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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleWallie View Post
    So what? Are you doubtful she would have passed through a tough nationals competition? US Nats or Japanese Nats would be a cake-walk for her.
    Not so sure about that. Yes, YuNa scores the highest if she skates her best, but Miki and Mao both have 2 World Titles, skating in the same era as Kim.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyBut View Post
    Not so sure about that. Yes, YuNa scores the highest if she skates her best, but Miki and Mao both have 2 World Titles, skating in the same era as Kim.
    I've always wondered what this fact says more about the sport than Yuna's lack of talent. What would her medal count be today if she skate for Canada or the US for example (with it the typical support system), and that Mao or Miki don't skate for Japan?

    Similarly, would she be so technically strong and consistent today unless she have to?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyBut View Post
    Not so sure about that. Yes, YuNa scores the highest if she skates her best, but Miki and Mao both have 2 World Titles, skating in the same era as Kim.
    Miki having 2 World titles is one of the flukiest things in skating history. The only 2 times she ever beat Yu Na Kim were the 2007 and 2011 Worlds, including any minor events.

    Either way there is absolutely no way Kim would have ever failed to qualify for a Worlds or Olympics skating for any country. Even if Asada (or in a much more unlikely case Ando) occasionaly beat her at Japanese Nationals she would still have been top 3 and always made it to Worlds or Olympics. Imagine Suguri, Suzuki, or Murakami pushing her off a World team, LOL! Never ever going to happen.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    I've always wondered what this fact says more about the sport than Yuna's lack of talent. What would her medal count be today if she skate for Canada or the US for example (with it the typical support system), and that Mao or Miki don't skate for Japan?

    Similarly, would she be so technically strong and consistent today unless she have to?
    No doubt if Yu Na were Japanese and Mao and Miki Korean, Yu Na would have won the 2008 and 2011 Worlds both easily, probably by atleast 10 points.

  5. #45
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    Overall, Yuna has been fairly marked throughout her career (or slightly overmarked in some cases). If anything, Mao is the one that has been undermarked at times.

    2008 Worlds, why should Yuna have "won by 10 points"? She fell on a triple in the SP. Mao did not. In the long, Mao fell on the 3A but Yuna popped a lutz. They both completed 5 clean triples. Same story in 2011, when Yuna made a mistake in the SP while Miki went clean there.

    On the other hand, Mao has been noticably undermarked on quite a few occasions. At 2007 GPF, Mao did a program with a clean 3A AND two clean 3-3s for 7 triples total. Yuna did a clean 3-3 and a clean 2a-3, but fell on a jump, for 5 triples total. Yet Mao barely edged Yuna out that time.

    At 2010 Worlds, Mao got DGed on two of her three 3As (one of which the Eurosport commentators said was definitely rotated, btw). Even with the DGs, Mao's TES was higher than Yuna's, but Yuna still beat her in the LP in PCS with a lackluster performance at a competition where she really didn't want to be there.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyBut View Post
    Not so sure about that. Yes, YuNa scores the highest if she skates her best, but Miki and Mao both have 2 World Titles, skating in the same era as Kim.
    Yuna had the incredible misfortune of being very injured at her first two worlds. People always forget that. Miki and Mao might have had one less world title had a healthy Yuna competed.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuzytalent View Post
    No doubt if Yu Na were Japanese and Mao and Miki Korean, Yu Na would have won the 2008 and 2011 Worlds both easily, probably by atleast 10 points.
    I really dislike statements like this, whether it be about a Japanese, American, Canadian, etc. skater; it's such a slap in the face to the skaters who won. And, you are basically saying that the federations used improper influence to assure their skaters won.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleWallie View Post
    So what? Are you doubtful she would have passed through a tough nationals competition? US Nats or Japanese Nats would be a cake-walk for her.
    US, yes. Not so sure about Japanese. After all, Miki and Mao beat her at Worlds and Yukari Nakano was a close 4th place finisher in 2008. I'm sure she would have made the team but she would have had the added pressure of trying to finish first at her Nationals every year.

  9. #49
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    Not winning your Nationals isnt the end of the World and any of the years she won Worlds or Olympics she was winning Nationals in a cakewalk anyway:

    2009- Nakano won the SP, and 28 year old Fumie won the LP. Nuff said.
    2010- Nobody was coming close to Kim this year, although Nationals was pretty good standard in Japan this year.
    2013- Nothing great was skated at Nationals this year. Didnt Murakami win the LP.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by ponta1 View Post
    I really dislike statements like this, whether it be about a Japanese, American, Canadian, etc. skater; it's such a slap in the face to the skaters who won. And, you are basically saying that the federations used improper influence to assure their skaters won.
    Any 100% human judged event should always be open to scrutiny regardless of the result. The only difference is whether the win is substantial enough to make the difference in the ranking order. Do people have the right to think it should be Lu Chen winning WC '96 over Michelle had there been a Chinese judge on the panel? I think they should because the result is too close to call. In raising this question, it is in no way intended to be a slap on the face for Michelle (who I am a bigger fan of than Lu Chen), and it is a fair question for the Chen's in this sport and for the overall sport's interests. Whether we like it or not, human beings can be inherently biased even through we try our best not to and have even derived rules, references and making protocols to determine the 'acceptable' degree of how we should judge, this does not mean the biases and prejudices does not exist. Why do you think under any human judged legal process, trial by juries can be repeatedly over turned with plausible causes, trials can have appeals after appeals regardless of the verdict? Certain referendums can also be revoked if the results is too close and will only end when certain gap is distinguishable as the majority. These are all 100% human judged events.

    Is it totally inconceivable federations will use influences to assure their skaters win. Don't be overly dramatic with the slap in the face comparison. If the skater truly feel they won fairly, then there's nothing you or I can say matters anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by giselle23 View Post
    US, yes. Not so sure about Japanese. After all, Miki and Mao beat her at Worlds and Yukari Nakano was a close 4th place finisher in 2008. I'm sure she would have made the team but she would have had the added pressure of trying to finish first at her Nationals every year.
    Except consider how JSF has always held Mao over Miki, Akiko and everyone else over the years. If they are to face a Yuna skating also for Japan, I'd be very curious how that will affect the ranking internally. Maybe it comes down to whom the sport agency/sponsors who controls the sport through profiting can determine the direction of the sport.
    Last edited by os168; 08-03-2013 at 10:09 PM.

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