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  1. #961
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    Good for GG for apologizing quickly. It's the only thing to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by littlefeetsk8 View Post
    Absolutely she knows what's appropriate because she has clearly led a life of privilege (who else would so brazenly discuss the expensive scarves she buys). And she knows enough to give a clever "all positive" TV interview saying how pleased she is with a subpar performance in a GP which dropped her from 1st to 3rd.
    But what really irritated me this season was the Icenetwork video at ?????can't remember the event????? at which she came back to the group of American teammates after a great performance. They all said something like you rocked, or you killed it, or whatever and she spat out "Damn right" in clear earshot of the microphones.
    So classless. I just can't imagine hearing Ashley saying that, when you know you could possibly be heard, that is
    So it's a pattern that some of us picked up on at the last US Nats. Graceless Gold
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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  2. #962
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    Of course Phil wrote about it. Chicago connection.
    Well of course Phil wrote about it - he always writes something about figure skating. I just hope this unfortunate incident with Gracie doesn't get out of hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    In that case, many of the threads here should be closed because they could be very offensive to a lot of people outside FSU as they too can see the comments. And not to mention, very hurtful things about skaters, which are 10 times more rude than Gracie's words.

    JMHO of course
    Well, it's not as if people don't speak up on here when they read something from a poster that they find particularly offensive. People respond to those types of posts all of the time, not to mention there's a reporting option for posters to report things to moderators.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  4. #964

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiruwater View Post
    The people here are not public figures who could be representing their entire country to the world in 3 months.
    This.

  5. #965
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    Phil stayed very neutral about it, to give him credit.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  6. #966
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparks View Post
    It is our business when she tweets something the entire world can see.
    True. It's sort of like when gymnastic's Carlotta Ferlitto of Italy made some clearly racist remarks on camera - for all the world to see and hear.

  7. #967
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Phil stayed very neutral about it, to give him credit.
    I'm not giving him credit for staying neutral. He's got a strong opinion on EVERYTHING.

  8. #968
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiruwater View Post
    The people here are not public figures who could be representing their entire country to the world in 3 months.
    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Well, it's not as if people don't speak up on here when they read something from a poster that they find particularly offensive. People respond to those types of posts all of the time, not to mention there's a reporting option for posters to report things to moderators.
    Not stuff like "so and so should retire now" or "so and so has no shot whatsoever" which probably hurts a heck lot more, even if it doesn't violate rules or etiquette.

    I try not to pick apart something like that when I myself could have said something hurtful to another. Even if it's not racist. I know societal norm dictates that "racist" or sexist hurtful is a bigger offense than other types of hurtful, when in reality other types of hurtful can at times hurt a heck more.

    FYI, some of the comments truly racist do not violate any of the usual etiquette. If a comment is made that typecasts a certain type of people in a really negative way, it's racist. (e.g. Do not buy things made in China because they all break?) They are the ones that sting, not mindless comments that poke fun of Rs and Ls. Yet it's the latter type of comments that are gonna cause disapproval

  9. #969

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    Not stuff like "so and so should retire now" or "so and so has no shot whatsoever" which probably hurts a heck lot more, even if it doesn't violate rules or etiquette.
    Actually, they do. People respond to comments like that all the time. I have. The latest one criticism I've had with those attitudes was during one of the Fumie Suguri threads.

    I try not to pick apart something like that when I myself could have said something hurtful to another. Even if it's not racist. I know societal norm dictates that "racist" or sexist hurtful is a bigger offense than other types of hurtful, when in reality other types of hurtful can at times hurt a heck more.
    Yes, all sorts of malicious statements and words hurt no matter if they are racist or sexist. However, people's reaction is determined by how offensive those comments are. Just people other comments maybe more offensive than a more "mild" racist comment doesn't take away the sting for the intended recipient of such comments.

    FYI, some of the comments truly racist do not violate any of the usual etiquette. If a comment is made that typecasts a certain type of people in a really negative way, it's racist. (e.g. Do not buy things made in China because they all break?) They are the ones that sting, not mindless comments that poke fun of Rs and Ls. Yet it's the latter type of comments that are gonna cause disapproval
    It depends on whether people speak up. I'm sure people distinguish making fun of someone's Asian manner of speaking or physical attributes (something that's ethnic) from talking about the quality of products made from a particular country which can be fixed and has nothing to do with immutable attributes or things deep-seated in one's language and culture (like an accent). If you want to talk about how jokes about the quality of Chinese products (which are sought because they are made for cheaper for companies to fight overhead) is racist, then you can educate people. Then it's up to the people who made such jokes to react appropriately.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  10. #970

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    He says: "Gracie Gold has apologized for a tweet meant to be an inside joke that could be seen as offensive." That hardly sounds neutral to me; it's sympathetic towards Gracie and the way she and her agent Yuki Saegusa hope to spin it.

