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  1. #861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Camel View Post
    I agree with your post Toddlj. The USFSA needs to make some changes. I noticed this year they seem to be monitoring the junior ladies. They were shuffling them around. Why don't they do that to the senior girls.

    I am wondering how much monitoring is going on at Champs Camp. I think they need to make these ladies do more then just show their programs. They need to make it a competition. There could be a SP or a LP competition. These girls need more competition. Also at Champs camp they need to have more past champions speaking to the next generation. We have some girl such as Michelle, Sarah, Tara who were great competitors. Maybe they can past on what they did in the past to conquer their nerves.
    Bold mine.

    It's practically impossible to teach being a 'great competitor'. You either got it or you don't and I think that's an issue for not only the US ladies, but the Russian ladies as well.

    CoP might have something to do with it. Tara, Sarah and Michelle didn't have the burden of competing under CoP (Michelle dealt with it once at '05 Worlds and she was off the podium); worrying whether they were going to be 1/4 turn short on a jump, how many positions they could manage in a spin, how many revs they've achieved might have distracted them to the point of being inconsistent. We will never know.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    This year could be USFS's worst GP series outing for ladies in a while. With 4 of the gps gone, the ladies have bagged only one silver and one bronze.
    Why is that happening? I think it's because USFS, unlike the savvy Russian federation, has been slow to position talented upcomers for gp assignments or encourage them to do seniors (case in point, Angela Wang). The girls who are not in peak form go out there and end up 4th, 5th, 6th, last etc etc, slowing the team's momentum. (e.g. Agnes, Zhang, etc)

    eta:
    2009-2010 gps: 3 silver, 1 bronze
    2010-2011 gps: 1 gold, 3 silvers, 2 bronze
    2011-2012: 1 gold, 1 silver, 2 bronze
    2012-2013: 2 gold, 2 silver, 2 bronze

    eta: the second half of the season can very well turn out differently for US ladies, but this is not a good start
    But, another way to look at it:

    Ashley's '13 SA mark is above any of her marks from the '12 - '13 season.

    Gracie's lower GP mark is still better than the higher of her 2 GP marks from the '12 - '13 season.

    Christina's SC mark is about even w/ her best GP mark from '12 SA last season, and her SP score at SC was quite high.

    Courtney and Samantha are new to the Senior level and have no Senior cred, but are doing quite well score-wise

    Agnes and Mirai really need to step up their games, though.

    And, I just want to say that US ladies historically are pretty good at playing catch-up as the season progresses.
    Last edited by olympic; 11-09-2013 at 09:15 PM.

  2. #862

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    I think the only really obvious monitoring error USFSA made on the GP was sending a totally unprepared Zhang to SA, when it really should have gone to Hicks. (I am a fan of Zhang, to be clear, but she had no business being at SA.)

    I'm not sold that Wang (who was inconsistent on the JGP) or Edmunds (who earned many more points in the JGP than should likely would've on the GP) would have been better off being pushed up.

  3. #863

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Ashley's '13 SA mark is above any of her marks from the '12 - '13 season.
    Gracie's lower GP mark is still better than the higher of her 2 GP marks from the '12 - '13 season.
    Christina's SC mark is about even w/ her best GP mark from '12 SA last season, and her SP score at SC was quite high.
    All good points. And Christina faced a really tough field, and still has another shot.
    I think if these three are the Olympic team, the US is in good shape.

  4. #864
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    Wang has been on the jgp for 2-3 seasons. I am not sure if ladies have to wait to be consistent to move to seniors, because then there'll hardly be any ladies on the gp.

    Wang has a good sp this season, and her skating is mature enough for the gp.

    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Ashley's '13 SA mark is above any of her marks from the '12 - '13 season.

    Gracie's lower GP mark is still better than the higher of her 2 GP marks from the '12 - '13 season.

    Christina's SC mark is about even w/ her best GP mark from '12 SA last season, and her SP score at SC was quite high.

