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  1. #661
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    A bit off topic, but I believe kwanatic is absolutely right. Historically in the U.S., individuals who look black have been identified as black. And this has even been the case legally. Many Southern states in the 1900-1960 era actually legally defined individuals with any African ancestry, even 1%, as black. You can see that this idea is still current in how people refer to Barack Obama. How often do you hear anyone refer to him as the "44th white president of the U.S."? But all the time in the media and elsewhere, he is known as the "1st black president of the U.S." Either description is just as true as the other, but because of his skin color, people see him as the latter.
    Anyhow, I don't want to offend anyone, but I did just have to agree with what kwanatic said.
    ^ BTW, that is my experience too. ITA

  2. #662

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    Quote Originally Posted by clairecloutier View Post
    How often do you hear anyone refer to him as the "44th white president of the U.S."?
    43rd. Grover Cleveland is 1 person



    (OK, even if he were considered white, people really probably would call him the 44th white president, but it bugs me that Grover Cleveland is counted twice )

    [/off topic rant]

  3. #663
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I've had people ask me, "What are you?" b/c I've been told I look everything from black to Hispanic to mixed race to East African...it's a touchy subject in the community (one I'm not going to get into b/c this is not the place for it).

    The only point I was trying to make (before Siouxdonym forced this tangent) is that there have been very few African American figure skaters at the elite level and that it would be nice to see one emerge in the US.
    You can't really have it both ways.

    Either
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    In my race (yes, I am black FYI), there is not much middle ground. If you look black, society identifies you as black regardless of what other lineage you may have. I know this from personal experience BTW
    or there is a lot of middle ground, society doesn't define you by your looks, you get to choose how to describe yourself on the Census form, and people think that you, kwanatic, look Hispanic or mixed race.

    Not everyone looks at people of unfamiliar or mixed ancestry and immediately tries to categorize them by race. I suspect that there are people who meet you, have no idea what your ancestry is, and don't really care unless you want them to do so.

    By the way, Kristene Musademba doesn't have any ancestors who grew up black in America. Whether the fact that she is American and her father is from Zimbabwe makes her an "African-American," which is what you called her, is, I think, open to debate.

  4. #664
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    or there is a lot of middle ground, society doesn't define you by your looks,
    Not my experience. While a decent number I've come across are reasonable for the most part, others have been quick to judge.

    ___________
    Anyway, we're way OT. There was a google hangout with Christina Gao and she said, among other things, that she plans 3F/3T in the FS at TEB (her next comp). Meanwhile, we'll see Zawadzki this weekend. Curious to get an early look at her and see how she stacks up to Gao and Hicks, although things will likely shift around in a month or so.

  5. #665

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    Quote Originally Posted by RD View Post
    There was a google hangout with Christina Gao and she said, among other things, that she plans 3F/3T in the FS at TEB (her next comp).
    Google Hangout with Christina Gao and Kimmie Meissner (20 mins.): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_EzESgGQBg
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  6. #666
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    You can't really have it both ways.

    Either


    or there is a lot of middle ground, society doesn't define you by your looks, you get to choose how to describe yourself on the Census form, and people think that you, kwanatic, look Hispanic or mixed race.

    Not everyone looks at people of unfamiliar or mixed ancestry and immediately tries to categorize them by race. I suspect that there are people who meet you, have no idea what your ancestry is, and don't really care unless you want them to do so.

    By the way, Kristene Musademba doesn't have any ancestors who grew up black in America. Whether the fact that she is American and her father is from Zimbabwe makes her an "African-American," which is what you called her, is, I think, open to debate.
    ...I am black and yes, I look black but b/c my skin is light and my hair is long and there have been times where people in my community do question whether I'm "all the way" black. To explain that I'd have to get into a discussion concerning discrimination/separation in the black community (and many minority communities) regarding lighter and darker skinned people which is a subject I really don't want to have on a skating forum where we're supposed to be discussing the US ladies...

    It's good that you think people aren't immediately categorized according to their race or skin color but, being a person of color, my experience is different. I don't know if you're white, black, Asian or other, but living in the South as I do, that is my experience.

    Calling her African-American or black is simply semantics. If someone saw Kristine and was asked what race she was, I guarantee you everyone (assuming they weren't blind) would say she was black or African-American. She looks black and is black, but she's also half Filipino...I look black and am black but due to my heritage, I don't look "all the way" black, if there even is such a thing.

    This has skewed so far off topic. I'm over it. Again, my simple point was that no one of African-American/black descent has made it to the elite level of skating since Debi Thomas. That was my main point in all of this. I've made it and now I'm done talking about it.

    ________

    Back OT,

    Good to hear Christina is going for the 3F-3T. I was impressed with how steady she was at SC given how shaky she looked at her summer competitions. If she can get a 3-3 in both programs and hit the rest of her jumps, she's going to be in really good shape. We'll have to see how Agnes does this week. I'm expecting to see Carolina, Kanako and Zijun on the podium but a strong performance from Agnes could land her on the podium.

