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  1. #781
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    You forgot that she URs.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Mostly people are saying this, or at least I am saying that I have doubts about Mirai even this season because she is not improving. Her URs were obvious to the naked eye in real time. She cannot hope to make the podium at Nats, let alone at Olys with that problem still not resolved.
    I think it has more to do with her body line and her jump technique than anything. Mirai was always a chronic underrorater once she turned senior and jumps don't get easier with age, so I can see why she's having UR issues still. That being said, I do see some work being put into her jumps. Her jumps at Finlandia were much higher than I've seen from her in the past. Her spins are almost back to the level they once were in 2010. It's just the polish and expression that needs work.

  3. #783
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    Hmmm, I think she is rather polished, especially as compared to Gracie. She is graceful and uses her arms well. I think it's more important to rotate jumps then to make them bigger. As to expression--that has been puzzling me for a while. She can be so engaging and charming as a performer but lately she seems not there, not engaged.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  4. #784
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD View Post
    2011-12 was really an exceptional season for Wagner and doesn't quite fit in with the rest of her career. Arguably she still peaked earlier than desired (4CC instead of Worlds), but it was still in the 2nd half of the season. But for all other years I can remember, her best OVERALL efforts have come during the GP. Her 2012 effort at Worlds was weaker than at Natls/4CC, and although her 2013 Worlds effort was better than Nationals, it was still not quite as good as her SA skate.
    She was always better or on par at Nats than the rest of the GP season, but with one crappy SP mistake at Nats that kept her down. That was probably a mental thing.

    This past season she had all kinds of things that ruined her mid-season training, and she still came out strong at worlds and stronger at WTT. Her best FS of the season was her final one at WTT, and she went for 3/3 in the short.

    I don't see how she's an early peaker. It's not as though we can just assume she'll be weaker at Nats and then Olys than her GP's this season. That is hardly warranted, as it would be on a skater who actually falls off at the mid-end of the season.

  5. #785

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Did you miss all the quotes from Frank and Mirai herself about her work ethic? It seems like you did. The fact that she is sticking around means nothing at all wrt her work ethic. There could be many other reasons why she is sticking around.
    Yes I am aware that she and Frank had their differences. That was also how many years ago?

    Are you capable of having an adult conversation without being so condescending? Honestly.

  6. #786
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    I wasn't talking about differences between Frank and Mirai. I was in fact mentioning something they both agreed on.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  7. #787
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    At the US Nats in 2012 when I saw her live she was neither fit nor prepared for the competition.
    I saw every practice live in 2012 as well as the short and long. Mirai looked fit to me, though her dress was not as form fitting as her current black dress and made her look a little heavy. She had terrific practices Tuesday through Thursday, looked as sharp as anyone, including Wagner, and was well prepared. By the Saturday free skate it looked like the pressure/nerves were getting to her and she skated very poorly, for her, in the FS, making mistakes she had not made all week. Just like Gold practiced well all week in Omaha, yet made mistakes in the short that she had not been making all week. The pressure/nerves got to Gold as well.

  8. #788
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-man View Post
    I saw every practice live in 2012 as well as the short and long. Mirai looked fit to me, though her dress was not as form fitting as her current black dress and made her look a little heavy.
    So did I. And I couldn't help noticing that Mirai was a bit heavier than other top girls and didn't have the muscle definition that they had. The dress has nothing to do with it as I saw her in practice clothes. I posted many practice reports from those Nats, lots of details if you care to search.

    What do practices matter anyway? Why are you bringing it up? Alyssa had a stellar SP practice too but ended up not where she wanted to be.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  9. #789
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondie12 View Post
    And Carolina is also 6 years older than Mirai, with much of her accomplishments coming in recent years mostly the last 3 seasons (except for some good results in 2005 and 2008 followed by large drops in ranking the next year) In her early years (and up until recently), since there were few great Russian skaters, competition at Euros was not that intense. Carolina has also enjoyed competing for a country where she has no competition so she had the opportunity to go to pretty much every international event. I don't think you can compare the two. Carolina is no doubt more accomplished but that is not the point. Everyone could have written off Carolina after she bombed horribly in Vancouver when she was 22 years old too, but instead she turned herself around and lived up to her potential. One can only hope she does not backslide this season. Mirai never lived up to her potential but at only 20 years old, she still could if she really wanted to and she could be like Carolina.
    ITA and until the day she announces her retirement I will continue to believe in Mirai and her potential. You also made a very good point about Carolina competing in a country where she really doesn't have that much competition versus Mirai who has to fight just to get onto the Worlds team. She only did it once in '10. However, but for the age rule she might have gone in '08. And imo she SHOULD have gone in '11 over Flatt.