    Courtney and Samantha are new to the Senior level and have no Senior cred, but are doing quite well score-wise

    Agnes and Mirai really need to step up their games, though.

    And, I just want to say that US ladies historically are pretty good at playing catch-up as the season progresses.
    One can't compare scores from one season to the next. The GP men on average are scoring much higher now than last season but they are not necessarily cleaner.

    As for playing catchup, I'm not sure if that's the case, or the US ladies would have done very well at worlds before 2013. I actually think that US ladies have a way of losing momentum at key moments, though they have had their up moments and opportunities
    Last edited by jlai; 11-09-2013 at 09:37 PM.

  5. #865
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    At this point, I have to agree with those who feel that Gracie's music this season is not right for her. I think the fp music struck me at NHK as not suiting her moreso than her sp music. Someone in this or another thread made a music suggestion for Gracie that seemed more her style. I can't remember what it was, but whoever made the suggestion could they mention it again?

  6. #866

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    Wang has been on the jgp for 2-3 seasons. I am not sure if ladies have to wait to be consistent to move to seniors, because then there'll hardly be any ladies on the gp.

    Wang has a good sp this season, and her skating is mature enough for the gp.
    Is it too soon to be excited about next year? Wang and Edmunds will likely move up, I assume there will be some retirements, and the standings are likely to completely change, with someone like Hicks, Wang or Edmunds (or Gold?)... or maybe even Karen Chen when she moves up... potentially taking over as the leading US lady. It will be very interesting.

  7. #867
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    Yes, I hope the said ladies stick around for the long haul. Not easy to do it these days, with college competing for your time and all

  8. #868
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    ...
    One can't compare scores from one season to the next. The GP men on average are scoring much higher now than last season but they are not necessarily cleaner.

    As for playing catchup, I'm not sure if that's the case, or the US ladies would have done very well at worlds before 2013. I actually think that US ladies have a way of losing momentum at key moments, though they have had their up moments and opportunities
    My post was in response to another post regarding the comparison of medal counts, which I think you can agree wouldn't be accurate, either.

  9. #869
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    I think to many the medal count is the "bottom line" so to speak.
    I do think that good gps don't translate to world success though, or US would have had successes at worlds multiple times the last few years. And despite gp successes the Japanese are in more trouble than it appears as their successes are dependent on the skaters who will likely be retiring next season. I just hope US won't end up being "ladies in waiting" year after year (as it has for 6-8 years already)

    I hope the rest of the season turns out better for the Americans

  10. #870

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    ISU Seasons Best Total Scores of 140+ after NHK Trophy:

    3 193.81 Ashley WAGNER USA ISU GP Hilton HHonors Skate America 2013 20.10.2013
    6 186.65 Gracie GOLD USA ISU GP Skate Canada International 2013 26.10.2013
    9 179.08 Karen CHEN USA ISU JGP Kosice 2013 14.09.2013 (JR in U.S.)
    13 173.69 Christina GAO USA ISU GP Skate Canada International 2013 26.10.2013
    15 171.21 Polina EDMUNDS USA ISU JGP Mexico Cup 2013 07.09.2013
    18 167.98 Samantha CESARIO USA ISU GP Hilton HHonors Skate America 2013 20.10.2013
    24 164.18 Amber GLENN USA ISU JGP Czech Skate 2013 05.10.2013 (JR in U.S.)
    27 162.39 Ashley CAIN USA Nebelhorn Trophy 2013 27.09.2013
    28 162.00 Courtney HICKS USA ISU GP Skate Canada International 2013 26.10.2013
    32 155.87 Angela WANG USA ISU JGP Czech Skate 2013 05.10.2013
    34 153.17 Mariah BELL USA ISU JGP Mexico Cup 2013 07.09.2013
    42 148.19 Barbie LONG USA ISU JGP Kosice 2013 14.09.2013
    43 147.64 Agnes ZAWADZKI USA ISU GP Cup of China 2013 02.11.2013
    50 143.91 Tyler PIERCE USA ISU JGP Tallinn Cup 2013 12.10.2013 (JR in U.S.)
    55 142.32 Yasmin SIRAJ USA ISU JGP Riga Cup 2013 30.08.2013
    58 141.71 Mirai NAGASU USA ISU GP NHK Trophy 2013 09.11.2013
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  11. #871
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    I think to many the medal count is the "bottom line" so to speak.
    I do think that good gps don't translate to world success though, or US would have had successes at worlds multiple times the last few years.

