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  1. #981

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    Pretty foolish to put something on twitter that can quite obviously be seen a racial slur. Someone send that girl to PR school.

  2. #982

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    Actually Japanese native speakers as I am have troubles with "r" sound. They tend to pronounce "pray" as "play". So I don't think Mao had a difficulty to pronounce "only". Maybe Mao(and other Japanese skaters participated in The Ice shows) had fun telling jokes about the "r" sound during the shows when Gracie was among them. I don't understand why Gracie picked up "only" but I guess she did because it was a title of the memorial video. Anyways, it wouldn't be a big issue in Japan even they noticed her tweet. Hope she learn from this to act as a representative of her country. As for Mao, she's lived over a decade as a darling of her country under a great pressure. In a way, Gracie was given a chance to learn before Sochi.

    Go Gracie! You are loved by maaaaany Japanese fans. Even Mao fans love you since they know you love Mao.

  3. #983
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Good for GG for apologizing quickly. It's the only thing to do.


    So it's a pattern that some of us picked up on at the last US Nats. Graceless Gold
    Yeah, I'm definitely not a fan. That smug looking smirk on the latest Skating magazine doesn't exude the warmth and likability of an Ashley or Alissa.
    She comes off as a snob and I think SHE thinks she has this whole Olympic thing all wrapped up.

  4. #984
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    Yes, but no one expects a public apology over those.
    Because they are anonymous people on a messaging board, not a famous figure skater who will likely be representing her entire country at the Olympics this year! Can you really not see the difference?

  5. #985
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    There have always been double standards for normal ppl and famous ppl, yes

    And fwiw Gold hasnt gotten a spot to Sochi...
    Yet

  6. #986
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlefeetsk8 View Post
    Yeah, I'm definitely not a fan. That smug looking smirk on the latest Skating magazine doesn't exude the warmth and likability of an Ashley or Alissa.
    She comes off as a snob and I think SHE thinks she has this whole Olympic thing all wrapped up.
    I do think that she has the Olympic team all wrapped up. However, the cover photo you are referring to (is that it?) is not the best choice. But hey, at least they covered her roots with a fresh dye job.

    While looking it up, I found this: and was hit by a wave of nostalgia for the spirals. Waaaaaaaah, I want the spirals back!!
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  7. #987
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    Back to skating: if Wang does well in the jgpf that sets her up as a contender for Sochi spots. She is inconsistent though, too bad, but when she is on she is as good as any top US lady

  8. #988
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    Good one about the hair. AHHHHH---looking at Michelle and Sasha made some words come to mind---class, elegance, timeless. Currently, I would use those words with Wagner, Gao, Czisny and Cain. But I would leave out the "precious metal"

  9. #989
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    Can someone confirm that Karen Chen is still eligible for the bye to Nationals now that she's withdrawn from JGPF?

    With all these injuries and withdrawals, this year's Nationals is getting worse by the day. I hope nobody else hurts anything from now to January!

  10. #990
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlefeetsk8 View Post
    That smug looking smirk on the latest Skating magazine doesn't exude the warmth and likability of an Ashley or Alissa.
    I didn't read any smugness in that cover picture of GG at all, and I'm not a fan of her skating. People will read into it what they want to see.

  11. #991

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    Yes, but no one expects a public apology over those.
    No, but people can directly talk to people here and take them to task over it. As people do not have as direct of communication to Gracie and her being a public figure means whatever she says reaches out further than most private people's comments, and as she cares about her image, then a public apology is the best thing people can ask of her and serves as the most beneficial course of action in terms of her own damage control.


    This is a board of figure skating fans who can write English. I am not sure if people who do not belong to the category will be adequately represented. And skaters are hardly expected to speak up for themselves here. So I don't think the outrage here is a good gauge of much of anything other than the outrage of figure skating fans who can write English
    And? Does that negate people's reaction who have had exposure to such ridicule. People may be able to write English here, but this board has a broad population with people who may have learned English as a second, third, etc. language. Also, many may know (either through their own experience or people they know) what is like to be judged of your speaking ability before you even say a word just by your physical characteristics.



    I think people do know -- because if you take out "Chinese" and substitute "African American" or another group, that would have been v offensive to many. I think if it is a type of comment that one would never make about one's own people, then it's offensive. (Or try making some generic stereotypic remark about the economic opportunities of an ethnic minority here) I don't think racist comments are limited to physical attributes or accents--that's a rather arbitrary distinction, leaving people to think it's okay to criticize another culture based on some non-physical atribute.
    Actually, it's not arbitrary because there's a difference between things you are born with and things that you can actually control. Also, people may not be able to make fun of whole races of people just by their skin color, but people make jokes about specific nationalities all of the time. Look up Nigerian jokes for instance. Does that make it ok? No. I never said you couldn't be racist if you made fun of cultural stereotypes based on behavior. However, I think people tend to distinguish certain things. Not all generalizations are racist, but they can still be offensive. The comment about the quality of Chinese products can be seen as offensive and based on a wrong stereotype (and if you want to take it further, it can be a criticism of maybe the Chinese production model) or it could be people's criticism based on the fact that Chinese products are sought because they are cheaper and can be mass produced as a way to cut costs for businesses to sell to other markets. I'm not saying it can't be racist, but you have to see that there may be legitimate criticisms as well that may not always be based on mockery. Anyway, I forgot what the point of this part of the argument was about.

