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  1. #501

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    Uh...Blake does short track speed skating-unless he's changed sports recently

  2. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by judiz View Post
    Blake Skjellerup is an openly gay snowboarder, who hopes to compete in Sochi. He appeared on several national news shows with Johnny as well as in some news articles. He does not support a boycott, yet he has not been bashed for his opinion as Johnny has. Just an observation.
    Did he wear a Russian soldier outfit or make a bad analogy (comparing the laws to interior decorating a la Abbott or comparing the persecution and criminalization of LGBT behavior to unequal treatment of LGBT persons)? Or was he just looking out for his own self-interest like almost every other athlete who made his/her opinion known?
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  3. #503

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Did he wear a Russian soldier outfit or make a bad analogy (comparing the laws to interior decorating a la Abbott or comparing the persecution and criminalization of LGBT behavior to unequal treatment of LGBT persons)? Or was he just looking out for his own self-interest like almost every other athlete who made his/her opinion known?
    Well said.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domshabfan View Post
    Wow, then those so called gay activists are just wrong. These skaters don't interfere with their life, they will come out when and if they to and is not activists business.
    The world would look very different if the majority of non-heterosexual people had the courage to come out.

    I've just been translating the manifesto of the next queer festival that we're doing soon [SHAMELESS PLUG ALERT] and this sentence seemed very relevant:

    '[Queer] is not a separation of - considered as private – gender and sexual identities from the social issues.'

    The private is political.

    (Which doesn't mean that I would out people who aren't ready for it. Unless you're a hypocritical right-wing politician who promotes 'family values.')

    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Then why bother having human rights charter and promoting things like world peace and camaraderie? The IOC wants its cake and eat it too. They want the prestige and pretentiousness of being a global symbol of harmony and peace to give it much more importance than it would have otherwise by being a mere sporting competition. However, when things get a little bit controversial, it wants to fall back on the idea that the Olympics are just a sporting competition (like anything else) and the athletes are the most important thing. The truth is that they don't want to rock the boat for its and other entities' own financial interests and future earning potential.
    This x million!

  5. #505
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    Just putting this here for another view:
    http://paper-bird.net/2013/09/12/que...-russia-wrong/

  6. #506

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    People say what they want about Johnny but I thought this was classy of him.




    Johnny Weir-Voronov ‏@JohnnyGWeir 6h
    To my fans, please do not attack @MichaelLucasNYC as he simply wrote his opinions as we are all entitled. Thank you.

  7. #507
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    Jesus Christ! Are we sure Russian police will be able to keep the athletes safe?



    "He is then forced to sodomize himself by sitting on a bottle, which is then pushed into his rectum with a bat"

    "We made him sit on a bottle so that he repents for his sins and comes to reason"




    http://www.thegailygrind.com/2013/09...held-gunpoint/

  8. #508

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    Quote Originally Posted by dots View Post
    Jesus Christ! Are we sure Russian police will be able to keep the athletes safe?



    "He is then forced to sodomize himself by sitting on a bottle, which is then pushed into his rectum with a bat"

    "We made him sit on a bottle so that he repents for his sins and comes to reason"




    http://www.thegailygrind.com/2013/09...held-gunpoint/
    How horrifying.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by dots View Post
    Jesus Christ! Are we sure Russian police will be able to keep the athletes safe?



    "He is then forced to sodomize himself by sitting on a bottle, which is then pushed into his rectum with a bat"

    "We made him sit on a bottle so that he repents for his sins and comes to reason"




    http://www.thegailygrind.com/2013/09...held-gunpoint/
    Yes they can. It is possible, though we don't really know, that the police have looked the other way regarding some vicious attacks on gays in Russia. They won't do that in Sochi because Russia is not interested in showing the world its ugly side at a prestigious international event.
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  10. #510

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRidge View Post
    Yes they can. It is possible, though we don't really know, that the police have looked the other way regarding some vicious attacks on gays in Russia. They won't do that in Sochi because Russia is not interested in showing the world its ugly side at a prestigious international event.
    I believe you're right. (Although I think we do know that police have indeed looked the way other way regarding vicious attacks on gays in Russia.)

    But I'm also concerned that unforeseen demonstrations may cause an unsafe environment for athletes and attendees of the games.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  11. #511
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    The Russian authorities are perfectly capable of effectively investigating and discouraging/preventing these incidents instead of looking the other way (or even arresting the gays instead of the attackers as has happened at some of the protests), but they simply don't care. However, I'm pretty sure that they will care during Sochi and that Russia will be on its best behavior when it comes to the athletes. They'll be protected from the anti-gay morons. If I were an athlete participating in the Sochi games, I'd be more concerned about the possibility of terrorism by Chechens or others than being assaulted and raped by homophobes. Not that I expect anything bad to happen on the terrorism front either, but it's a much more difficult problem for the Russian government than this sort of thing.

