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  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by VarBar View Post
    Is Gracie's program components score any more debatable than the PCS Joshua Farris got at US Figure Skating Classic? Farris with a much weaker technical performance than that of Carriere and especially that of Aaron easily beat both of them on the PC mark. Farris: TES-57.37/PCS-78.34; Aaron: TES-81.88/PCS-75.84. Should we explain Joshua's PCS at an international competition by that he is a pet of the USFSA?
    Farris was totally invested in his program, I wouldn't be surprised if that contributed to him missing most of his jumps. Carriere is a 2nd or 3rd tier skater in the US, and his performance was sloppy anyways even though he rotated a lot more jumps than Farris, his scores are fine. As for Max, he is considered "a jumper" like Gracie and it has been vocalized how he needs to work on the 2nd mark, given that, and that he didn't deliver a clean, inspired performance by any means, I think it is okay that Farris beat him by 2.5 points in PCS.

    The situation with Gracie is different because she beat Cesario and Zawadzki by 5 points in PCS, and skated like a deer in the headlights. Granted, Zawadzki was a mess technically too, but Cesario skated very well and was actually committed to her program. If Max had popped all his jumps open and scored 83+ for PCS (5 points above Farris), I'm sure people would be similarly upset. But the situation is not the same. It would be one thing if Gracie had been totally channelling her inner princess/witch during the program and scored 2.5 points ahead of Cesario for PCS even with the pop-itis, but she wasn't committed to the program and got rewarded a 5 point PCS cushion anyways.

  2. #282
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    Also loving Angela Wang but what happened to her killer 3lz-3t? She won't get very far at US Nats with 3lz-2t....hope she brings the 3-3 in the FS!

  3. #283
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    ^ Yeah, I noticed that Angela's jump technique changed slightly. Her arms are more bent before picking into the ice (particularly her right arm on her lutz) than last season. Ugh did Agnes teach her to do that?!? I hate it so much!

    Either way, Angela's not really a short program skater, so if she is to develop more fully as a medal contender, she will have to work on that.

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    ^If I had to choose one skater and compare her to MK, it would be Angela Wang skating like this ....
    This. Angela is the first skater who really reminds me of Michelle. There's an ease and flow to her skating that Michelle always had. And that ooze quality is undeniable. She's continuing to grow and mature so beautifully and I really really want her do have a break-out season this year. In terms of post-Sochi skaters, I could see her as a national champion and world medalist.

    I think Angela is superior to Gracie at this point. Gracie is all jumps and misguided attempts at artistry; Angela has the jumps as well as lovely presentation and artistry. The only difference is Gracie has the spotlight and backing, though to be honest it doesn't appear to be doing her any good yet...we'll have to see if she gets herself together.



    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    Also loving Angela Wang but what happened to her killer 3lz-3t? She won't get very far at US Nats with 3lz-2t....hope she brings the 3-3 in the FS!
    She has a better success rate of doing her 3-3 in the FS than in the SP so I'm hoping we'll see it too. The SP has always been an issue for her. She'd make mistakes that would knock her down in the standings. Being that it's her first event, I'm glad they went the safer route. Get a few clean SPs under your belt to build your confidence and then go for the tougher content later.

  5. #285
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    [QUOTE=kw
    anatic;3998140]I think Angela is superior to Gracie at this point. Gracie is all jumps and misguided attempts at artistry; Angela has the jumps as well as lovely presentation and artistry. The only difference is Gracie has the spotlight and backing,

    True, she does have the spotlight and backing. I guess the question really is why? What has she really achieved to be getting all the spotlight and backing? (Besides being cute and having a catchy name that the press eats up.)

    Angela, and several other U.S. Ladies, have kick-a triple combinations and artistry too!

  6. #286
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    Well, to be objective for a moment, she is now 6th in the world (and helped us get 3 spots back), hence based on results she is now deserving of more of the hype than some of the other youngsters who have yet to make it that far.

    The attention is on Wagner and Gold, and rightfully so.

  7. #287
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    IMHO, it's hard to make the case that Gold is unfairly hyped while asking for some of the other skaters to be given more attention, particularly those who have accomplished less than Gold has...why not just sit back and let the skaters develop/grow up? This is actually a talking point that I wish TSL would bring up in some of their interviews, while they're at it...do the skaters feel like some get more media attention than others (without naming names), and do they think it's fair ?

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD View Post
    (and helped us get 3 spots back), .
    and getting the 3 spots back also gives both Wagner and Gold much more breathing room in the event they skate crappy programs at Nationals.

    Even if they deserve to be placed much lower with a bad skate, the judges can put them in 3rd, to the detriment of skaters with better skated programs.

