View Poll Results: Which was the greater performance?

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  • Tara Lipinski at the 1998 Olympics

    32 34.78%
  • Michelle Kwan at the 1998 U.S. Nationals

    60 65.22%
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabybackhand View Post
    Maybe it is not a fair way to look at things as COP wasnt around then but I wonder if Tara's technical would stand out as so astonishing with flutz and possibly UR calls if it were scored under todays rules.
    Not only this, but Tara's "double" toe loop was actually a single! I can't believe she ever got credit for that jump.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lnt175 View Post
    Lipinskis skating hasn't aged well
    Could you explain what you mean by this?

    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    Not only this, but Tara's "double" toe loop was actually a single!
    Which double or "single" toe loop are you talking about?
    I hear outside a million panicking birds, and know even out there comfort is done with; it has shattered even the stars, this creature at last come home to me.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    Not only this, but Tara's "double" toe loop was actually a single! I can't believe she ever got credit for that jump.
    I think early on as a junior and first year senior she had a horrible toe-axel, but by the time she won worlds it was gone.
    Last edited by honey; 08-05-2013 at 09:17 PM.

  4. #24

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    Can I just say how much I LOVED that Olympic SP of hers? I don't know how anyone could have watched that and said she was only a jumping bean with no artistic sensibilities. Quite a lovely and expressive program, although it doesn't hurt that I adore that soundtrack. I didn't really start following figure skating until about a year and a half after these Games so I didn't remember it that well. Thank you to Maofan7 for starting this thread and posting all these vids

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by honey View Post
    I think early on as a junior and first year senior she had a horrible toe-axel, but by the time she won worlds it was gone.
    Yeah I guess you would call it a toe axel. It was very egregious in many of her performances.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by orientalplane View Post
    Could you explain what you mean by this?



    Which double or "single" toe loop are you talking about?
    Well in the judging system some of Taras jumps would be URed (although the 3lp/3lp seemed fine to me) and she did not have a real Lutz. She was far from the only one, and for the time she did what she had to according to the rules, but IMO her LP did have some flaws in it.

    ETA I just saw that the poll is comparing Lipinskis OLympic program to Kwans Nationals performance, an even harder comparision to make. I'd give the edge to Kwan here even though Lyra is not my favorite program of hers.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    Yeah I guess you would call it a toe axel. It was very egregious in many of her performances.
    As others have pointed out, she fixed it during the 96 off season. Other than 97 Nationals, from the fall of 96 through her pro careers, she didn't "toe axel" anymore. Too bad Kimmie Meissner and Amber Corwin could never correct theirs!

  8. #28
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    Lipinski fixed alot of her jump problems. Her axel got mch better after she opened up on it at the 97 CSF. Its too bad she dropped it from her repertoire as a pro, as she seemed to getting better at it. Her salchow also got better when she got older.

  9. #29

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    Lipinski by a mile! That long program is just a run-away best ever.

    As the articles say, she skated with total abandon and joy, and technical content that could not be denied. They all wanted to give it to Michelle.......Michelle thought it was hers (and it was) - Tara just didn't get that memo.
    DH - and that's just my opinion

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  11. #31
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    Interesting article, but

    I skated my whole life. I was on the ice at 3.
    Her wikipedia says she started roller skating at 3 and figure skating (ice?) at 6.

    I was on the ice seven days [after] the surgery.
    Highly, highly suspect. You can barely even stand with crutches a week after having this surgery, even with constant physio. This article (which incorrectly says she retired) states that

    Lipinski was back on the ice seven days later, albeit merely for some stroking.
    "The doctor was not happy," she said, "but he realized even if it hurts, I want to do it."
    Less than a month later, at rehearsals for the Stars on Ice tour, Lipinski sat out, unable to handle even some of the simplest manoeuvres.
    So she got on the ice too early, it hurt really bad just to stroke, and she still couldn't do simple manouvers after a month. That sounds about right for the amount of pain after a hip arthroscopy.

    This article states that her recovery timeframe was originally expected to be three weeks on crutches and six weeks off the ice, which is very accurate for her type of surgery. I believe her actual time off the ice (supposedly a week) was exaggerated to sound shorter, or she pushed too quickly, which is why she had so much pain during rehearsals. It is a bad idea to ignore the doctor's instructions with this type of injury. Who knows if this played into any factor of her quitting. She claims it didn't.

    I can’t tell my fans, but if I didn’t win, if I came in second or third, I would have never turned pro. My main goal was [to win] the Olympics. I would have stayed in if it took me another twenty years.
    This is a pretty clear answer to a question that people often ask about her. I wish she hadn't won so we could see what else she was capable of. It would have been so intriguing to see her still competing in 2006. She could have had a career greater than Kwan's. I wonder if her parents would have divorced if she had stayed in another 20 years, or if the relationship with her parents would have been put on the back burner had she lost in 1998.

    I believe the new scoring system would have been in my favor.
    That's very hard to say. She might have gotten a lot of UR calls. I'm not sure about her skating skills in general compared to Kwan. And she would have had to get a Biellmann and it never seemed like she was that flexible. Her layback was below average. Kwan's wasn't that flexible either, but at least Kwan regularly did a Y-spin.
    Last edited by leafygreens; 08-09-2013 at 02:03 AM.

  12. #32

  13. #33
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    Thanks to the thread starter for compiling all of the links to her performances. She really rocked that "roller skater" axel entry. Quite an amazing young competitor.

  14. #34

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    They were both great. I voted for Michelle at the 98 US Nationals because it was the most complete program, even without a 3-3. Everything flowed from her heart. She fully deserved those (8 out of 9) 6.0's.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BmcC102 View Post
    Both performances were amazing! I voted for Tara, because she did her best when it counted the most.
    Good point here.
    I love both performances (as well as both skaters). Tara's technical content was so impressive. Not only did she go for her 3-3 but she hit it beautifully halfway through her program, after her combo spin and step sequence. That's incredible. Then, her 3toe-3sal towards the end. How gutsy. Artistically, it was good enough for her age, but not so outstanding.

    Michelle's Lyra Angelica at Nationals was out of this world so it gets my vote, but I do consider both performances among the greatest in the history of ladies FS.

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