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  1. #201

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    Re-posting from the Trash Can:
    Quote Originally Posted by TanithandBenFan View Post
    There's a really nice article and photo spread on Josh [Farris] in this month's SKATING magazine (see page 30).
    ETA:
    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    I think Dornbush has perhaps bitten off more than he can chew: going for 2 different quads in his programs and attending school full-time while maintaining a 4.0. He needs to give on his programs (I think his education matters more). Perhaps concentrate on a Quad Toe and that's it.
    He said in the interview excerpt I posted that he attended (community) college full-time this past spring, which seems to indicate he is part-time this fall. In any case, I admire him for balancing his college studies with training. Some skaters need to focus on non-skating things in order to maintain sanity in their lives. I'm not sure what you mean by "He needs to give on his programs"?
    Last edited by Sylvia; 11-04-2013 at 09:02 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isnít every four years, itís every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  2. #202

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8er1964 View Post
    Jason is a beautiful skater, but unless he ups his technical from Skate America he will have a hard time being on the podium. His 3A just isn't that strong (or at least it wasn't at SKAM). If he does get that technical, he will definitely be a force to be reckoned with. He has plenty of time, though. How old is he - 18 or 19?
    It wasn't strong at SkAm, because he got nervous. When he's in the zone, it's beautiful. (See: Junior Worlds 2013). Jason will be 19 on December 15 and Joshua will be 19 just 22 days later.

  3. #203
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    ^^ ITA.

    I already posted Jason's upcoming December birthdate. Thanks for adding that Josh is a December birthday boy too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    ...

    [Richard] said in the interview excerpt I posted that he attended (community) college full-time this past spring, which seems to indicate he is part-time this fall. In any case, I admire him for balancing his college studies with training. Some skaters need to focus on non-skating things in order to maintain sanity in their lives. I'm not sure what you mean by "He needs to give on his programs"?
    ^^ ITA, and thanks Sylvia. Richard is a wonderful skater and I hope he continues to receive encouragement and support re his competitive prospects as a figure skater. Trying to train and consistently add quads to his arsenal seems to me to be the battle that Richard and many men skaters (nationally and internationally) have been going through especially over the past several years.

    I think it is not only difficult physically, but also mentally, strategically and logistically. Its been a confounding conundrum for fans and for skaters IMO. Even those men who seem to be able to fairly master the quad (some quite brilliantly a fair amount of the time) still face a battle with consistency, endurance and with balancing timing and rhythm effectively on some of their triple jumps whilst continuing to manage the quads. And that without even mentioning injuries that can/ will come with the territory.

    IMO, it would not be as difficult at this point had the sport as a whole decided many years ago (especially by 2002 with the advent of the new scoring system) exactly what quads should mean to the sport -- how they should be valued, and how the feds should support/ guide athletes in the best way to train them.

  4. #204

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    ^^ ITA.

    I already posted Jason's upcoming December birthdate. Thanks for adding that Josh is a December birthday boy too.
    I saw it just after I posted! And Josh is a January boy - the 6th. But I always find it amusing that they are only three weeks apart!

  5. #205

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post

    ^^ ITA, and thanks Sylvia. Richard is a wonderful skater and I hope he continues to receive encouragement and support re his competitive prospects as a figure skater. Trying to train and consistently add quads to his arsenal seems to me to be the battle that Richard and many men skaters (nationally and internationally) have been going through especially over the past several years.

    I think it is not only difficult physically, but also mentally, strategically and logistically. Its been a confounding conundrum for fans and for skaters IMO. Even those men who seem to be able to fairly master the quad (some quite brilliantly a fair amount of the time) still face a battle with consistency, endurance and with balancing timing and rhythm effectively on some of their triple jumps whilst continuing to manage the quads. And that without even mentioning injuries that can/ will come with the territory.

    IMO, it would not be as difficult at this point had the sport as a whole decided many years ago (especially by 2002 with the advent of the new scoring system) exactly what quads should mean to the sport -- how they should be valued, and how the feds should support/ guide athletes in the best way to train them.
    Some great points here! I too am still a big fan of Richard. Sure it's frustrating to not see him put it all together regularly, but I think it will happen. He has a good coaching team behind him, and IMO they're doing well with him. I think it's better that he's trying to add the quads into his arsenal now than later in his career. The quads might trip him up now, but I think he'll be used to them being a normal part of his competitive pieces in the future.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    I saw it just after I posted! And Josh is a January boy - the 6th. But I always find it amusing that they are only three weeks apart!
    Josh has the same birthday as RadioNova. Funny because they both won JW the same year!