  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD View Post
    IMHO, it's hard to make the case that Gold is unfairly hyped while asking for some of the other skaters to be given more attention, particularly those who have accomplished less than Gold has...why not just sit back and let the skaters develop/grow up? This is actually a talking point that I wish TSL would bring up in some of their interviews, while they're at it...do the skaters feel like some get more media attention than others (without naming names), and do they think it's fair ?
    When you look at it on paper, Gracie really hasn't done all that much. She has 2 silver medals (3 if you count last weekend's competition) and a bunch of no podium finishes. She has not won one senior gold medal yet the way they talk about her and hype her up you'd think she was kicking ass in every competition and that's not the case. What she has accomplished is good (silver at nationals, 6th at worlds) but IMO that just shows how far the standard has dropped in the US. It used to be that placing 6th at worlds was a good reason to go stick your head in the sand...but being that the US women are not podium finishers at worlds, 6th place is a reason to throw a party and celebrate. I get it and that's a great accomplishment for her first time there.

    Truth is Gracie is doing fine to say she's going into her second season as a senior. If she had received the same amount of attention that most newbies get coming in, there would be no problem. However, given all of the hype and talk she generated prior to entering the senior ranks and all of the subsequent chatter that continued regarding how amazing she is, I'm sorry, but I'm disappointed by her results. She's not living up to expectations...and that's not entirely her fault. Gracie never said she was going to come in and win everything but, thanks to the Gold PR machine, that's what nearly everyone was expecting to see.

    I never got the hype about Gracie to be honest. I see the big jumps, I see the speed...but that's it. There's nothing else remarkable about her IMO and every time she she fails to deliver I find myself asking, "So what's so great about her again?" I'm still not seeing what everyone else seems (to be desperate) to see...maybe in a few years I'll get it but one year in, I'm still not getting the Grace Gold hype.

  10. #290
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    The U.S is absolutely desperate for the next Michelle Kwan or even the next Sasha Cohen. That is why Gold is being hyped so far beyond realism and shoved down everyones throats. Her coming 2nd at the 2012 World Juniors in a super strong field full of then highly touted young Russians guaranteed her being the new "It" girl for U.S skating. They werent going to try and hype a middle aged skater who hadnt achieved anything truly outstanding (eg- Wagner, Flatt, Nagasu) as that, despite that Wagner was skating very well and the true #1 American at that point, and nor are they going to hype young skaters who might have potential and even look better than Gold in some ways, but have yet to even produce a top Junior result (2nd at World Juniors in a field of supposed future stars). Pretty much even through failures, inconsistency, inability to deliver the jumps which are her only real strength, and mediocre artistry, the hype machine persists and inflated PCS, giddy overenthusiasm for even a single good skate (eg Nationals LP) persist. As a viewer it is a bit nauseating but is also predictable.

  11. #291
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    As for Angela Wang, she finally skates a good SP and then falls 3 times in the FS I think the bad SPs were less damaging. Anyways, her new FS is really nice but the jumps were not there today, was she injured over the summer or something? Good news is that she still has a good shot at qualifying for the JGPF due to her 2nd place in Poland, even though her score wasn't very high, so I'm hopeful her next event will be better.

    Anyways, Gracie. She's talented, but I think a lot of her success and hype comes down to skating well at a convenient time. A lot of it was luck (getting assigned to that last JGP which she ended up winning) and the visibility on the internet and such, also she was on the rise at the exact same time Czisny and Nagasu were slumping and Gao and Zawadzki were showing they weren't ready to take over yet. So, opportunity for Gracie. And her second junior season she actually was very consistent which is when all the hype started, the headcasing and all-over-the-place jumps and placement didn't start until last season, when she was competing as a senior for the first time.

  12. #292

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    Anyways, Gracie. She's talented, but I think a lot of her success and hype comes down to skating well at a convenient time. A lot of it was luck (getting assigned to that last JGP which she ended up winning) and the visibility on the internet and such, also she was on the rise at the exact same time Czisny and Nagasu were slumping and Gao and Zawadzki were showing they weren't ready to take over yet. So, opportunity for Gracie. And her second junior season she actually was very consistent which is when all the hype started, the headcasing and all-over-the-place jumps and placement didn't start until last season, when she was competing as a senior for the first time.
    No. Gold only skated in one JGP. That was in the 2011-2012 season. Then she went to 2012 Junior Worlds and medalled. The next season 2012-2013, she moved up to senior and was not consistent. She didn't have a "very consistent" second junior season. She didn't have a second junior season period. Like Zawadzki, she didn't have a long junior career to figure out competing internationally and work on consistency. She went from USFS reject (not good enough for a JGP due to not making it out of incredibly-stacked Mids the prior year) to USFS Darling because when they finally let her compete, she competed formidably against the Russians.

