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  1. #681
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    Although there have been some partially-black American skaters in the singles field that have reached elite level (Derrick Delmore and Rohene Ward came to mind), I noticed their absence in ice dancing and pairs. Is it because the pools are smaller to begin with for pairs (except Tai Babilonia) and dance? Minorities are at least visible in Canadian ice dancers, but in US I can't think of anyone (ETA: I just remembered Lynn Kriengkriarut is Thai and Naomi Lang is partially native American/Indian).

    ****
    OT: In the south and perhaps most of US, the sentiment about what counts as "black" may still follow the antiquated "one drop rule." I'm not trying to deny kwanatic's experience. However, living in the Washington DC area, I am conditioned to not "judge people by their skin color" (so to speak) or at least keep my mouth shut tight until they tell me what their background is, because my assumptions of people's ethnicity have been proven wrong many, many times (also I'm really bad at guessing people's ethnicity in the first place). Lots of people who look "black" in the US context think of themselves in completely different terms if they are from Latin America, South America, or southeast Asia or ... Polynesia.
    Last edited by Jun Y; 10-31-2013 at 03:35 PM.

  2. #682
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jun Y View Post
    Minorities are at least visible in Canadian ice dancers, but in US I can't think of anyone (ETA: I just remembered Lynn Kriengkriarut is Thai and Naomi Lang is partially native American/Indian).
    Um....Shibs?

  3. #683
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    Quote Originally Posted by siouxdonym View Post
    Um....Shibs?
    LOL. Brain dead.

  4. #684
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jun Y View Post
    Although there have been some partially-black American skaters in the singles field that have reached elite level (Derrick Delmore and Rohene Ward came to mind), I noticed their absence in ice dancing and pairs. Is it because the pools are smaller to begin with for pairs (except Tai Babilonia) and dance? Minorities are at least visible in Canadian ice dancers, but in US I can't think of anyone (ETA: I just remembered Lynn Kriengkriarut is Thai and Naomi Lang is partially native American/Indian).
    Quote Originally Posted by siouxdonym View Post
    Um....Shibs?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jun Y View Post
    LOL. Brain dead.
    Off the top of my head, I can think of the following skaters who medaled in Pairs or Ice Dance at the Senior Level at U.S. Nationals:

    Benjamin Agosto
    Madison Chock
    Amanda Evora
    Rudy Galindo
    Beata Handra
    Kyoko Ina
    Rena Inoue
    Natasha Kuchiki
    Naomi Nari Nam
    Aaron Parchem
    Elizabeth Punsalan
    Kristi Yamaguchi (You may have heard of her. )
    Felicia Zhang
    Last edited by Vagabond; 11-01-2013 at 04:12 AM.

  5. #685

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    There was Condi Rice quite a while back, but she wasn't exactly among the elite... in skating!
    http://figureskating.about.com/od/af...ers/f/rice.htm

  6. #686

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    These "blast from the past" Halloween photos include Christina Gao dressed up as Snow White and Ashley Wagner as a cowgirl: http://www.nbcolympics.com/photos/tr...ay-competition
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  7. #687
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    These "blast from the past" Halloween photos include Christina Gao dressed up as Snow White and Ashley Wagner as a cowgirl: http://www.nbcolympics.com/photos/tr...ay-competition
    I know this is the ladies thread, but Maia and Alex, Meryl, and Max are in there too!

  8. #688
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Off the top of my head, I can think of the following skaters who medaled in Pairs or Ice Dance at the Senior Level at U.S. Nationals:

    Benjamin Agosto
    Madison Chock
    Amanda Evora
    Rudy Galindo
    Beata Handra
    Kyoko Ina
    Rena Inoue
    Natasha Kuchiki
    Naomi Nari Nam
    Aaron Parchem
    Elizabeth Punsalem
    Kristi Yamaguchi (You may have heard of her. )
    Felicia Zhang
    Interesting list. Thanks.

    Wait, Ben Agosto and Liz Punsalan are partial minority? Guess I shouldn't be surprised. All the more reason to keep my mouth shut until people tell me voluntarily about their ancestry ...

  9. #689
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    Ben is half Puerto Rican and Punsalan is part filipino.

  10. #690
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    Agnes was not a consistent jumper before when she was under Zakrajsek. I think it would be a bit unrealistic to expect her to turn into one now.

