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  1. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by NadineWhite
    ...it's a joy to see that she's finally come into her own these past few years; i always said she should've won it all when she first debuted on the senior circuit back in '08)
    Keep in mind that if that had happened, Wagner might very well be in a different position than she is now. She made the changes she did BECAUSE the status quo failed her.

    I like her determination and candor. But I wish she'd stop trying too hard...just stay true to her style, perform the necessary tricks (3-3) and let the chips fall. In her defense though - she is one of many who do this, and apparently it is working...

    P.S. This is a criticism I now have of Gold, too...come on, there's more than one type of successful skater out there!

  2. #322
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    ^^I'm not sure which changes you're talking about.

    To be honest, the changes Ashley made to her skater were not that drastic. The main change in Ashley after going to Nicks was that she seemed much more relaxed and calm when she skated. If you watch her programs before Nicks, Ashley always looked a little too excited/anxious when she was on the ice. There was this frantic energy to everything she did and it usually got away from her and she'd make mistakes that would keep her away from the top. Back then she still had nice programs with lovely choreography...she just wasn't presenting herself as well. The confidence and security wasn't there like it is now.

    Ashley's style hasn't really changed over the years. Again, look back at her past programs. The music she picks fits her personality on the ice. It's not a situation like with Gracie where people are trying to turn her into an artistic or elegant skater when she's neither of those things...

  3. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    Ashley said last season that she was planning on cutting back on the appearances this season? She wore herself out. Now she is making appearances at the cost of competition experience. I hope this doesn't backfire.
    On their video blog a couple months David of TSL sort of called Ashley out because she was doing show after show first in Canada on the CSOI then Yuna's show and was scheduled to go to Japan for shows in late July. He was wondering when she was going to start working on those triples triples that she kept saying she was going to do this season since it seemed like she was spending more time doing shows then training. Not sure if it was a coincidence but a few days later Ashley cancelled her trip to Japan saying she needed to start working on her programs.

  4. #324
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    I would hope that Ashley is listening to her coaches first and foremost. She tweeted this photo today:
    Loved being able to work with the incredible David Wilson last week! He makes me such a pretty skater… http://instagram.com/p/enJuPJCr-a/
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    On their video blog a couple months David of TSL sort of called Ashley out because she was doing show after show first in Canada on the CSOI then Yuna's show and was scheduled to go to Japan for shows in late July. He was wondering when she was going to start working on those triples triples that she kept saying she was going to do this season since it seemed like she was spending more time doing shows then training. Not sure if it was a coincidence but a few days later Ashley cancelled her trip to Japan saying she needed to start working on her programs.
    I really doubt Ashley cares about TSL or that host. More likely she was feeling it was too much herself.

  6. #326

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrett View Post
    I really doubt Ashley cares about TSL or that host. More likely she was feeling it was too much herself.
    ITA. What concerns me about a lot of travel and shows (and I'm not referring to Ashley specifically here,) is that it must be very difficult to make sure one is eating properly and getting enough sleep. So not only is the skater losing training time, he or she could also be building up a sleep debt and putting on weight. It must be a really tough call when the money brought in from shows is needed to fund training.
    A good rant is cathartic. Ranting is what keeps me sane. They always come from a different place. Take the prime minister, for example. Sometimes when I rant about him, I am angry; other times, I am just severely annoyed - it's an important distinction. - Rick Mercer

  7. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Polina Edmunds' competition performances in the summer of 2012 were not as consistent as Gold's the year before -- they have different strengths and weaknesses and their situations are not really comparable, IMO. In any case, I think Edmunds' development is right on track and I hope she skates well in Belarus next week and makes the JGP Final.
    Still though, Edmunds scored 170+ at a summer competition in 2012, which was higher than anything Gracie put up in the summer of 2011. And we saw how Edmunds was scored on the JGP a few weeks ago, 113+ for a FS which wasn't close to her best. Her performance at 2013 Nationals was great, it could have very feasibly scored 118 like Gracie's FS did the year before if she had been given credit for her triples which were borderline and at the mercy of the caller, but had she put up a huge score, it would have looked bad for USFS to not send her to JW, which she probably deserved to go to (Yasmin's jumps weren't any more rotated and Polina had stronger programs overall) and probably could have medalled at. She wasn't given the opportunity, USFS already had Gracie as their new star and combined with Wagner and then Gao's new success, and all the other girls in the mix for the Olympic team, they probably didn't want to promote another skater heading into 2014. Maybe that was part of the reason neither Wang or Miller was sent to JW, they likely could have medaled, very possibly silver or even gold given Radionova's SP, and then if they did that in a convincing fashion, it would throw another contender into the mix. Meanwhile Hicks and Siraj didn't have as strong results internationally and were less likely to medal and shake things up regarding Olympic spots in the coming season...