  7. #667
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    While not making it to the very top group of elite US skaters, I certainly remember Andrea Gardiner (US Junior champ somewhere in the mid/late 1990's and as high as 5th at Seniors in 2000). Also Megan Williams-Stewart who competed at US Senior Nationals a few times in the mid 2000's, and won a gold at Nepela and a silver at Nebelhorn before switching to represent Puerto Rico. Both lovely skaters. Check out the Wikipedia photo of Williams-Stewart on the Nebelhorn podium with Kostner and Lepisto! But no, they never became household names.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Congrats to Ashley and Gracie on their Cover Girl endorsements. I wonder if Ashley is annoyed that Gracie is getting every endorsement she is? Both of them got Nike deals and now both have Cover Girl deals...
    Ashley was the only figure skater chosen by this corporate sponsor - video tweeted by @BPTeamUSA yesterday that includes several clips of Ashley:

    "We’re ready for Sochi. Are you? http://bpolympics.us/100Days #100Days #Sochi2014 #TeamUSA"
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  9. #669
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiejie View Post
    While not making it to the very top group of elite US skaters, I certainly remember Andrea Gardiner (US Junior champ somewhere in the mid/late 1990's and as high as 5th at Seniors in 2000). Also Megan Williams-Stewart who competed at US Senior Nationals a few times in the mid 2000's, and won a gold at Nepela and a silver at Nebelhorn before switching to represent Puerto Rico. Both lovely skaters. Check out the Wikipedia photo of Williams-Stewart on the Nebelhorn podium with Kostner and Lepisto! But no, they never became household names.
    I remember Andrea Gardiner. The first time I went to midwestern sectionals, she beat Alissa Czisny and won.
    I think the highest placement for her was 8th

  10. #670

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    Megan Williams-Stewart was a gorgeous skater, wish we could have seen more of her!
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  11. #671
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    I am pretty sure Gracie will make the US Olympic Team, but I think it is kind of "premature" to show her in an ad for the gams On Demand saying "watch me in Sochi"

    I saw it on On Demand tonight when I was putting on Mickey Mouse Clubhouse for my son.

  12. #672

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    I remember Andrea Gardiner. The first time I went to midwestern sectionals, she beat Alissa Czisny and won.
    I think the highest placement for her was 8th
    She placed 5th in 2000.

  13. #673

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Ashley was the only figure skater chosen by this corporate sponsor - video tweeted by @BPTeamUSA yesterday that includes several clips of Ashley:

    "We’re ready for Sochi. Are you? http://bpolympics.us/100Days #100Days #Sochi2014 #TeamUSA"
    That is one of the best pre Olympic ads I've seen. Very cool!
    A good rant is cathartic. Ranting is what keeps me sane. They always come from a different place. Take the prime minister, for example. Sometimes when I rant about him, I am angry; other times, I am just severely annoyed - it's an important distinction. - Rick Mercer

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    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    I am pretty sure Gracie will make the US Olympic Team, but I think it is kind of "premature" to show her in an ad for the gams On Demand saying "watch me in Sochi"

    I saw it on On Demand tonight when I was putting on Mickey Mouse Clubhouse for my son.
    But has anyone, in any sport, actually been named to the team? They can't very well say "hopefully you will see me in Sochi if I make the team." Ads are made in advance based on best guesses. Shrug.
    A good rant is cathartic. Ranting is what keeps me sane. They always come from a different place. Take the prime minister, for example. Sometimes when I rant about him, I am angry; other times, I am just severely annoyed - it's an important distinction. - Rick Mercer

  15. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipso1 View Post
    She placed 5th in 2000.
    and should have beaten Angela Nikodinov who placed 4th. That means Andrea would have gone to worlds after Sasha predictably bombed junior worlds.

  16. #676
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    Quote Originally Posted by mag View Post
    But has anyone, in any sport, actually been named to the team? They can't very well say "hopefully you will see me in Sochi if I make the team." Ads are made in advance based on best guesses. Shrug.
    Well IMO I don't see anything wrong with saying "aiming for Sochi" or something like that-which is true. And I don't just mean for Gracie-I mean for everyone. She literally says "Watch me in Sochi." She is not even going yet.

  17. #677
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    ^^Barring some kind of a meltdown/injury Gracie's ticket (as well as Ashley's) is already stamped. BUT I do think it's presumptuous to say it...don't want to jinx it. It makes sense from a marketing standpoint though. They can't start running ads a two weeks before the Olympics start and expect to make any kind of impact.

    And I remember Angela G. She was really amazing that year at nationals. Her FS was wonderful

  18. #678
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    Andrea Gardiner - 2000 Nats Free Skate (She takes the ice at approx. 1:52)

  19. #679

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    At 3:55ish of the video above, Andrea does an interesting "hop" in her flying camel, a few rotations into it, that could get called as a difficult variation. I'm not sure she gets enough air on it, and she breaks the camel position perhaps too much right before takeoff, but what she was going for is pretty cool. Someone should bring that back.
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  20. #680
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyn View Post
    Andrea Gardiner - 2000 Nats Free Skate (She takes the ice at approx. 1:52)
    Thanks Cyn! Nice to revisit this one.

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