  11. #691
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jun Y View Post
    Agnes was not a consistent jumper before when she was under Zakrajsek. I think it would be a bit unrealistic to expect her to turn into one now.
    Especially given her performance at COC so far...

    I wonder if the US officials will screw Christina over at nationals again if she continues to perform well on the GP this season and Agnes struggles? Christina looked really good at SC...much better than Agnes looks so far.

  12. #692
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    Gao was not screwed over last year...IMO.

    Have not seen Zawadzki yet so will reserve judgment until I get a chance to see her SP.

  13. #693
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD View Post
    Gao was not screwed over last year...IMO.
    You agreed with her 5th place finish at nationals? I thought the judges lowballed the hell out of her. She had a strong case for 3rd IMO and should not have been 5th again given the two performances she gave.

  14. #694
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    Putting Gao aside, I don't think Agnes has deserved any of her marks. She's not consistent and I don't think her skating is anything to write home about. It's awkward and not the good kind, like Kostner. I hope she gets scored appropriately at home now.

  15. #695

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    Quote Originally Posted by OnyxRose81 View Post
    Putting Gao aside, I don't think Agnes has deserved any of her marks. She's not consistent and I don't think her skating is anything to write home about. It's awkward and not the good kind, like Kostner. I hope she gets scored appropriately at home now.
    I don't have an opinion about Agnes' marks at US nationals, but I would like to point out that consistency means nothing. Skaters are supposed to be marked on what they put out during the competition. If Agnes falls all over the place prior to nationals, but lays down two cleans skates at nationals she should be marked on what she does.
    A good rant is cathartic. Ranting is what keeps me sane. They always come from a different place. Take the prime minister, for example. Sometimes when I rant about him, I am angry; other times, I am just severely annoyed - it's an important distinction. - Rick Mercer

  16. #696
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnyxRose81 View Post
    Putting Gao aside, I don't think Agnes has deserved any of her marks. She's not consistent and I don't think her skating is anything to write home about. It's awkward and not the good kind, like Kostner. I hope she gets scored appropriately at home now.
    Awkward is a good choice of words. Her 2012 short program was so unattractive on so many levels. Sadly it was so overmarked that she could bomb the long and still medal. Then last year she screwed up her short and was still overmarked for it so that she was able to medal again despite giving the worst free skate of the final group. Her Olympic chances rest greatly on the short program. If she gets monster scores again, whether she's clean or not, she can still make the team with her typical mediocre free skate. If she skates a clean short, it's over for the third spot. The judges will give her a tongue bath. If she skates a second flawed short program in a row at nationals, they may finally mark her less favorably.

  17. #697
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    ^Would love to see a team of Ashley, Gracie and Mirai.

    Chipso, agree that Mirai was hosed at Finlandia. I don't know what the judges were looking at on her 1st 3flip in the SP. But, for all of Mirai's flaws, she's doing better right now than Zawadzki and Gao. Hicks may be too 'green' for the team in the eyes of the judges at Nationals. We'll see ...
    If Mirai is On (and she is not on very much these days), she potentially could medal at Sochi. She has the ability to skate like she did in 2010 and especially if others falter she could even win. The same cannot be said of christina or Agnes. Even if the stars align perfectly, it is unlikely that they would win let alone medal.

    Of course I do not mean to say Mirai would medal but if she gets back to her former form (again, very much in doubt ) and she does not head case (also in doubt) she could medal. And USOC cares about medals.... We all have seen how exquisite Mirai can be the few times she is on, in terms if raw talent, probably she and Gracie have the most...

    In terms of medals or the future of skating, I do not see how sending Christina or Agnes helps. They are unlikely to medal. Also, both will likely retire after Sochi, especially Christina, she will be like Rachel. So while either girl may be personally deserving of the spot, if USFS thinks long term they might want to give it to someone who COULD medal (maybe Mirai if she is on & others falter) or a rising star for 2018. Ashley will retire likely so we need 2-3 solid skaters to preserve 3 spots.