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Re-posting from the Trash Can:


    ETA:

    He said in the interview excerpt I posted that he attended (community) college full-time this past spring, which seems to indicate he is part-time this fall. In any case, I admire him for balancing his college studies with training. Some skaters need to focus on non-skating things in order to maintain sanity in their lives. I'm not sure what you mean by "He needs to give on his programs"?
    He doesn't have 1 quad under control (4toe) and hasn't for the last two seasons. Now, he's attempting 2 different quads. IMO, he should dial it back a little, focus on the better one, and try for a cleaner performance. The judges like his skating enough to reward him highly if he goes clean.

  8. #208

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    He doesn't have 1 quad under control (4toe) and hasn't for the last two seasons. Now, he's attempting 2 different quads. IMO, he should dial it back a little, focus on the better one, and try for a cleaner performance. The judges like his skating enough to reward him highly if he goes clean.
    I'm really questioning the 2-quad strategy for a lot of guys at this point, not just Dornbush. So many guys are starting their LPs with 2 quad attempts, and in many cases missing both of them. I think recovering from 1 failed quad is hard, but when you start off bombing 2 in a row, it's just like, wow, how do you climb out of this hole? It definitely affects the performance. And also if you triple out of one of the quads, it sometimes causes problems with the jump layout in the rest of the program (i.e., having to add in a combo where you didn't plan one, that sort of thing).

    I think attempting 2 quads at the start is good if you have a high success ratio, like Fernandez, Reynolds, and Chan. But if you don't, I question the strategy.

  9. #209
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    Unless their coaches are telling them that it is better to fall on two rotated quads than not do them at all? But how often are they rotating?
    And if the people you named are doing 3 quads, then maybe they think not even trying for 2 takes your name out of the game completely?

  10. #210
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    Well, most of the men internationally these days rarely skate two clean programs at any event, despite the often high scores handed out. ITA that the U.S. men need to concentrate on getting in one quad per program cleanly before trying to unload on two, aside from Max of course. Max I suppose may end up having to concentrate less on PCS in order to ensure he steadies his quads and gets the tech scores. I give Max lots of credit though for the strides he has made in smoothing out his presentation -- but he needs to go clean because he's not getting a great deal of respect on PCS unlike some other skaters who are mainly good jumpers who are being overscored on PCS.

    Adam is looking good with the right amount of intensity and focus. He seemed a bit nervous in his NHK sp, but he handled it well. I think Adam was very underscored on PCS in his NHK sp.

    Jeremy is a beautiful skater, but I'm not feeling much spark in his new sp this season. It was nice to see him skate fairly well, but that quad seems so elusive (that confounding quad that I wish would just go away so I could enjoy watching men's figure skating again).

    Well since the the quad isn't going away, I'll try to look forward to enjoying the few and far between complete programs beautifully executed by accomplished skaters (and pray for some magic as the season continues to progress).

  11. #211

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    I wonder if Abbott would do better with a different sp? He isn't even getting the PCS with this one. Then again- it may be a moot point..he may just as well skate for himself and his fans at this point-looks like Sochi is out for him.

    Very happy for Adam's very solid start. It took a while, but he's finally coming into his own.

    I hate the quadarama that has ruined men's skating for me.

  12. #212
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    I guess that Rippon is the only one from these U.S. men to have a tiny chance for a slot in GPF?

  13. #213

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    I guess that Rippon is the only one from these U.S. men to have a tiny chance for a slot in GPF?
    Yes, and it's a bit of a longshot at that. Takahashi and Oda have already finsihed above him, and there are five men (Machinda, Chan, Yan, Kovtun, Hanyu) who can finish above Adam with a medal. Additionally, Brezina could also finish above him with a gold, or a silver and high score. So Adam will definitely be an alternate; but likely the second or third one.

    (In theory there are some men with 7 points now who could also qualify above Rippon with a gold, but at the point one of them gets a gold, one of the others I mentioned above won't medal, so it still seems likely that Adam will be an alternate.)

  14. #214
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    Bezina can theoretically get in the gpf with a gold next gp, though his chance of beating Hanyu, Chan and Yan Han are not that high

  15. #215
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    I think its still too early to tell re the numbers toddlj. This is quad-CoP, numbers-grabbing figure skating and anything is possible with slippery ice and tense nerves; or conversely slippery ice and heroics. Any one of Han, Kovtun, Machida and Hanyu can skate brilliantly or not do as well as expected. It depends on the competition, skate order and the space between their ears, as much as their talent and capabilities. Not to mention how the judges see things. It will especially be interesting to see how Han and Kovtun (in their first senior GP season) will be able to follow up on their successes at Cup of China. Also, will Machida continue to shine as he battles for recognition among the talented field of Japanese men?

