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  1. #561
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    I am wondering if we have reports on how the law is being enforced in Russia now. People are speculating on what could happen to gay athletes or straight allies who speak out before going, but what are people in Russia experiencing now? How many arrests have been made under the law? Under what circumstances? There must be some information on this available, if not in English language reports then in Russian?
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

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  3. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bournekraatzfan View Post
    Sorry, i should have linked to the post i was responding to. Elvis's words were reiterated in an interview with Chris Mabee. Elvis said that a very lyrical and/or soft style of skating is not men's skating. I don't think he should get to decide what constitutes men's skating for everyone. I like Mabee's answer, calling or a more fluid definition of men's skating. Here is the post (thanks sadya):
    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...=1#post4005673
    Oh yes, I read that. He's a twat lol. Well I guess he's just a bit defensive because that's all he could do. I used to have such enormous respect for him . . . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by CantALoop View Post
    I thought the law was so loose that even speaking for equal rights is considered propaganda. But I agree Ashley's risk of retribution is small, but it's definitely not impossible.

    I also agree that gay skaters or athletes shouldn't have to come out or outright condemn the law, I'm just appalled at how amazingly disingenuous the responses were and how some skaters were trying so hard to convince us that they don't see the elephant in the room:

    Lysacek: "You'll have to ask the USOC if there's any elephants. They're there to protect us from wild animals."
    Abbott: "Ugh I HATE elephants, but it's not my place to tell them that ivory is SO last century, not to mention illegal."
    Zawadzki: "Who cares about elephants? There aren't any animals competing at the Olympics."
    Davis & White: "You know, this is the first time we've ever thought about elephants. We need to talk about this together before we'll tell you if there's an elephant here."
    Brilliant. Wish I could rep you
    Quote Originally Posted by valyrian View Post
    Oh Elvis. Here's a very simple formula I use to define men's skating: 1. Is there a single man on the ice? 2. Is he skating? If the answer to 1 and 2 are both yes, then I am watching men's skating. The end.
    This!
    My travel and adventure blog http://alisonanddon.wordpress.com

  4. #564
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    Physically and mentally exhausted but really proud of what we've achieved together. It went great!

    Around 300 people turned up which wasn't much but it was more than last year and really wasn't bad when you consider how many people are afraid to be out (or even associated with being gay) in Poland still.

    The weather was perfect, it was warm and sunny. The neo-nazis never managed to gather and pose a real threat because they didn't get the legal permission. So there were a few stones and eggs that went our way but nobody got hurt. There was tons of police and you could really get a sense that the city did not want more bad PR.

    We had a number of banners in Russian, lots of rainbow matrioshkas and queered Russian flags. We gathered signatures for the Amnesty International petition to abolish the homophobic laws and we even made a speech in Russian at the Wroclaw's main square.

    I'll share some pics when they are ready. Here's me saying a few words at the start:
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=595241713865246
    Last edited by Ziggy; 10-08-2013 at 12:21 AM.

  5. #565
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    I'm so glad your march went well. And you look fab in those red pants and that jacket.
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  6. #566

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Here's me saying a few words at the start:
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=595241713865246
    Cool look, Zigs.

    And congrats on the successful event.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Physically and mentally exhausted but really proud of what we've achieved together. It went great!

    Around 300 people turned up which wasn't much but it was more than last year and really wasn't bad when you consider how many people are afraid to be out (or even associated with being gay) in Poland still.

    The weather was perfect, it was warm and sunny. The neo-nazis never managed to gather and pose a real threat because they didn't get the legal permission. So there were a few stones and eggs that went our way but nobody got hurt. There was tons of police and you could really get a sense that the city did not want more bad PR.

    We had a number of banners in Russian, lots of rainbow matrioshkas and queered Russian flags. We gathered signatures for the Amnesty International petition to abolish the homophobic laws and we even made a speech in Russian at the Wroclaw's main square.

    I'll share some pics when they are ready. Here's me saying a few words at the start:
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=595241713865246
    Yes Yes and Yes Ziggy! You guys are courageous, inspiring, and I'm sure future generations of polish gay teens will thank you for it.

    No change could aver be created standing inside the closet, unless your life is in immediate danger or you're dependent on someone who will put you out on the street in that minute, you need to come out come out and come out baby! Nothing beats being free!!!!!