    Anyway, you yourself have your own personal threshold of what's deemed acceptable and what's deemed offensive. However, you cannot control how other people feel, which is what you're doing by judging people's reaction, then creating your own arbitrary class of people who are deserving of taking offense (Japanese people) and those who aren't (those who aren't Japanese).

    All I am saying is, deep down people do typecast other people (even other race), whether we admit it or not. But it's easy to think we are not when we are taking a "firm stand" on things llike Gracie's tweets.
    I don't think people here are doing that at all. Nobody is saying that people aren't guilty of bad behavior or that people are perfect. However, the matter at hand is that people were offended by Gracie's Tweet and commented on it. You can have an attitude of thinking since people are guilty of similar actions then they should never criticize other people of doing something similar, but other people disagree and think that as long as it's recognized as offensive, then people have the right to make a comment and inform Gracie of the offensive nature of her Tweet.



    So far, the outrage here seems to stem from the non-Japanese community. I have yet to see a Japanese fan here expressing outrage. You have the right to be outrage, but to be fair one needs to take the Japanese sentiments into account if the outrage is meant to be a considerate behavior towards Japanese people.
    Actually, some people have given examples of Japanese friends being offended and some people have given assumed reactions from Japanese people not being offended. Does that somehow negate the initial negative reaction people have? There's a reason why it hit a nerve with people.

    Again, I am not saying what Gracie did had any malicious intent nor am I thinking that people didn't have some sort of knee-jerk reaction to it. However, I don't blame people for reacting the way they did over it and want some sort of clarification or acknowledgement that the Tweet was a bad judgment call. What I do have a problem with is the dismissive attitude and sort of minimizing the impact it may have had on people, no matter if they should have taken a breath and understand that Gracie did not intend to use racist language (even if the language itself was racist).
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 11-12-2013 at 04:55 AM.
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  12. #992

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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    If anything, Gracie is lucky that it's only Phil Hersch is commenting on it. Much bigger outlets could have picked that up. Anyway, it was a thoughtless, offensive tweet and I'm glad she apologized.
    This. It was incredibly stupid and insensitive of her to post that, but I highly doubt she had malicious intent and I too am glad she apologized.

  13. #993

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jun Y View Post
    Can someone confirm that Karen Chen is still eligible for the bye to Nationals now that she's withdrawn from JGPF?

    With all these injuries and withdrawals, this year's Nationals is getting worse by the day. I hope nobody else hurts anything from now to January!
    Yes, I am nearly positive that she keeps her bye to Nationals. She earned her bye and this unforeseen circumstance shouldn't change that (providing she's healthy by January).

  14. #994

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    @GraceEGold Didn't see any negative comments from a JPnese (I actually thought it was cute),no worries! Thoughtful of u to apologize anyway
    This is one of the tweets made by a Japanese skating fan,
    and she is not the only one who thinks this way.

    As a bilingual Japanese living in the US for more than half of my life,
    I don't necessarily think Gracie's comments as cute but as a silly mistake
    and I think that she should not have said that.

    But I also do not believe that there is any racist thinking behind her tweet.

    I've heard from many Japanese fans that Gracie was very gracious to the skating fans in Japan
    and has left fond impressions among them.
    Last edited by YukiNieve; 11-12-2013 at 04:52 AM.

  15. #995

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    I was really looking forward to seeing Karen Chen in the JGPF. I'm bummed for her that she has an injury and has to withdraw. Is she competing in Seniors at Nationals? That will be exciting to see her debut there if she is. I'm excited about her potential (but not trying to tempt the Skategods too much!)

  16. #996
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    I think it is ridiculous if people are offended by that. People need to get over their unending hatred of Gracie Gold.

  17. #997
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    No, but people can directly talk to people here and take them to task over it. As people do not have as direct of communication to Gracie and her being a public figure means whatever she says reaches out further than most private people's comments, and as she cares about her image, then a public apology is the best thing people can ask of her and serves as the most beneficial course of action in terms of her own damage control.
    I'm merely commenting from the perspectiveness of offensiveness. What she does as a public figure is a PR thing and I'll perhaps leave that for another conversation.

    Actually, it's not arbitrary because there's a difference between things you are born with and things that you can actually control.
    I know that distinction, but many things that one can control are still offensive topics. e.g. Assuming people belonging to a type (e.g. social economic class) based on race is still racist. Saying one roots for all countries except Country X to win the Olympics could be racist.

    I think what is racist and sexism has evolved over time, and the majority of the society has always been shaping the definition. Two hundred years ago, the minorities didn't get much say in this at all. Now they have spoken up and more things are now in the offensive category. So perhaps thirty years from now, and with enough people spoken up about it, what I mention here will be openly considered by all to be offensive. I say this merely to point out the arbitrary nature re: offensiveness as a product of cultural norms. Many racist comments stem from ignorance of another culture, and it hurts like hell, and the most hurtful things don't necessarily involve making fun of skin color, accents, or physical attributes.