    Again its early, but I say Yay for Jeremy. Good to see him put together a pretty strong free skate, even without the quad. Thwart those naysayers! Kudos to Adam too, and I wish him well. Adam battled through a nervy skate. He could have obviously grabbed the bronze had he not been so tight and flubbed on footwork in the sp, and faltered on that easy camel spin in the fp (and popped his 2nd 3-axel there too). Overall, Adam has a lot to be proud of, and I hope he uses the NHK experience to help him learn how to handle his nerves better in the big moments.

    Max has some things to work out. I think he has good programs, but he's got to believe in them more and steady himself to land his money quads. Overall, I wish for all the U.S. men a huge daily dose of confidence and self-belief.

  16. #216

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    Here is the updated Senior international scores list after NHK Trophy.

    Jeremy Abbott's bronze-medal winning FS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6wRcJnuL0Q
    Adam Rippon's SP (new ISU personal best score with first attempted 4T in competition): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGv2bxrr8Is

    Senior Men International Total Scores:

    Total Score, Name, SP Score, FS Score, International Event:
    241.24 Adam Rippon 80.26 + 160.98 Skate America, 2nd [#6 on ISU SB list]
    239.21 Max Aaron 81.49 + 157.72 U.S. International Figure Skating Classic, 1st
    238.36 Max Aaron 75.91 + 162.45 Skate America, 3rd [#8 on ISU SB list]
    237.41 Jeremy Abbott 78.78 + 158.63 NHK Trophy, 3rd [#9 on ISU SB list]
    233.71 Adam Rippon 82.25 + 151.46 NHK Trophy, 4th
    231.03 Jason Brown 83.78 + 147.25 Skate America, 5th [#11 on ISU SB list]
    228.43 Jason Brown 79.41 + 149.02 Nebelhorn Trophy, 2nd
    225.54 Stephen Carriere 77.48 + 148.06 U.S. International Figure Skating Classic, 2nd
    223.35 Max Aaron 76.21 + 147.14 NHK Trophy, 7th
    218.57 Richard Dornbush 72.58 + 145.99 Cup of China, 5th [#19 on ISU SB list]
    216.72 Joshua Farris 69.14 + 147.58 Skate Canada, 5th [#21 on ISU SB list]
    215.95 Jeremy Abbott 74.58 + 141.37 Skate Canada, 6th
    210.87 Ross Miner 74.28 + 136.59 Nepela Trophy, 4th
    206.71 Richard Dornbush 65.82 + 140.89 Finlandia Trophy, 4th
    206.56 Joshua Farris 71.85 + 134.71 U.S. International Figure Skating Classic, 3rd
    199.31 Douglas Razzano 71.89 + 127.42 Finlandia Trophy, 6th
    196.89 Ross Miner 66.71 + 130.18 Skate Canada, 9th
    191.91 Grant Hochstein 63.29 + 128.62 U.S. International Figure Skating Classic, 4th

    Senior Men International Short Program Scores:

    SP Score, Name, TES, PCS, Deductions (if any)
    83.78 Jason Brown 44.85 + 38.93 - 0.00 Skate America, 2nd
    82.25 Adam Rippon 44.40 + 37.85 - 0.00 NHK Trophy, 4th
    81.49 Max Aaron 44.57 + 36.92 - 0.00 U.S. International Figure Skating Classic, 1st
    80.26 Adam Rippon 43.23 + 37.03 - 0.00 Skate America, 3rd
    79.41 Jason Brown 43.38 + 36.03 - 0.00 Nebelhorn Trophy, 2nd
    78.78 Jeremy Abbott 38.82 + 39.96 - 0.00 NHK Trophy, 7th
    77.48 Stephen Carriere 42.89 + 34.59 - 0.00 U.S. International Figure Skating Classic, 2nd
    76.21 Max Aaron 40.65 + 36.56 - 1.00 NHK Trophy, 8th
    75.91 Max Aaron 41.37 + 35.54 - 1.00 Skate America, 6th
    74.58 Jeremy Abbott 35.30 + 39.28 - 0.00 Skate Canada, 4th
    74.28 Ross Miner 38.11 + 37.17 - 1.00 Nepela Trophy, 3rd
    72.58 Richard Dornbush 36.47 + 36.11 - 0.00 Cup of China, 6th
    71.89 Douglas Razzano 39.02 + 33.87 - 1.00 Finlandia Trophy, 3rd
    71.85 Joshua Farris 37.67 + 34.18 - 0.00 U.S. International Figure Skating Classic, 3rd
    69.14 Joshua Farris 33.11 + 36.03 - 0.00 Skate Canada, 8th
    66.71 Ross Miner 32.15 + 36.56 - 2.00 Skate Canada, 10th
    65.82 Richard Dornbush 29.45 + 36.37 - 1.00 Finlandia Trophy, 8th
    63.29 Grant Hochstein 33.13 + 31.16 - 1.00 U.S. International Figure Skating Classic, 4th

