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  1. #801

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondie12 View Post
    I was not meaning to imply that Yuna did not have a great work ethic. But I think Mao does too - and I would not be surprised if Mao's is not super crazy with work or at least equal to Yuna. Yet Head to head at their best, Yuna will win because she has the magic
    I never said that Kim works harder than Mao. Who knows who trains more? I said both girls work hard and that's why both girls are champions. Asada's a two time world champion, and has altogether four world medals as well as an Olympic silver medal. That's nothing to snuff at career wise.

    I also think that Asada has plenty of magic in her skating!

    I think the difference between Kim and Asada is Kim has better jumping technique, and that came from training when they were much younger.

    The Olympics are basically a crap shoot and so many factors get taken into account including timing. I don't think Asada had the best coaching situation in the lead up to the games, I wish she had gone to Sato sooner. Although I don't think that would have made much of a difference...

    However, Asada has had huge success in her career, and her hard work has made her a champion. I don't see Asada looking back at the end of her career and having all kinds of regrets about if she had just worked harder....
    Last edited by bek; 11-04-2013 at 04:16 PM.

  2. #802
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    [QUOTE=bek;4040677]Kim by many accounts has an incredible work ethic, as does Mao. In fact I read reports that Orser actually had to tone down Kim's training... Tara was a great competitor surely, but she had a legendary work ethic too. So did Michelle Kwan. The magic and confidence to compete really well, comes partly from knowing you are well trained and prepared.

    The point I'm making is I don't see a lot of competitive fire in Mirai. In terms of I want to win and I'll do what it freaking takes to win. I see that for example in Russia's Julia who clearly hated not winning on the GP circuit last year and came back this year with improvement.


    I totally agree. I have been saying this about most of the American girls. Where is the competitive spirit. Does anyone even want to be The World Champion. The only one who really seems to want it is Ashley.

    The Russian girls are hungry for those titles. Most of the American girls look like oh dear I got to land that jump. Oh no here comes another one, here I go. There is no concern about beating anyone.

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  4. #804
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    [QUOTE=Flying Camel;4040735]
    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Kim by many accounts has an incredible work ethic, as does Mao. In fact I read reports that Orser actually had to tone down Kim's training... Tara was a great competitor surely, but she had a legendary work ethic too. So did Michelle Kwan. The magic and confidence to compete really well, comes partly from knowing you are well trained and prepared.

    The point I'm making is I don't see a lot of competitive fire in Mirai. In terms of I want to win and I'll do what it freaking takes to win. I see that for example in Russia's Julia who clearly hated not winning on the GP circuit last year and came back this year with improvement.


    I totally agree. I have been saying this about most of the American girls. Where is the competitive spirit. Does anyone even want to be The World Champion. The only one who really seems to want it is Ashley.

    The Russian girls are hungry for those titles. Most of the American girls look like oh dear I got to land that jump. Oh no here comes another one, here I go. There is no concern about beating anyone.
    I must reluctantly agree. This seems exactly the case with most of the top U.S. girls with the exception of Ashley.

  5. #805
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    Back to Mirai for a second - I see her w/ a hunger starting since the Fall of '12 that I've never seen before. When she has skated thru her choreography, it wasn't because of disinterest. I think she has been focused like a laser on improving her jumps. To me, that shows work ethic and a willingness to improve.

  6. #806
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    If you were to ask me who would win if both Gao and Mirai skated their best, of course I'd say Mao.
    Hedging your bets, are you, bek?


  7. #807
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    I think the fact that Mirai's skating hasn't improved in 3 years shows she hasn't put in the work that is needed to become a better skater. Say what you want about Gracie but over the last couple years she has continued to make improvements in her overall skating even if it's gradual at times.

  8. #808
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    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    Who wrote that article? Who said Zawadzki is US lady number 3? At this point, she's US lady number 7 or 8 or at least she should be to the USFSA.

  9. #809
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    No, I think that's accurate generally speaking. Don't forget, she is the reigning US bronze medalist...

    That is regardless of whatever struggles she might be facing right now.

  10. #810

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    Note the wording in the article:
    Ashley Wagner, Gracie Gold and Agnes Zawadzki are the skaters Gao has to worry about most: they are seen as the three favorites for the U.S. Olympic spots.
    The writer is not a "skating expert" and presumably lists Zawadzki because she has placed third at the last 2 Nationals.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  11. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Back to Mirai for a second - I see her w/ a hunger starting since the Fall of '12 that I've never seen before. When she has skated thru her choreography, it wasn't because of disinterest. I think she has been focused like a laser on improving her jumps. To me, that shows work ethic and a willingness to improve.
    I agree. She was slower and skating through her non-existing programs, but she was focused. What happened at Nationals was unfortunate. Before that point last season, I felt her jumps were gradually back on track.

  12. #812
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    Don't know if this was posted yet but Courtney Hicks has a new SP. She says the "Soul Surfer" program 'just wasn't working' for her: http://instagram.com/p/gUDQ9rl9ue/

    I too agree that Mirai seemed to be getting back on track Marco - until she arrived sick at Nationals. I still feel and will always say she was robbed in the SP over the favored Agnes Zawadski who, Stateside anyway, seems to be the number three skater as far as the U.S. Federation is concerned these last couple of seasons.

  13. #813

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    Hicks revealed in her Instagram comments section that her new SP is to "Angelica" by Hans Zimmer. She will debut the program at Ice Challenge in Austria later this month.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  14. #814
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    Hicks has promise. Her biggest obstacle though is her carriage and extension. She really really needs to focus on that

  15. #815
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    Count me as one who thinks Mirai has improved over the last two years. Her major issues (her UR problem) are still there but I do see improvement in other areas of her skating.