  8. #328
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    Edmunds didn't get to go to junior world because she didn't have a qualifying score to go.
    Whether she deserved to go I don't know but she should have gotten an opportunity to get a qualifying score

    eta: I feel bad for Wang who lost out of an opportunity to go to junior world 2 years in a row.
    First time she placed high enough but the spot went to the person who placed behind her (but went to jgpf), but the year Wang went to jgpf, the spot went to the person who placed higher.

  9. #329

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    Still though, Edmunds scored 170+ at a summer competition in 2012, which was higher than anything Gracie put up in the summer of 2011. And we saw how Edmunds was scored on the JGP a few weeks ago, 113+ for a FS which wasn't close to her best. Her performance at 2013 Nationals was great, it could have very feasibly scored 118 like Gracie's FS did the year before if she had been given credit for her triples which were borderline and at the mercy of the caller, but had she put up a huge score, it would have looked bad for USFS to not send her to JW, which she probably deserved to go to (Yasmin's jumps weren't any more rotated and Polina had stronger programs overall) and probably could have medalled at. She wasn't given the opportunity, USFS already had Gracie as their new star and combined with Wagner and then Gao's new success, and all the other girls in the mix for the Olympic team, they probably didn't want to promote another skater heading into 2014. Maybe that was part of the reason neither Wang or Miller was sent to JW, they likely could have medaled, very possibly silver or even gold given Radionova's SP, and then if they did that in a convincing fashion, it would throw another contender into the mix. Meanwhile Hicks and Siraj didn't have as strong results internationally and were less likely to medal and shake things up regarding Olympic spots in the coming season...
    You certainly have a lot of conspiracy theories. How about we let Polina develop at her own rate?

  10. #330
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    I think Polina along with the rest of the newbies are being held back somewhat but not to their detriment. IMO I think it's fine that Polina didn't go to JW last season. This season she's doing well and is set to have a full run on the JGP which will help her when she finally does make the jump to the senior level.

    Sometimes it's good not to be pushed to the forefront right away. I honestly think Gracie may have benefited from full year of JGP competition. It'd have given her the opportunity to learn to compete without being 100% in the limelight. Instead she had one JGP, went to JW and was thrown onto the senior level the next season. I think she lost a lot of development time b/c there was this mad rush to get her to the senior level as soon as she was eligible.

    Skaters like Polina, Karen and even Angela are lucky to have the time to develop at their own rate. Let them learn to compete, gain the experience, refine their skating, and then come to the senior level. Those girls are being primed for the post-Sochi era of US ladies; for that reason, there's no point in rushing. In the end I think it will work out better for them.

  11. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I think Polina along with the rest of the newbies are being held back somewhat but not to their detriment. IMO I think it's fine that Polina didn't go to JW last season. This season she's doing well and is set to have a full run on the JGP which will help her when she finally does make the jump to the senior level.

    Sometimes it's good not to be pushed to the forefront right away. I honestly think Gracie may have benefited from full year of JGP competition. It'd have given her the opportunity to learn to compete without being 100% in the limelight. Instead she had one JGP, went to JW and was thrown onto the senior level the next season. I think she lost a lot of development time b/c there was this mad rush to get her to the senior level as soon as she was eligible.

    Skaters like Polina, Karen and even Angela are lucky to have the time to develop at their own rate. Let them learn to compete, gain the experience, refine their skating, and then come to the senior level. Those girls are being primed for the post-Sochi era of US ladies; for that reason, there's no point in rushing. In the end I think it will work out better for them.
    Ok in theory, but you're assuming these girls can hang out and wait with no injuries, and that they can afford financially to be held back yet another year.....

    and again, why the mad rush to get Gracie to the senior level as soon as she was eligible???

  12. #332
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    Maybe it was actually HER choice to move up when she did?

