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  1. #21
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    Now, PeterG....lol

  2. #22
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    Yuna is the most dominant skater of her era, but not totally dominant except for the period from the 2009 4CC to the 2010 Olympics, when she went undefeated the whole stretch and set World records at nearly every competition. She may yet exceed that period, though, if she remains undefeated from NRW Trophy to the Sochi Olympics. So far she's won 3 competitions in a row since her comeback, scoring over 200 points each time.

    Dominance under COP is difficult to compare vs. 6.0. Michelle Kwan in some way was more dominant, having won several more World titles, and yet having lost at the Olympics twice in a row, it's not "total" dominance for her either.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleWallie View Post
    Michelle Kwan in some way was more dominant, having won several more World titles, and yet having lost at the Olympics twice in a row, it's not "total" dominance for her either.
    Kwan went to the Olympics three times. Now in baseball....
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Kwan went to the Olympics three times. Now in baseball....
    Three times? How so? She went to the 1994 Olympics as an alternate and did not compete. She withdrew from the 2006 games before the actual competition. She only stepped on actual competitive Olympic ice twice--in 1998 and in 2002.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleWallie View Post
    Three times? How so? She went to the 1994 Olympics as an alternate and did not compete. She withdrew from the 2006 games before the actual competition. She only stepped on actual competitive Olympic ice twice--in 1998 and in 2002.
    But Michelle still went to the 2006 Olympics and practiced there even though she had to withdraw.
    Angie
    “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” ~ Thomas A. Edison

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simone411 View Post
    But Michelle still went to the 2006 Olympics and practiced there even though she had to withdraw.
    True, but she didn't actually compete at those games. That's why I said she lost at the Olympics only "twice in a row".

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleWallie View Post
    Yuna is the most dominant skater of her era, but not totally dominant except for the period from the 2009 4CC to the 2010 Olympics, when she went undefeated the whole stretch and set World records at nearly every competition. She may yet exceed that period, though, if she remains undefeated from NRW Trophy to the Sochi Olympics. So far she's won 3 competitions in a row since her comeback, scoring over 200 points each time.

    Dominance under COP is difficult to compare vs. 6.0. Michelle Kwan in some way was more dominant, having won several more World titles, and yet having lost at the Olympics twice in a row, it's not "total" dominance for her either.
    Its a little skewed because Kwan competed at 12 worlds vs 6 for Kim. Kwan started her dominance at a slightly earlier age because she had a couple of worlds under her belt where she wasn't favored to medal. Kim was expected to win gold at her first senior worlds in 2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lnt175 View Post
    Its a little skewed because Kwan competed at 12 worlds vs 6 for Kim. Kwan started her dominance at a slightly earlier age because she had a couple of worlds under her belt where she wasn't favored to medal. Kim was expected to win gold at her first senior worlds in 2007.
    I'm not so sure about that. Both Mao and Miki were bigger favorites for the World title at the time than Yuna, especially as Worlds was in Japan. It wasn't until she set a record in the Worlds SP that many people thought she might win the title.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleWallie View Post
    I'm not so sure about that. Both Mao and Miki were bigger favorites for the World title at the time than Yuna, especially as Worlds was in Japan. It wasn't until she set a record in the Worlds SP that many people thought she might win the title.
    I could not find polls in that times in FSU So I found golden skate thread at that time
    http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...gles-this-year
    Mao got the most votes. yuna second. other women not listed above third.
    Yuna kim and mao asada were favorite at that season, Mao Asada was a bit more favorite than yuna kim
    Kimmie and Miki Ando were the second favorite

  10. #30
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    Kwan was also not affected by the new age restriction rules which kept Yu-Na (and Mao) out of a few Worlds that she (they) could have attended, IIRC.

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    What impresses me in Kim's career is that even one out of her all international wins & 11 times' WR settings was not achieved in her home country.
    She has done it all without home boost/positive-effect on scores & performance. awesome.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleWallie View Post
    Yuna is the most dominant skater of her era, but not totally dominant except for the period from the 2009 4CC to the 2010 Olympics, when she went undefeated the whole stretch and set World records at nearly every competition. She may yet exceed that period, though, if she remains undefeated from NRW Trophy to the Sochi Olympics. So far she's won 3 competitions in a row since her comeback, scoring over 200 points each time.