    During the 2011-2012 season I thought she looked bored out of her mind. I hated her programs and I thought she looked like a zombie out there on the ice. Ever since switching to Amy Evidente I've seen an improvement in her attitude as well as the way she approaches her programs. Mirai actually fights now...she'll make a mistake and she may make another but she doesn't just give up. She continues to fight and stays on her feet. That's improvement IMO.

    I also think her programs are much better this year and she skates them with a bit more life. It may take her a moment to really settle into them but I could see her having another break out performance at nationals with her two programs if she skates well.

    I don't know if she'll ever correct her UR problem. As someone pointed out that's something she's struggled with ever since going through puberty...lest we forget the URs and DGs she got during her excellent 2010 nationals FS. Hopefully she'll continue to work on it. But I don't think it's fair to attack her training/motivation based solely on comments she or Frank made nearly 4 years ago. If you don't train with her then you don't have a right to accuse her of being lazy b/c you are only assuming she's not training hard.

  16. #816
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Hicks has promise. Her biggest obstacle though is her carriage and extension. She really really needs to focus on that
    I like Courtney's fearlessness with her jumps but she is a clunky mess. It's a shame she left John Nicks before any of his lessons could really sink in. She's short, stocky and muscular which doesn't do wonders for her appearance on the ice. Her posture needs extreme work as does her extension. I like her determination and she has pretty decent focus when she skates but she has got to do more in terms of aesthetics. She is not very pleasant to watch...she just needs to work on that.

  17. #817

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Count me as one who thinks Mirai has improved over the last two years. Her major issues (her UR problem) are still there but I do see improvement in other areas of her skating.

    During the 2011-2012 season I thought she looked bored out of her mind. I hated her programs and I thought she looked like a zombie out there on the ice. Ever since switching to Amy Evidente I've seen an improvement in her attitude as well as the way she approaches her programs. Mirai actually fights now...she'll make a mistake and she may make another but she doesn't just give up. She continues to fight and stays on her feet. That's improvement IMO.

    I also think her programs are much better this year and she skates them with a bit more life. It may take her a moment to really settle into them but I could see her having another break out performance at nationals with her two programs if she skates well.

    I don't know if she'll ever correct her UR problem. As someone pointed out that's something she's struggled with ever since going through puberty...lest we forget the URs and DGs she got during her excellent 2010 nationals FS. Hopefully she'll continue to work on it. But I don't think it's fair to attack her training/motivation based solely on comments she or Frank made nearly 4 years ago. If you don't train with her then you don't have a right to accuse her of being lazy b/c you are only assuming she's not training hard.
    Your right though I don't know Mirai and that's why I'm uncomfortable with being to hard on her. There's a difference though between saying someone doesn't have the ethic of lets say a Kim and saying they are lazy.

    It is possible things have changed on that end.

  18. #818
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Your right though I don't know Mirai and that's why I'm uncomfortable with being to hard on her. There's a difference though between saying someone doesn't have the ethic of lets say a Kim and saying they are lazy.

    It is possible things have changed on that end.
    We're only assuming Yu-Na works harder b/c she's so much better than everyone but that may not be the case. Some people are blessed with natural talent and don't have to work as hard as others to achieve the same or even better results. Training harder does have some bearing on a person's success but I don't think it's always that black and white.

    I remember during the London Olympics there was some controversy regarding Michael Phelps and Tyler Clary. Clary accused Phelps of not working as hard as he (Clary) did. The comments reeked of bitterness to me, mainly b/c Phelps won nearly everything he entered and, according to Clary, he was able to accomplish that without training as hard as others. Why? B/c Michael Phelps was more talented and knew he didn't need to be at 100% to win. Clary OTOH was training extremely hard yet could not reach the level Phelps was able to reach, even though Phelps was half-assing his training...

    Yu-Na could be in the Michael Phelps category, where her natural talent is so great that she doesn't have to kill herself training to be as good as she is. For all we know Mirai could be working her ass off 6 or 7 hours a day while Yu-Na only trains for 3 or 4 hours. Then again, maybe Yu-Na's success is b/c she trains 8 hours a day...who knows? The point is talent and ability greatly factor into what a person can accomplish. I'm sure Mirai would love to be able to do a 3Lz-3T of the same quality that Yu-Na does; but physically, she can't. Does that mean she's lazy or doesn't work hard enough? Not necessarily. More than likely it's b/c Mirai lacks the natural spring and fast rotation Yu-Na has in her jumps.

    I say all of that to say that training can only take you so far...talent and ability factor into what a person is capable of doing.

  19. #819
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    ^ Not only do you have to have both, but luck plays into the equation as well. So much is out of your control in FS and the moment must be seized when the opportunity presents itself (if it ever does).

  20. #820

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    I am assuming Kim trains hard because reports have always been that she trains hard and those reports don't just come from Kim herself. There have been things said about Kim and her team. However Kim not training hard enough isn't one of them.

    In terms of Mirai those reports are old but we do know at one point in her career she wasn't training as she should. For me the big issue know is the skate with a blank look..

    For me Mirai makes me think of I/k amazing potential but not making the needed improvements..

    I will say this in Phelps defense we don't know how hard he worked in the beginning. I would imagine Yu na who has mastered her elements maybe doesn't need to put in the same training she once did.

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