  13. #333
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    The take time to develop argument works if a skater's body doesnt change and has no injuries or college plans or other things in the way. And the skater will have multiple peaks in her career and opportunities at the right time.

    Gracie, Agnes and Polina should have received more jgp assignments while junior. They dont need to stay jr year after year, however. The little jr experience to much senior exposure is why people say this is too much too soon

  14. #334
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    Skating is as much about timing as it is talent. Gracie's timing was good b/c the US was/is desperate for another lady to compete at the top. This year I don't think Polina or any of the others would get the same amount of boosting/hype/excitement that Gracie received b/c after Ashley and Gracie (the #1 & #2), there are a number of ladies who are still in the running for that #3 spot who have the experience. Nationals would have to be a total splatfest for the judges to place an inexperienced junior over the number of experienced veterans who are vying for those spots. My guess is the officials would send the newer girls a clear "wait your turn" message with their scores, even if they did skate well at nationals.

    "Wait your turn" isn't always fair but then again that's how the junior phenoms separated the senior ladies.

  15. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic;4000585Nationals would have to be a total splatfest for the judges to place an inexperienced junior over the number of experienced veterans who are vying for those spots. "Wait your turn" isn't always fair but then again that's how the [B
    junior phenoms[/B] separated the senior ladies.
    I hear what you're saying, but why would Gracie, for example, be considered an "experienced veteran"? She was pushed into the senior level only last season...& it's not like she had any sort of breakout season last year. She was hit or miss, nothing special...

  16. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by demetriosj View Post
    I hear what you're saying, but why would Gracie, for example, be considered an "experienced veteran"? She was pushed into the senior level only last season...& it's not like she had any sort of breakout season last year. She was hit or miss, nothing special...
    By the time nationals rolls around she'll have had two full GP seasons so that counts as experience enough. She was a seesaw last year; up one competition, down the next. Box of chocolates: you never know which Gracie you're going to get. But luckily for Gracie (or unlucky depending on how you look at it) she has been tapped as the next "It" girl for US skating. A lot of the attention and promotion has been centered around her b/c the federation is looking to her to be the flagship skater for the post-Sochi era of ladies. She has the most favor with the international judges (USFSA may or may not have something to do with that depending on how much you think politics plays into this sport) and she's a top 10 world finisher. Assuming she gets her jumps under control, Gracie is one of the 3 best bets for the US team.

    There's hope that she'll get over her nerve issues and start delivering. If she has a crap season this year, she still has time to get herself together. Gracie's main aim should be the 2018 games...but if she turns out to be a headcase, her star will fade and the USFSA will move on to one of the other ladies (Polina, Karen, Angela, etc.) as the new "It" girl.

  17. #337

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    Gracie may have bombed in her first GP, but she won silver in her 2nd GP event, finished 6th in her first senior Worlds, and second at the WTT. That wasn't exactly a bad season for a squeaky-new senior with only two junior events to her credit.

  18. #338

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    Quote Originally Posted by demetriosj View Post
    She was hit or miss, nothing special...
    Nothing special really? Her first time out she helped Ashley secure that 3rd spot at Worlds, which had not been done in five seasons. She had the second highest LP in US Nats history under COP. She won a WTT Gold Medal, where her own contributions were signficant. I cannot think of another US lady last year that could help earn that 3rd spot with Ashley's 5th place finish, nor one who could score 130+ in an LP. She had some misses, but the highs made it an extraordinary debut.

  19. #339
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    Sure Gracie is inconsistent but i think the hype over Gracie was here was a girl who wasn't like the Russian babies as in she wasn't 4'7 with tiny jumps and she looked like she had her growth spurts and had these huge jumps like we hadn't seen from a US Lady since Tonya. And considering that few US Ladies were doing 3-3's back in 2011 and Gracie was knocking them out like nobodies business people were willing to overlook the weaker points to her skater and inexperience. It was only a little over two years ago but in 2011 very few skaters internationally were even doing 3-3 combo's regularly. The hype has been unrelenting since then mostly not because of Gracie herself.
    Last edited by Jammers; 09-25-2013 at 04:27 AM.

  20. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    Sure Gracie is inconsistent but i think the hype over Gracie was here was a girl who wasn't like the Russian babies as in she wasn't 4'7.
    What's wrong with being short?!

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