  18. #698
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondie12 View Post
    If Mirai is On (and she is not on very much these days), she potentially could medal at Sochi. She has the ability to skate like she did in 2010 and especially if others falter she could even win. The same cannot be said of christina or Agnes. Even if the stars align perfectly, it is unlikely that they would win let alone medal.
    I don't think so. That ship has sailed. What you're saying about Mirai was true four years ago but it simply isn't true anymore. Her reputation has changed from upstart with a very promising future to a veteran who underwhelms time and again. I love Mirai. She's still my favorite of the US ladies but she has just as much chance of winning in Sochi as Christina or Agnes - very little. In fact, I think she has an even lesser chance of winning because unlike Christina or Agnes, she has a much worse shot at being there. The public meltdowns, the mental errors and the constant scrutiny over her two-footed landings are very much against her favor of ever being taken seriously as a top competitor again. Once she fell out of first place and tumbled to, what, 7th, at 2010 worlds, the judges were less forgiving of her weaker qualities. Had she held on for a medal, she may have gone on to have a much better career but...it didn't happen. Again, I love Mirai. It breaks my heart to admit these things but it's true.

  19. #699
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    Yeah, I did not mean that it was likely or even that it would happen, but if Mirai got her act together (which admittedly is very unlikely) she would have the potential to medal. She has the talent but all this stuff gets in the way. There at least was talk of Mirai in the past being top 3 at worlds when she was at her peak. Assuming that Christina and Agnes are now near their peak, no one even talks about them making a world podium and I think if either one win the OGM or even medaled it would be a shock. For either of them to win or medal - let alone win without help from others above them faltering - would be surprising. Admittedly, Mirai medaling in her current state would be surprising too but I think if you had all three girls skating at their peak Mirai has the most potential to beat Mao or Carolina if she skated like she did in 2010, it is a shame she does not skate like she once does because she is a wonderful skater. I am not willing to give up on her just yet. No one expects anything from her - in fact most have the attitude of just giving up on her - so I hope she skates for herself and pulls a surprise. Doubtful she would medal but I think if she gets her head in order she could put up solid numbers this season, we will see how she does in japan next week.

    Agnes has not done well internationally, it seems like she did not do well today and she was 8th at 4 continents last year. Cristina seems to do better internationally but Agnes always beats her at nationals. I don't see either of them having much impact in Sochi, and both will likely just fade out after the Olympics. The best they can probably hope for is a top 7-8 finish in Sochi

  20. #700
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    Honestly I think the best any of Mirai, Agnes, or Christina could hope to do in Sochi is 7th or 8th place, and even that would require them skating light outs, and lots of mistakes. Everyone skating perfectly and none of those three would even be in the top 10. Mirai's opportunity for medals on the big stage is long past at this point; or at the very least it would take a couple years straight of great skating, improving, and regained momentum/recognition to ever reach that stage again. Someone like Wagner would need to skate perfectly and others to mess up (even with her new 3-3s) to medal in Sochi, so even that scenario would be far fetched for Mirai who is miles behind Wagner in USFSA support, reputation and momentum (as well as frankly being the better skater today anyway) at this point.

    With all that said I would like to see Christina go as she is the most likely to skate her best and possibly sneak in that top 10 potential finish the 3rd U.S lady (whoever it is) could get.

    To think Carolina or Mao skating at their peak (which I assume you mean to be skating cleanly with what they currently have planned) could ever lose to Mirai at this point is pure fantasy. Carolina and Mao skating perfectly with all they have now could even make it very close vs a clean Yu Na Kim, as Mao's base value is like 10 points higher than Kim's, and Carolina can roughly match Kim in almost every category of scoring right now. Kim would probably win even in that case (and yes I know it is super unlikely Mao or Carolina would skate cleanly, but the same is true of Mirai) but it would be very close between the three for sure. So to say an inspired Mirai could beat a clean Carolina or Mao, is almost the equivalent of saying an inspired Mirai could possibly beat a clean Yu Na Kim right now which is a huge

    Mirai is not as good a skater as 2010 by a long shot even on her best day, and even in 2010 she did not medal at the Games with her best performances, and points wise wasnt particularly close Even if one thinks she should have (and I would have given her the bronze possibly) it would only be 5 times more likely she was underplaced/robbed of a certain placing than it was back then, when there was atleast no strong American clearly above her, Flatt being National Champ aside.
    Last edited by judgejudy27; 11-01-2013 at 11:23 PM.

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