  12. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    The world would look very different if the majority of non-heterosexual people had the courage to come out.

    I've just been translating the manifesto of the next queer festival that we're doing soon [SHAMELESS PLUG ALERT] and this sentence seemed very relevant:

    '[Queer] is not a separation of - considered as private – gender and sexual identities from the social issues.'

    The private is political.

    (Which doesn't mean that I would out people who aren't ready for it. Unless you're a hypocritical right-wing politician who promotes 'family values.')



    This x million!
    Add a million more from me. I came out in 1983, part of the first generation of post-AIDS gay men. Much of the ideology being banded about by the Russian government is nothing new--Russia seems to be about 40-50 years behind the rest of Western Europe and the US/Canada in terms of LGBT rights. But what makes their new propaganda law so pernicious is that it seeks to make LGBT people invisible. Because the single most effective tool for generating tolerance is coming out. It's very easy to discriminate against an abstraction like "LGBT"; it's all 'nother thing when you realize the person you are denying fundamental human rights to is your brother or your cousin or your neighbor or your friend or your coworker. Then it becomes very real indeed. And this whole nonsense about "recruiting" kids is not going to change a single child's sexual orientation. LGBT people don't need to recruit--we get plenty of volunteers each and every year, and we have since the beginning of human time and will until the very end of it.

    Actually, I wanted to post here because I had a very interesting conversation about the propaganda law and Sochi with two gay men (one from Moscow, one from St Petersburg) I talked to on a gay chat board. They had what I thought was a very interesting take on the situation. They think it was passed when it was as a diversion from the billions and billions of rubles that have been pocketed by the government officials/contractors/builders responsible for the Sochi Olympics. One of them in particular said, who is going to speak up? All they'll have to do now is brand you as a gay man and destroy your credibility that way. I don't know enough about the situation to agree or disagree, but I did think it was a very interesting take on the situation.
    Last edited by WeakAnkles; 09-16-2013 at 01:27 PM.

  13. #513
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    The worst part about those laws - which aren't that harmful themselves - is that a climate has been created which allows and encourages violence against non-heteronormative people in Russia. Obviously, nobody is going to report any crimes if the general attitude towards non-straight people is that negative. You won't be treated with respect and nobody is going to care.

    To use an example from my own work again, two years ago, just before Pride started we (organisers + volunteers walking towards the starting point to get ready to start the whole thing) got assaulted by a group of neo-nazis. They suddenly emerged from behind a corner and started hitting and punching the people who were in front. We obviously reported it, there were plenty of witnesses but the police has soon dropped the investigation and never pressed any charges. They just couldn't have possibly cared less.

    Two years on, a discussion about violence has finally started. But only because a black employee of Hewlett Packard has been assaulted and the big corporations told the city: 'Sort this out or we're pulling out.' A couple of months ago a friend of mine was badly beaten in a homophobic hate attack. Because he works for the museum of contemporary art, his boss managed to gather other cultural institutions and write an open letter to the press. My friend gave interviews and his swollen and bruised face hit the headlines (most people would be too scared to even report it, yet alone go public). There was a lot of publicity which resulted in huge pressure from the Ministry of the Interior to find the perpetrators. And guess what, they did. When there is a will, there is a way.

    This year, we have been really shocked by how friendly and supportive the police has been during the planning stages for Pride. The culture has changed massively over the last year. Mostly because corporate investment in the city meant that violence against minorities suddenly became a financial issue but still, at least there is some progress.

    In Russia, exactly the opposite is happening at the moment. A very strong message has been sent that being gay is wrong. Which means that non-heteronormative people will internalise even more self-hate, violence against them has been encouraged and they will feel way too ashamed and scared to report any crimes to the police and even if they did, the police will not give a shit.
    Last edited by Ziggy; 09-17-2013 at 03:14 AM.

  14. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeakAnkles View Post
    Add a million more from me. I came out in 1983, part of the first generation of post-AIDS gay men. Much of the ideology being banded about by the Russian government is nothing new--Russia seems to be about 40-50 years behind the rest of Western Europe and the US/Canada in terms of LGBT rights. But what makes their new propaganda law so pernicious is that it seeks to make LGBT people invisible. Because the single most effective tool for generating tolerance is coming out. It's very easy to discriminate against an abstraction like "LGBT"; it's all 'nother thing when you realize the person you are denying fundamental human rights to is your brother or your cousin or your neighbor or your friend or your coworker. Then it becomes very real indeed. And this whole nonsense about "recruiting" kids is not going to change a single child's sexual orientation. LGBT people don't need to recruit--we get plenty of volunteers each and every year, and we have since the beginning of human time and will until the very end of it.