    ______

    Ok we need to talk about Dave Lease because his podcast from yesterday was OMG

    http://www.theskatinglesson.com/this-and-that-106/


    He practically ripped D/W a new one. Isn't he in love with Meryl? that had to hurt!

  8. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by dots View Post
    Ok we need to talk about Dave Lease because his podcast from yesterday was OMG

    http://www.theskatinglesson.com/this-and-that-106/

    He practically ripped D/W a new one. Isn't he in love with Meryl? that had to hurt!
    Well, Dave hit the nail on the head.

    (ETA: To clarify, I'm referring to their comments about gay rights. Dave making fun of Meryl's voice was lame.)
    Last edited by DaveRocks; 10-08-2013 at 04:02 AM.

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    I thought he was spot on, but then seeing how he gave others somewhat of a pass it was a huge turn off. I was actually expecting him to really go off on Jeremy(imo those comments were homophobic) I mean Really Dave? to quote him: "Where are your balls?"


    Otherwise I really enjoy the podcast.

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    Somewhat related article about wifi surveillance in Sochi.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Olympics.html

    ETA: Of course, the NSA tracks everything here, too, so ... ?
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  11. #571

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    It is somewhat amazing that the Human Rights issue only concentrates on Russia. There are 5 counties that will sentence a gay to death and the Gulf States will not allow gays in to the counties.
    Morry Stillwell

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    And when they put the Olympics in Abu Dhabi we'll take that on, Morry. In the meantime, the cowardice of the USOC/IOC in confronting a major, powerful member state with a lot of clout in the Olympics is quite telling.
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

  13. #573
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    Let's put that a little differently. I know you have a hard time understanding things Morry, but try this: advocates of gay rights are concerned about gay rights EVERYWHERE, you know kind of like you are uncomfortable with gays being out EVERYWHERE.

    So no one gets a pass, even when they are holding the Olympics. Gay rights and human rights advocates aren't like you Morry, we don't pick and choose. We are for human rights for all, everywhere.

    But we aren't focusing our concern regarding the Olympics on countries other than Russia right now because get this, its a really tough one to understand I know, the Olympics are being held in Russia.
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRidge View Post
    Let's put that a little differently. I know you have a hard time understanding things Morry, but try this: advocates of gay rights are concerned about gay rights EVERYWHERE, you know kind of like you are uncomfortable with gays being out EVERYWHERE.

    So no one gets a pass, even when they are holding the Olympics. Gay rights and human rights advocates aren't like you Morry, we don't pick and choose. We are for human rights for all, everywhere.

    But we aren't focusing our concern regarding the Olympics on countries other than Russia right now because get this, its a really tough one to understand I know, the Olympics are being held in Russia.
    I love you BR.

  15. #575
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    I can't read the Chicago Tribune article, but from tweets during the media summit, the reporters indicated that Jeremy and Ashley were the only two athletes to clearly state they were against the law, but I haven't seen Jeremy's statement opposing the law in the subsequent articles. I'm wondering if the quotes from him in the articles are incomplete, or if the original tweet was wrong.
    "The Devil is joining in, and that's never a good sign." Phil Liggett

  16. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morry Stillwell View Post
    It is somewhat amazing that the Human Rights issue only concentrates on Russia. There are 5 counties that will sentence a gay to death and the Gulf States will not allow gays in to the counties.
    I guess you missed all the movements and exposure countries in the Middle East and Uganda have received due to their stringent anti-LGBTQ laws. I don't know how aware you are about this issue, but there are organizations both domestically and worldwide that are working on a daily basis to address these issues.

    However, the reason why people care about this issue in Russia is because the IOC (an organization that superficially espouses human and civil rights, peace, and positive forward thinking) rewarded the Olympics in a country that has legally criminalized LGBTQ people. Even if they didn't knowingly rewarded the Olympics to a country that would later pass legislation, their actions (and the USOC which is an organization I personally care about as I am American and we act like we're so special that we can be the model for other countries to follow) have shown they have dismissed this issue altogether. So no surprised people are speaking out. No surprise that they're brushing it away because LGBTQ people are still seen as a minority whose interests don't matter.