    Inside joke? Please. People often try to pass off offensive comments as "out of context" (i.e. an inside joke). There was no way this was intended as an inside joke between the two of them; if so, why post it on Instagram/Twitter-- social media that Mao doesn't use? I cannot imagine anyone having the guts to make fun of a Japanese speaker to their face about the way they speak a second language.

  11. #971
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    Not stuff like "so and so should retire now" or "so and so has no shot whatsoever" which probably hurts a heck lot more, even if it doesn't violate rules or etiquette.

    I try not to pick apart something like that when I myself could have said something hurtful to another. Even if it's not racist. I know societal norm dictates that "racist" or sexist hurtful is a bigger offense than other types of hurtful, when in reality other types of hurtful can at times hurt a heck more.

    FYI, some of the comments truly racist do not violate any of the usual etiquette. If a comment is made that typecasts a certain type of people in a really negative way, it's racist. (e.g. Do not buy things made in China because they all break?) They are the ones that sting, not mindless comments that poke fun of Rs and Ls. Yet it's the latter type of comments that are gonna cause disapproval
    Maybe to you, but this comment has obviously upset a lot of people.

  12. #972
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    He says: "Gracie Gold has apologized for a tweet meant to be an inside joke that could be seen as offensive." That hardly sounds neutral to me; it's sympathetic towards Gracie and the way she and her agent Yuki Saegusa hope to spin it.

    Inside joke? Please. People often try to pass off offensive comments as "out of context" (i.e. an inside joke). There was no way this was intended as an inside joke between the two of them; if so, why post it on Instagram/Twitter-- social media that Mao doesn't use? I cannot imagine anyone having the guts to make fun of a Japanese speaker to their face about the way they speak a second language.
    This is true. It seems more like 'spin' that a true apology on re-reading it. And Hersh perhaps doesn't want to be 'blocked' himself from accessing Gracie Gold.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    Maybe to you, but this comment has obviously upset a lot of people.
    It obviously had and I hope Gracie has learned her lesson. She's in the media spotlight now and her handlers I am sure may have already pointed this out to her in no uncertain terms.

  13. #973
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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    He says: "Gracie Gold has apologized for a tweet meant to be an inside joke that could be seen as offensive." That hardly sounds neutral to me; it's sympathetic towards Gracie and the way she and her agent Yuki Saegusa hope to spin it.

    Inside joke? Please. People often try to pass off offensive comments as "out of context" (i.e. an inside joke). There was no way this was intended as an inside joke between the two of them; if so, why post it on Instagram/Twitter-- social media that Mao doesn't use? I cannot imagine anyone having the guts to make fun of a Japanese speaker to their face about the way they speak a second language.
    reese. I was responding to the previous poster. His not taking a stand is hardly neutral. He took a stronger stand over the weekend in saying that the Eurosport commentators "bashed" Gracie's music..which was a gross exaggeration. They didn't like her musical choice in the sp, lots of people don't. I totally agree with you. He is "reporting" without taking his usual harsh stand.

  14. #974

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    If anything, Gracie is lucky that it's only Phil Hersch is commenting on it. Much bigger outlets could have picked that up. Anyway, it was a thoughtless, offensive tweet and I'm glad she apologized.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reese View Post
    He says: "Gracie Gold has apologized for a tweet meant to be an inside joke that could be seen as offensive." That hardly sounds neutral to me; it's sympathetic towards Gracie and the way she and her agent Yuki Saegusa hope to spin it.

    Inside joke? Please. People often try to pass off offensive comments as "out of context" (i.e. an inside joke). There was no way this was intended as an inside joke between the two of them; if so, why post it on Instagram/Twitter-- social media that Mao doesn't use? I cannot imagine anyone having the guts to make fun of a Japanese speaker to their face about the way they speak a second language.
    It's also an inside joke to fans. When I first saw the tweet,I knew right away it was in reference to the ShibSibs video, so I thought it was cute she made the reference. But I saw the edited version of the Instagram post, not the original. In fact, I have no clue how quickly the post was edited.

