all about being a guest and not telling your host what to do, t hen I don't see what's wrong with talking about decor, in fact it seems quite appropriate.

    Saying it either way is wrong. The athletes are not guests and they don't have to respect the violation of human rights.
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  20. #320

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Farris, Lysacek and Abbott all gave terrible answers.

    Instead of comparing human rights to interior decor (), they could have said something like: 'Personally, I strongly believe in equal rights for everyone. However, as an athlete, I have been put in a very difficult position. I am going to be a guest in Russia and as such, I have to respect their laws. Ultimately, it's up to the Russian people - and not me - to decide how they want to run their own country.'
    Neither Farris nor Lysacek made such a comparison, and I don't think they should be lumped together with Abbott in this case. Farris, who is quite young and probably has little experience dealing with the media, said he couldn't comment or share his opinions. Lysacek said he felt that the USOC should be the ones responsible for any statements on this issue. I actually agree with him: why should the athletes be expected to speak out when the far more powerful governing bodies can't be bothered (at best) or side with Russia (at worst)? The criticism should be first and foremost reserved for the IOC and the various NOCs.

    And I agree that Olympians aren't really guests, and shouldn't be expected to behave as such.

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