    Mirai tweeted a request for advice on breaking in her skates - a bit concerning this close to her first GP of the season. https://twitter.com/mirai_nagasu

    Mirai Nagasu ‏@mirai_nagasu 29 Oct
    Any tips on breaking new skates in ASAP? #jacksonultima

  10. #790
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondie12 View Post
    I guess what I mean is if Mirai gets 3rd at nationals, would they give it to Agnes or Christina instead if they place 4th? Agnes probably has a coach that can better lobby for her. Is Mirai so out of favor that they will not want her on that Olympic team in favor of one of the favorites (Agnes) or a more consistent performer (Christina)? Mirai is the type of skater who you never know what she will do. She could come out and give the skate of her life at nationals. (Or completely bomb too though I think she knows if she does that, people who are willing to give her a chance will give up on her)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Nah, only if Wagner or Gold is 4th.

    Pretty much. No way IMO if Nagasu finished 3rd behind Wagner and Gold, would they not send her to Sochi. Actually I cant see them not sending anyone who finished 3rd behing Wagner and Gold, not being sent to Sochi. The rare skater they couldnt stand to see sent to the Games (eg- Flatt) would never get the marks needed to place them top 3 anyway. In all honesty Gao is my sentimental hope to make the team, even more than Nagasu, but why would they ever make a very rare change in the Nationals result to send a skater who had never been higher than 5th at Nationals or been to a Worlds instead of a past Olympian who beat her for that 3rd spot at Nationals. Meanwhile I am almost sure Agnes is the one they are praying get that spot, but if she finished lower than 3rd at Nationals, then that means she skated poorly enough that even being the USFSA pet she still couldnt justify that spot.

    Now if somehow in shocker Wagner or Gold ended up 4th, whoever finished 3rd (assuming it wasnt also Gold or Wagner) would be in huge trouble. The USFSA would atleast order a skateoff at Four Continents I believe in that case, and then politik the heck out of that skater going in.

  11. #791

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Now if somehow in shocker Wagner or Gold ended up 4th, whoever finished 3rd (assuming it wasnt also Gold or Wagner) would be in huge trouble. The USFSA would atleast order a skateoff at Four Continents I believe in that case, and then politik the heck out of that skater going in.
    No, USFS' 2014 Olympic team selection rules preclude 4CC being used as a skateoff.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  12. #792
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    IceAlisa: Well, we are just going to disagree. I took a few hundred photos at San Jose, including some of Mirai, at 1/500th of a second. When Mirai is in a spin and her dress, or loose practice clothes, cling to her in a spin, you can see how thin and fit she was. And yes, I read your practice reports, and posted a couple myself.

    Why am I bringing up practices? Because you said she was not prepared. She had great practices, had obviously been working hard and was well prepared. Still, she skated poorly. I think Frank was totally confused, with all the preparation he and his skater had done, yet with a performance below her ability. Just like Gold had great practices at Omaha, yet skated a ppor short. It doesn't mean she wasn't prepared.

  13. #793
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Nobody besides Wagner and Gold (and Gold isnt even certain) will make the GPF,
    Gold, with a 3rd at SC, is currently in a three way tie for seventh in the GP standings, but she does hold the tiebreaker. To make the GPF, you usually need two seconds, and sometimes can make it with a 2nd and a 3rd. So she needs at least a second at NHK, which means she will need to beat 2 of Asada, Suzuki, and Radionova. And Suzuki already edged her at SC, will be at home, and is fighting hard for a spot on the Olympic tea.

  14. #794
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    Quote Originally Posted by b-man View Post
    IceAlisa: Well, we are just going to disagree. I took a few hundred photos at San Jose, including some of Mirai, at 1/500th of a second. When Mirai is in a spin and her dress, or loose practice clothes, cling to her in a spin, you can see how thin and fit she was. And yes, I read your practice reports, and posted a couple myself.

    Why am I bringing up practices? Because you said she was not prepared. She had great practices, had obviously been working hard and was well prepared. Still, she skated poorly. I think Frank was totally confused, with all the preparation he and his skater had done, yet with a performance below her ability. Just like Gold had great practices at Omaha, yet skated a ppor short. It doesn't mean she wasn't prepared.
    Thank you! There is also the fact that Mirai was sick. That had to affect her endurance by Ladie's Finals.

    Quote Originally Posted by demetriosj View Post
    She probably should have been placed even lower with that mistake-riddled program..........
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    I'm repeating this ad nauseam but I feel everyone needs to get the point - Last year, Mirai was still UR'ing badly at CoC but she had turned it around (mostly) by NHK, the final GP of the season and even fully rotated the 3-3 in the SP. Her Nationals SP was stellar where she fully rotated the 3-3 again and frankly was a victim of the USFSA's love affair w/ Agnes. She fell apart in the LP but, as I found out after the fact, that probably had to do w/ being ill.

    Let's Monday Morning Quarterback on Monday Morning, the day after Nationals
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    THIS!