    That doesn't mean the tweet/Instagram post wasn't wrong or offensive, but I do maintain the original intent was to pay homage to Mao's role in the video (though she did a poor job at doing so).

  16. #976
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. P View Post
    It's also an inside joke to fans. When I first saw the tweet,I knew right away it was in reference to the ShibSibs video, so I thought it was cute she made the reference. But I saw the edited version of the Instagram post, not the original. In fact, I have no clue how quickly the post was edited.

    That doesn't mean the tweet/Instagram post wasn't wrong or offensive, but I do maintain the original intent was to pay homage to Mao's role in the video (though she did a poor job at doing so).
    It was edited VERY quickly..By the time I walked from my living rm to my kitchen and clicked on Twitter, it had been edited.

  17. #977
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    I think the Hersh article does a good job of explaining what happened (w/o taking sides). Especially for those confused over the outcry...

    It was edited VERY quickly..By the time I walked from my living rm to my kitchen and clicked on Twitter, it had been edited.
    I remember seeing both the original tweet and the modified one at the same time, hence why I assumed typo. I was unable to get to the original Instagram image though. When I refreshed the Twitter page, only the edited one remained. Undoubtedly she must have taken heat immediately because from my experience some are vicious/relentless in their backlash.

    Crazy how much of a minefield SM is these days. You want to see more of the person and interact more, but the moment folks see something from them they don't want to see, they are jumped on and as a result, pull back.
    Last edited by RD; 11-12-2013 at 01:45 AM.

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    delete
    Last edited by RD; 11-12-2013 at 01:39 AM. Reason: meant to edit previous post, not make a new post

  19. #979
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    The latest one criticism I've had with those attitudes was during one of the Fumie Suguri threads.
    Yes, but no one expects a public apology over those.

    However, people's reaction is determined by how offensive those comments are. Just people other comments maybe more offensive than a more "mild" racist comment doesn't take away the sting for the intended recipient of such comments.
    This is a board of figure skating fans who can write English. I am not sure if people who do not belong to the category will be adequately represented. And skaters are hardly expected to speak up for themselves here. So I don't think the outrage here is a good gauge of much of anything other than the outrage of figure skating fans who can write English

    It depends on whether people speak up. I'm sure people distinguish making fun of someone's Asian manner of speaking or physical attributes (something that's ethnic) from talking about the quality of products made from a particular country which can be fixed and has nothing to do with immutable attributes or things deep-seated in one's language and culture (like an accent). If you want to talk about how jokes about the quality of Chinese products (which are sought because they are made for cheaper for companies to fight overhead) is racist, then you can educate people. Then it's up to the people who made such jokes to react appropriately.
    I think people do know -- because if you take out "Chinese" and substitute "African American" or another group, that would have been v offensive to many. I think if it is a type of comment that one would never make about one's own people, then it's offensive. (Or try making some generic stereotypic remark about the economic opportunities of an ethnic minority here) I don't think racist comments are limited to physical attributes or accents--that's a rather arbitrary distinction, leaving people to think it's okay to criticize another culture based on some non-physical atribute.

    All I am saying is, deep down people do typecast other people (even other race), whether we admit it or not. But it's easy to think we are not when we are taking a "firm stand" on things llike Gracie's tweets.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    Maybe to you, but this comment has obviously upset a lot of people.
    So far, the outrage here seems to stem from the non-Japanese community. I have yet to see a Japanese fan here expressing outrage. You have the right to be outrage, but to be fair one needs to take the Japanese sentiments into account if the outrage is meant to be a considerate behavior towards Japanese people.
    Last edited by jlai; 11-12-2013 at 02:25 AM.

  20. #980

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    That doesn't acknowledge that her comment itself was a mistake, just that it was a mistake because people took offense at it. How about something along the lines of "I am not racist and I should not have said what I did".
    Maybe she doesn't feel that it was, but still regrets that people were offended.

    Look, I'm not saying that what Gracie did was right. But she apologized -- clearly not to everyone's specifications -- but she did.

    I say, if Gracie clarifies her apology, we then rip her apart for not getting it "right" the first time (sarcasm intended).

    (I can't wait until Friday so we can start discussing actual skating again.)

    O-
    ETA: I hope Gracie learned something from this so we can start talking about her skating again.

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