    So let's hope the rest of the season turns out better for the Americans
    ITA. The '09 - '10 GP season which was ironically the last Olympic season is actually a good case in point: Nagasu was pretty subpar, downright atrocious at CoC, getting dinged for UR's and not medalling at all on the GP series, but ended up 4th at the Olympics; Flatt was pretty bad at CoC, then had a good performance at SA and went on to be in the final group at the Olympics; Wagner medalled at her GP events only to be off the team come January. Rochette was dismal at the GP Final but knocked it out of the park at the Olympics just 2 months later.

  12. #872
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    Mirai was 4th and 5th in her gps in 2009-2010. It was not great but steady. Rochette had a pretty good season except gpf.

    In any given season I think some GP medalists will not do well the second half of the season, and some GP non-medalists will rebound. Even the Olympic or world medalists have a down competition or two throughout the season.
    That said, overall the ladies team is not doing as well as could be considering the talents US actually has. I just think they are underperforming a bit given what they are capable of. In fact, they are kinda like the Russian dance teams right now--tons of talents but their teams seem to be not as ready as they are in the gps (B/s losing to the French and then I/K not medalling).

    US dance is where the teams are overperforming and actually looks like the teams want to fight for the Olympics.

  13. #873

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    Those top few scores are pretty damn good. For all the gloom and doom, if Wagner and Gold end up 3/6 at Olympics/Worlds I don't think anyone will be complaining.

  14. #874
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    I'm sure no one will complain if B/S and I/K finish 3rd and 6th either. But if I were the Russian federation or USFS, I would be monitoring their dance and ladies closely.

    Caution, not doom.

  15. #875

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    After seeing Mirai at NHK I have little hope for the rest of her season. She had her moments, but she doesnt look fully trained, and that alone pretty much rules her out. It was nice to see her smile now and then, but the smiles werent backed up by the actual performances. Besides that, I dont know what her team was thinking in giving her a Bond girl program that could only evoke unfavorable comparisons with Yu Na. I'm sorry, but that was just dumb. But I would love to see her bust out at Nats to show that she's not done. That is just too much talent and charisma to waste.

    At this point the ideal team IMO would be Ashley, Gracie and Polina.

  16. #876

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    Someone should tell Gracie that you aren't supposed to wear your alternate costume to the banquet.
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  17. #877
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    After seeing Mirai at NHK I have little hope for the rest of her season.
    it's disheartening to see 3 of the 8 US ladies (Mirai, Zhang and Agnes) underperforming on the gps.
    With Mirai, it's heartbreaking. It's as if she is tryiing harder and coming up shorter, starting with Golden West
    I hope to see her go out and fight at nationals, no matter the outcome

  18. #878
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    Mirai seemed off at NHK, even for the Mirai who URs and can be unpredictable. Referring to her tweet about having to break in new skates just days before the competition, I suspect she is having boot problems, which must be fairly recent since she seemed more steady and promising at Finlandia.

    OTOH, it looks like she's worked on selling both programs more and I was impressed with her overall skating. To me this didn't look like a lack of training. I think she was just off, but we'll see at COR. I'm disappointed that in the last few years she hasn't been able to deliver, but I remain optimistic. Wishing her the best!

  19. #879
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    Someone should tell Gracie that you aren't supposed to wear your alternate costume to the banquet.
    One would think she had won NHK with all of the OTT stuff she's wearing...
    Last edited by Jiazumi; 11-11-2013 at 05:18 AM.

  20. #880
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    I thought the picture was from the NHK?
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

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