  15. #795
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    Most of the URs were harsh and unwarranted. The only thing in her SP that should have gotten an < was the triple toe. That's it.
    Thank you for seeing what I see.

    In the FS, the only glaring UR/DG were the 3T in her combo and the two-footed 3F
    Her lutz edge and rotation looked good to me. and the call on her 2T is a joke. I've seen smaller jumps ratified as doubles

  16. #796

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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    I was also going to say this too. Why are people bringing things up that were said ages ago and haven't been brought up by her coaches in two years? Frank didn't say a word about her work ethic the entire 2011-2012 season.
    For me, the main thing is the fact that we haven't seen any major improvement from Nagasu. She still has some of the same issues she had a few years ago. In terms of work ethic, I think it needs to be illustrated that there's a certain work ethic to hold a job, and then the work ethic to be a champion. Mirai may have a perfectly normal work ethic, but does she have the same kind of work ethic as Kim or Asada has? Or Evan had?

    Same with fitness. Fitness of a normal person and I'm sure even out of shape Mirai is fitter than 99.9% of Americans and the fitness of a major Olympic athelete.

  17. #797

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    Quote Originally Posted by icellist View Post
    Thank you for seeing what I see.

    In the FS, the only glaring UR/DG were the 3T in her combo and the two-footed 3F
    Her lutz edge and rotation looked good to me. and the call on her 2T is a joke. I've seen smaller jumps ratified as doubles
    It doesn't matter what fans see. We are often not looking at the sama footage as the tech panel. They are only allowed to view jumps from the camera mounted at the judges stand. What we see could be from a completely different angle. I really can't image why a tech panel at a Sr. B would be out to get Mirai. Furthermore, people in general do tend to see what they expect to see unless they very consciously fight against it. Mirai has a reputation for UR's so her jumps are more likely to be checked. This doesn't mean a three member panel (probably from three different countries) are all going to conspire to hold Mirai down. What it does mean, is if she is under rotating she may be more likely to get caught than someone who rarely if ever UR's.
    A good rant is cathartic. Ranting is what keeps me sane. They always come from a different place. Take the prime minister, for example. Sometimes when I rant about him, I am angry; other times, I am just severely annoyed - it's an important distinction. - Rick Mercer

  18. #798
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    Sometimes work ethic is not all you need; you need magic too. I have no idea but I would suspect that in terms of training hours, but I would not be surprised if Mao does more than Yuna, yet Yuna has that special spark where she often wins. I think Mirai too has that spark, And if she put in the effort Ashley did, she would be a real challenge. An inspired Mirai has the potential to win an Olympic or world medal - especially if the top people falter (and it would be no stretch for Carolina to falter - she got a 46 in technical marks yesterday). The other Contenders for that 3rd spot have virtually no chance at a medal.

    I am excited to see Mirai at NHK this weekend. She historically has not done well her first GP outing though

    I think the point people are making about Ashley is that she comes out guns glazing at the beginning of the season, it is not that she necessarily is an early season blossomed, but it is just that she skates in the early season like others skate in January. She often does well in the GP, and sometimes not as good later, like in 2010.

  19. #799

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondie12 View Post
    Sometimes work ethic is not all you need; you need magic too. I have no idea but I would suspect that in terms of training hours, but I would not be surprised if Mao does more than Yuna, yet Yuna has that special spark where she often wins. I think Mirai too has that spark, And if she put in the effort Ashley did, she would be a real challenge. An inspired Mirai has the potential to win an Olympic or world medal - especially if the top people falter (and it would be no stretch for Carolina to falter - she got a 46 in technical marks yesterday). The other Contenders for that 3rd spot have virtually no chance at a medal.

    I am excited to see Mirai at NHK this weekend. She historically has not done well her first GP outing though

    I think the point people are making about Ashley is that she comes out guns glazing at the beginning of the season, it is not that she necessarily is an early season blossomed, but it is just that she skates in the early season like others skate in January. She often does well in the GP, and sometimes not as good later, like in 2010.
    Kim by many accounts has an incredible work ethic, as does Mao. In fact I read reports that Orser actually had to tone down Kim's training... Tara was a great competitor surely, but she had a legendary work ethic too. So did Michelle Kwan. The magic and confidence to compete really well, comes partly from knowing you are well trained and prepared.

    The point I'm making is I don't see a lot of competitive fire in Mirai. In terms of I want to win and I'll do what it freaking takes to win. I see that for example in Russia's Julia who clearly hated not winning on the GP circuit last year and came back this year with improvement.

    I see it also in Gold some because she clearly has been working on her issues...

    This all could change and Mirai could decide she really wants it.
    Last edited by bek; 11-04-2013 at 03:59 PM.

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    I was not meaning to imply that Yuna did not have a great work ethic. But I think Mao does too - and I would not be surprised if Mao's is not super crazy with work or at least equal to Yuna. Yet Head to head at their best, Yuna will win because she has the magic

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