    I like Gold. I like her jumps, her spins, her power, and her speed. I do think she's getting inflated PCS because of USFS support. Her SS and TR are good, her choreography and interpretation still need a lot of work. She did keep her performance level up at Salt Lake, even as the jumps fell apart. That's a good sign. Hopefully, she'll be able to combine a good performance with the jumps in her next assignment.

  13. #293

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    Gracie needs to just go back to being the jumping machine she can be and worry about becoming a better all around skater after the Olympic season. She wasn't going to medal anyways and at this point making the team should be her single goal this year. If she makes the Olympic team it will be a successful year as far as i'm concerned.

  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by her grace View Post
    No. Gold only skated in one JGP. That was in the 2011-2012 season. Then she went to 2012 Junior Worlds and medalled. The next season 2012-2013, she moved up to senior and was not consistent. She didn't have a "very consistent" second junior season. She didn't have a second junior season period.
    I think pinky meant her second season competing at the junior level domestically. Her first one, she placed 6th at Midwestern sectionals, failing to make nationals. Her second season in junior, she was very consistent, resulting in a jgp assignment which she won, the junior national title, and silver at junior worlds.

  15. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    The situation with Gracie is different because she beat Cesario and Zawadzki by 5 points in PCS, and skated like a deer in the headlights. Granted, Zawadzki was a mess technically too, but Cesario skated very well and was actually committed to her program. If Max had popped all his jumps open and scored 83+ for PCS (5 points above Farris), I'm sure people would be similarly upset. But the situation is not the same. It would be one thing if Gracie had been totally channelling her inner princess/witch during the program and scored 2.5 points ahead of Cesario for PCS even with the pop-itis, but she wasn't committed to the program and got rewarded a 5 point PCS cushion anyways.
    I suppose we will have to agree to disagree because I thought that Gracie attacked her program and that she skated with a lot of speed, energy and power. She didn't look scared to me.

    While Zawadzki was quite a mess technically and Cesario skated very well, the PCS of these two ladies were pretty much the same. lol

  16. #296
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    I didn't realize before that Agnes was behind even LaCoste in the free skate in SLC
    I think her technical advantage has always been executing a good looking 3 lutz with +goe and without edge call. So when the lutzes didn't happen, her TES took a dive. Didn't realize the spins were low level too, yikes.

    ETA: Cesario's TES was low for a 6-triple program, partly because of her spin levels and partly her not being able to repeat the (f)lutz due to the edge call.
    Last edited by jlai; 09-21-2013 at 07:23 PM.

  17. #297
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    Zawadzki article: http://www.teamusa.org/Road-to-Sochi...s-Set-On-Sochi
    “It’s definitely back to the drawing board for me,” Zawadzki said after her performance in Salt Lake City. “My next (competition) isn’t until November so I’ve got a good month and some weeks to get that program done. I need to strategize and figure out what I need to do, what works, what doesn’t work and kind of get my head on straight. I did learn a lot here and I’m definitely going to take that with me to the next competition.”
    Her 2 GP events are Cup of China (Nov. 1-3) and Rostelecom Cup in Moscow (Nov. 22-24).

    On the bright side, Angela Wang landed her opening 3Lz+3T+2T (11.80 points) and 3F (6.10) in her FS at the JGP in Gdansk.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  18. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    On the bright side, Angela Wang landed her opening 3Lz+3T+2T (11.80 points) and 3F (6.10) in her FS at the JGP in Gdansk.
    Wowww!!!

  19. #299

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    Wang
    "You'll find that life is still worthwhile. If you'll just Smile."  --by john turner and geoffrey parsons

  20. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by her grace View Post
    No. Gold only skated in one JGP. That was in the 2011-2012 season. Then she went to 2012 Junior Worlds and medalled. The next season 2012-2013, she moved up to senior and was not consistent. She didn't have a "very consistent" second junior season. She didn't have a second junior season period. Like Zawadzki, she didn't have a long junior career to figure out competing internationally and work on consistency. She went from USFS reject (not good enough for a JGP due to not making it out of incredibly-stacked Mids the prior year) to USFS Darling because when they finally let her compete, she competed formidably against the Russians.
    When I said second junior season, I meant 2011-2012, she skated as a junior in 2010-2011 as well, that was the season she didn't qualify for Nationals. In 2011-2012, she was consistent, last season, she was not. That was the point I was trying to make. She made a name for herself as a JUNIOR lady, which like never happens, when her jump consistency, family media promotions, and a variety of convenient occurrences happening at the same time allowed her to be a top lady before she even competed as a senior at Nationals.

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