    However, you cannot control how other people feel, which is what you're doing by judging people's reaction, then creating your own arbitrary class of people who are deserving of taking offense (Japanese people) and those who aren't (those who aren't Japanese).
    It's not arbitrary; the tweet is for Mao and if it is considered offensive against Japanese people, then we should take their feelings into account. I think if people are gonna be offended, let's be clear they are offended for themselves, not for Mao or Japanese people.

    I don't think people here are doing that at all. Nobody is saying that people aren't guilty of bad behavior or that people are perfect. However, the matter at hand is that people were offended by Gracie's Tweet and commented on it. You can have an attitude of thinking since people are guilty of similar actions then they should never criticize other people of doing something similar, but other people disagree and think that as long as it's recognized as offensive, then people have the right to make a comment and inform Gracie of the offensive nature of her Tweet.
    That's because she is a public figure, not anonymous posters behind a login name.
    I'll be honest: I have been offended by some comments about Chinese in the past in the society and here in this forum, But when people think I should be offended, it's often over something I'm not concerned about. The most hurtful comments go beyond stupid errors. Yet even with the most hurtful things I just forget it.

    Actually, some people have given examples of Japanese friends being offended.
    One instance of a third hand report. See posts above by Japanese fans.
    Last edited by jlai; 11-12-2013 at 05:15 AM.

  18. #998

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnskater View Post
    I was really looking forward to seeing Karen Chen in the JGPF. I'm bummed for her that she has an injury and has to withdraw. Is she competing in Seniors at Nationals? That will be exciting to see her debut there if she is. I'm excited about her potential (but not trying to tempt the Skategods too much!)
    No, she is competing junior again in the U.S. this year (she won the junior ladies pewter medal last year).

  19. #999

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    [QUOTE=jlai;4048028]


    I know that distinction, but many things that one can control are still offensive topics. e.g. Assuming people belonging to a type (e.g. social economic class) based on race is still racist.
    Yes, I've addressed that in my post.

    I think what is racist and sexism has evolved over time, and the majority of the society has always been shaping the definition. Two hundred years ago, the minorities didn't get much say in this at all. Now they have spoken up and more things are now in the offensive category. So perhaps thirty years from now, and with enough people spoken up about it, what I mention here will be openly considered by all to be offensive. I merely point to the arbitrary nature re: definition of offensiveness. Many racist comments stem from ignorance of other culture, and it hurt like hell, even if the most hurtful things don't necessarily involve making fun of skin color, accents, or physical attributes.
    See, I don't see it as arbitrary as much as recognizing how things that seem harmless are actually deep-seated into racist attitudes and perpetuations of those attitudes.



    It's not arbitrary; the tweet is for Mao and if it is considered offensive against Japanese people, then we should take their feelings into account. I think if people are gonna be offended, let's be clear they are offended for themselves, not for Mao.
    I agree with this. I think my point is that since Gracie said it on Twitter for the world to see, it reached beyond Mao and people are reacting to it based on their own feelings. I wrote that in my initial post to you.


    I'll be honest: I have been offended by some comments about Chinese in the past in the society and here in this forum, But when people think I should be offended, it's often over something I'm not concerned about. The most hurtful comments go beyond stupid errors. Yet even with the most hurtful things I just forget it.
    As have I. There are things in every day life that I have to ignore or brush off just because I don't want to start a confrontation or have to defend my feelings. That still doesn't excuse the initial comments I have to deal with. I think this applies to everybody. I understand your feelings and why you choose or simply are not offended. However, what you are not offended by is not the same for others, and I don't know if it serves much good to minimize other people's authentic reactions. It's one thing to have them explain and maybe try to put their feelings in another perspective in order for them to reevaluate their feelings, but this sort of minimization because you don't feel the same is just dismissal.



    One instance of a third hand report. See post above by a Japanese fan.
    Again, I don't see what the point is if people were offended by it. And it's a second-hard report, not third-hand (not that it really matters). Your example of one Japanese fan and a comment that more people are on the same page (without evidence) is not much better since it's coming from a poster just like the poster who talked about his/her friend being offended. Even if dozens of supposed Japanese fans came to Gracie's defense, again, that doesn't take away the sting some people felt.

    Of course all of these only applies to people who authentically felt offended by her comment, not those who are using it as another way to attack Gracie Gold just because they already disliked her for other reasons.
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  20. #1000

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    Enough already. Gracie is a teenager and an athlete. She is not perfect and neither are any of us who post here. Thank heavens there was no Tweet or FB when I was a kid. People complain here because skaters are always too PC and never let you in on their personality and how they hate perfect princesses. Then one mis-step and the critics with their pitchforks and knives come out of the woodwork screaming outrage about what an awful person said skater is and how that tweet, cover photo, etc. confirms it, blah, blah, blah . People are so quick to judge others character flaws. Gets downright depressing.

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