    Senior Men International Free Skate Scores:

    FS Score, Name, TES, PCS, Deductions (if any)
    162.45 Max Aaron 90.47 + 72.98 - 1.00 Skate America, 2nd
    160.98 Adam Rippon 79.90 + 82.08 - 1.00 Skate America, 3rd
    158.63 Jeremy Abbott 78.25 + 80.38 - 0.00 NHK Trophy, 3rd
    157.72 Max Aaron 81.88 + 75.84 - 0.00 U.S. International Figure Skating Classic, 1st
    157.70 Jeremy Abbott 74.20 + 84.50 - 1.00 Japan Open, 3rd (FS only)
    151.46 Adam Rippon 73.60 + 77.86 - 0.00 NHK Trophy, 4th
    149.02 Jason Brown 73.80 + 72.22 - 0.00 Nebelhorn Trophy, 2nd
    148.06 Stephen Carriere 76.88 + 73.18 - 2.00 U.S. International Figure Skating Classic, 2nd
    147.58 Joshua Farris 74.80 + 73.78 - 1.00 Skate Canada, 4th
    147.25 Jason Brown 68.69 + 79.56 - 1.00 Skate America, 6th
    147.14 Max Aaron 78.20 + 68.94 - 0.00 NHK Trophy, 7th
    145.99 Richard Dornbush 76.61 + 70.38 - 1.00 Cup of China, 4th
    141.37 Jeremy Abbott 65.59 + 77.78 - 2.00 Skate Canada, 6th
    140.89 Richard Dornbush 66.73 + 75.16 - 1.00 Finlandia Trophy, 4th
    136.59 Ross Miner 61.09 + 75.50 - 0.00 Nepela Trophy, 4th
    134.71 Joshua Farris 57.37 + 78.34 - 1.00 U.S. International Figure Skating Classic, 3rd
    130.18 Ross Miner 60.54 + 69.64 - 0.00 Skate Canada, 8th
    128.62 Grant Hochstein 60.94 + 69.68 - 2.00 U.S. International Figure Skating Classic, 4th
    127.42 Douglas Razzano 59.58 + 68.84 - 1.00 Finlandia Trophy, 7th

    To come:
    TEB: Brown, Miner
    Rostelecom Cup: Dornbush, Farris

    ETA:
    QUAD statistics - top-scoring quads/quad combos so far this international season:
    13.93 Aaron (USIC SP) 4S+3T 14.6 BV -0.67
    12.98 Aaron (SA FS) 4S+2T in 2nd half 12.98 BV
    11.66 Aaron (NHK SP) 4S+2T 11.8 BV -0.14
    10.60 Hochstein (USIC SP) 4T+2T 11.6 BV -1
    10.16 Abbott (SC SP) 4T 10.3 BV -0.14
    9.57 Aaron (USIC FS) 4S+1T 10.9 BV -1.33
    9.55 Aaron (USIC FS) 4S in 2nd half 11.55 BV -2
    9.30 Aaron (NHK FS) 4T 10.3 BV -1
    8.97 Farris (USIC SP) 4T 10.3 BV -1.33
    8.73 Rippon (NHK SP) 4T 10.3 BV -1.57
    8.50 Aaron (SA FS & NHK FS) 10.3 BV -2
    8.44 Rippon (NHK FS) 4T 10.3 BV -1.86

    Note: Rippon's 4Lz< hand down (SA SP) scored 6.93 (9.5 BV -2.57).

    3 others who fell on a rotated quad:
    7.55 Dornbush (Finlandia FS) 4S in 2nd half 11.55 BV -3 + fall -1
    6.30 Carriere (USIC FS) 4T 10.3 BV -3 + fall -1
    6.30 Razzano (Finlandia SP) 4T 10.3 BV -3 + fall -1
    Last edited by Sylvia; 11-10-2013 at 05:30 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isnít every four years, itís every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  17. #217

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    Forgot to post this link earlier - Abbott's interview during Skate America, which was published after his SP at NHK Trophy but seems more fitting following his FS comeback: http://www.nbcolympics.com/news/soch...ew-perspective

    P.S. I also posted a slighter longer version about the quads in this GSD thread: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...=1#post4046689
    Last edited by Sylvia; 11-11-2013 at 12:47 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isnít every four years, itís every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  18. #218
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    Somebody we are forgetting about is Stephen Carriere. Why the USFSA doesn't send him to Ice Challenge is beyond me. Actually, not using a slot at Ice Challenge at all is a stupid move

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    I'm hoping carriere has a good season too.

  20. #220

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Somebody we are forgetting about is Stephen Carriere. Why the USFSA doesn't send him to Ice Challenge is beyond me.
    My only guess is that USFS doesn't want to give him a bye to Nationals.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isnít every four years, itís every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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