    I won't even get into how weak your essential argument is which is essentially saying that because these countries are doing bad things as well, why single out one particular country out for it? Well, are they still doing bad things? Morry, I wish you would just admit that you don't personally think the Russian laws are that bad or big of a deal and don't understand what the fuss is about. I think that will be much more honest.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  17. #577

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post

    I'll share some pics when they are ready. Here's me saying a few words at the start:
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=595241713865246
    Great job, Ziggy! And you look cool.
    In the opening ceremony of Finlandia Trophy one of the skaters was holding a rainbow umbrella. I dare to think that it was a statement.

    I am off to Moscow for one night trip in November. I don´t use nail polish very often, but fot that trip, I will get my nails done for the Olympic ring colours. Or something like that.

    Mr. Stillwell, I, among many other human right activists, am concerned of ALL the human rights, EVERYWHERE. I am currently in Montevideo in a book fair, where people will surely discuss about the 2018 football games in Brazil and the human rights there.

  18. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    No matter where there is injustice, it is your responsibility to speak out IF YOU CARE. Well, if you can't speak up about it with regard to the Russian law, speak up about it in the skating world and your own country.

    Quote Originally Posted by B.Cooper View Post
    If there are athletes that feel strongly and want to make public statements, then do something at home, in their home country to help support LGBT rights. Go out and support getting equal rights legislation passed in their home state/country. Start at home, embrace the cause. [...] I have respect for those that dig in and make long term commitments to causes, and get out there and do the daily work that is necessary to help make changes in laws that are unjust.
    I know i quoted your post earlier, B.Cooper, but i think it is worth reiterating. I really like what you and Iceman have hit on, about how this extends to our own communities. I hope that we can show our support for and solidarity with the LGBTQ people of Russia by acknowledging the amazing activism that is going on all over the country and by allowing that to inspire and guide us in working to end oppression everywhere, and this means identifying and challenging queer- and trans-phobia in ourselves and our own communities.

    Quote Originally Posted by valyrian View Post
    Oh Elvis. Here's a very simple formula I use to define men's skating: 1. Is there a single man on the ice? 2. Is he skating? If the answer to 1 and 2 are both yes, then I am watching men's skating. The end.
    Lol, love it!

    And CantALoop, your post was hilarious!

    Thanks for the pics and reports, Ziggy! Awesome job!

  19. #579

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    I won't even get into how weak your essential argument is which is essentially saying that because these countries are doing bad things as well, why single out one particular country out for it? Well, are they still doing bad things? Morry, I wish you would just admit that you don't personally think the Russian laws are that bad or big of a deal and don't understand what the fuss is about. I think that will be much more honest.[/QUOTE]

    You use words seem to think you know what is in my head. You do not. It is truly dishonest when posts equate more than 4000 executions with the conditions in Russia.
    Morry Stillwell

  20. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morry Stillwell View Post

    You use words seem to think you know what is in my head. You do not. It is truly dishonest when posts equate more than 4000 executions with the conditions in Russia.
    I don't know where you got the 4,000 executions from my posts, but I take it that you're referring to some people's comparisons of this situation to Nazi Germany. Although I don't think anyone is saying what is happening in Russia right now is comparable to the holocaust and concentration/execution camps, what people are sort of seeing is the way the LGBTQ communities are being targeted as scapegoats and how mistreatment and violence against LGBTQ persons or those who are perceived to be LGBTQ in Russia are happening because of the criminalization of LGBTQ people (or their behavior which is essentially punishing them for expressing themselves). Some people also see how the Western nations and the IOC are either turning a blind eye to all of this or are downplaying and brushing away legitimate criticisms all for the sake of the keeping the Olympics going...which is similar (not entirely the same, just similar in some degree) to what happened at the 1936 Olympics in Berlin.

    As flawed as the comparison is, I don't necessarily blame people for making a "superficial" comparison. Anyway, let's say people were being dishonest in making that comparison. Fine. Does that make the situation in Russia any better? How does pointing a false analogy take away from what Russia is actually doing?

    I apologize for saying you do not see this issue as a big deal, but every post you have made regarding the plight of LGBTQ persons in Russia have been incredibly dismissive, snarky, snide, and curt. So I naturally assumed that you were just annoyed that people were talking about this issue at all as you don't understand why people would care.
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 10-09-2013 at 02:34 AM.
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