    Actually, I wanted to post here because I had a very interesting conversation about the propaganda law and Sochi with two gay men (one from Moscow, one from St Petersburg) I talked to on a gay chat board. They had what I thought was a very interesting take on the situation. They think it was passed when it was as a diversion from the billions and billions of rubles that have been pocketed by the government officials/contractors/builders responsible for the Sochi Olympics. One of them in particular said, who is going to speak up? All they'll have to do now is brand you as a gay man and destroy your credibility that way. I don't know enough about the situation to agree or disagree, but I did think it was a very interesting take on the situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    The worst part about those laws - which aren't that harmless themselves - is that a climate has been created which allows and encourages violence against non-heteronormative people in Russia. Obviously, nobody is going to report any crimes if the general attitude towards non-straight people is that negative. You won't be treated with respect and nobody is going to care.

    To use an example from my own work again, two years ago, just before Pride started we (organisers + volunteers walking towards the starting point to get ready to start the whole thing) got assaulted by a group of neo-nazis. They suddenly emerged from behind a corner and started hitting and punching the people who were in front. We obviously reported it, there were plenty of witnesses but the police has soon dropped the investigation and never pressed any charges. They just couldn't have possibly cared less.

    Two years on, a discussion about violence has finally started. Only because a black employee of Hewlett Packard has been assaulted and the big corporations told the city: 'Sort this out or we're pulling out.' A couple of months ago a friend of mine was badly beaten in a homophobic hate attack. Because he works for the museum of contemporary art, his boss gather other cultural institutions and wrote an open letter to the press. My friend gave interviews (most people would be too scared to even report it, yet alone go public). There was a lot of publicity which resulted in huge pressure from the Ministry of the Interior to find the perpetrators. And guess what, they did.

    This year, we have been really shocked by how friendly and supportive the police has been during the planning stages. The culture has changed massively over the last year. Mostly because of financial pressures but still.

    In Russia, exactly the opposite is happening at the moment. A very strong message has been sent that being gay is wrong. Which means that non-heteronormative people will internalise even more self-hate, violence against them has been encouraged, they will be way too ashamed and scared to report any crimes to the police and even if they did, the police will not give a shit.
    Word.

  15. #515
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    Excellent points, Ziggy.

    Not to mention that being able to put them to jail for being gay (ok, promoting gay propaganda towards children...whatever that means) will make it ok for Russian jurisdictions to pass extremely restrictive laws against the rights of LGBTQ people. Those legislators can say "well, they can already go to jail for such 'abnormal' or 'non-traditional' behavior, so surely we can allow all sorts of discrimination." This will trickle down to the private sector as well, adding more severe burdens to those who want to live out of the closet.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  16. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    The worst part about those laws - which aren't that harmful themselves - is that a climate has been created which allows and encourages violence against non-heteronormative people in Russia. Obviously, nobody is going to report any crimes if the general attitude towards non-straight people is that negative. You won't be treated with respect and nobody is going to care.
    Angela Davis spoke last night in Oakland at a Civil Rights and Restorative Justice Project at Northeastern University School of Law event to commemorate the 50th anniversary of a church bombing in Birmingham Alabama that killed four young girls. Among other things, she said,

    But my father was also a member of an armed patrol in our neighborhood. Black people had guns, but only because we had no other choice. Black people had to arm themselves after the 1877 Hayes Tilden compromise in which the Republican Rutherford Hayes was handed the presidency under the condition, remember, the Republicans were supposed to be the good guys in those days, OK, under the condition that he would draw all federal troops from the south. And so black people were effectively informed that they were on their own from then on, from 1877 on. This is the period that witnessed the emergence of official structures of white supremacy that did not begin to come down until the resistance of the mid-20th century freedom movement.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 09-17-2013 at 06:55 AM. Reason: bad math skills
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  17. #517
    Eh?
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    This video is

    Mr. DaveRocks and I will have to keep its advice in mind when we fly to Sochi in February...

  18. #518
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    Selena Gomez has cancelled the Belarus, Ukraine and Russia dates from her 'Stars Dance' tour. The tickets probably didn't sell since she doesn't really much (if any) public profile there but she decided to milk it for PR saying she's fallen foul of the 'gay propaganda law'. Right...

    Still, nothing beat this:

    The Real Cher: 'I have refused to play in Russia, even though no-one asked me.'

  19. #519
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    Good 'ole Cher

  20. #520
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    Twitter:

    ThinkProgress ‏@thinkprogress 4m
    Olympic Committee is "fully satisfied" that Russia will be an awesome place for gay athletes and fans http://thkpr.gs/1740AAZ

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