    Dominance under COP is difficult to compare vs. 6.0. Michelle Kwan in some way was more dominant, having won several more World titles, and yet having lost at the Olympics twice in a row, it's not "total" dominance for her either.
    Kim has won 3 of the 7 World or Olympic events she was in (43%) but medalled in all. Kwan if we excluded the 94 Worlds has won 5 of the 12 World or Olympic events she was in (42%) but not medalled in all. Kim has won 3 of the 4 Grand Prix finals she was in vs Kwan who won 1 of 5. Kim lost 6 times in 5 seasons if we count 2010-2011 and 2012-2013 as one season due to the limited competition. Kwan lost 15 times in 8 seasons even if we only count her prime period of 95-96 to 2002-2003, and that is completely excluding not only any seasons before and after that time frame when she was still a top skater, but the cheesy pro am losses or USTA sponsored events like Marshalls, Keri Lotion, Hershey Kisses, and other nonsense, which I dont count as real events but which would be a much higher number than 15 if I did. Kim was definitely the more dominant skater.

    If one says Kim has only really dominated from 2009 to now one could say Kwan only dominated the 95-96 season and early 2003. There is no other time one can say Kwan was dominant in anyway. Kwan spent most of 97-98 losing regularly to Tara and seeing Tara win most of the big titles, but managed to win a Worlds where Tara was absent, and win 1 of the combined Nationals/Grand Prix final/Olympics/Worlds Tara was in those 2 years. She barely competed in 99, only doing a bunch of silly pro ams competing vs mostly pro skaters who could only do a triple toe,winning Nationals over a 13 year old, then handily lost Worlds to Maria in her first and only real outing of the season. Then she regularly lost to Slutskaya from 2000-2002 although they split World and Olympic meetings 2-2. Nobody could say she dominated the 2000 or 2001 despite winning Worlds. She didnt even feel like the one to beat either year, and in addition to her defeats (many of them to Irina) had to come from behind or barely win the times she won. Atleast Kim dominated for more than one season in a row which Kwan never really did.
    Last edited by kuzytalent; 07-31-2013 at 05:07 PM.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleWallie View Post
    True, but she didn't actually compete at those games. That's why I said she lost at the Olympics only "twice in a row".
    Okay. But how did she lose? Michelle won Silver and Bronze. She's an Olympic Medalist.
    Angie
    “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” ~ Thomas A. Edison

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simone411 View Post
    Okay. But how did she lose? Michelle won Silver and Bronze. She's an Olympic Medalist.
    Well if that is dominance Kim must be incredibly dominant given that she hasnt missed a podium in any competition in her life thus far, or atleast since her junior National and International career records began being recorded. What is dominant. If being dominant is winning gold at practically every single event you are in for years and years then nobody has been dominant since Katarina Witt, including Kim or Kwan, especialy Kwan. If being dominant is just winning medals and sometimes gold then both Kwan and Kim are dominant, but Kim a bit more.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuzytalent View Post
    Well if that is dominance Kim must be incredibly dominant given that she hasnt missed a podium in any competition in her life thus far, or atleast since her junior National and International career records began being recorded. What is dominant. If being dominant is winning gold at practically every single event you are in for years and years then nobody has been dominant since Katarina Witt, including Kim or Kwan, especialy Kwan. If being dominant is just winning medals and sometimes gold then both Kwan and Kim are dominant, but Kim a bit more.
    I don't know about dominance. I just know that Michelle also has 5 World titles. I like all three of the skaters. Michelle, Yuna and Katarina. Katarina and Michelle were very successful in their time. Yuna is also successful during this day and time. That's how I look at it.
    Angie
    “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” ~ Thomas A. Edison

  16. #36
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    Fair enough. I think it is impossible to dominante to the extent Witt did in this day and age though, which is why even the greatest skaters since like Kim and Kwan cant manage it. Witt skated in an era with alot of great skaters, but it was also a 3 portion era, with heavy protocal based judges, with less risky triples than can end in disaester than today.

    Kim comes as close as anyone can realistically though. Kim is dominant in the sports 3 biggest events- Olympics (biggest), Worlds (second biggest), Grand Prix final (third biggest). Not as dominant as Kwan at Worlds, but still in her own era the dominant one there with by far the best overall record at the event. Kwan is only dominant in the 2nd biggest and doesnt even have the best record of her own era in the 1st and 3rd biggest events. Still in the modern era both are as close to dominant as you can probably get. Even Slutskaya and Asada to an extent. Dominant like Witt in this day and age will never happen again perhaps. Not in singles anyway.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by t.mann View Post
    What impresses me in Kim's career is that even one out of her all international wins & 11 times' WR settings was not achieved in her home country.
    She has done it all without home boost/positive-effect on scores & performance. awesome.
    But on the other hand, she had virtually a bye to the Worlds and Olympics.

    ETA: I think the most dominant ladies figure skater was Carol Heiss (except, of course, Sonia Henie). She won five World Championships in a row (1956-60) and an Olympic gold medal (1960). From 1957 on, she never finished lower than first at any competition.
    Last edited by giselle23; 07-31-2013 at 10:01 PM.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by giselle23 View Post
    But on the other hand, she had virtually a bye to the Worlds and Olympics.

    ETA: I think the most dominant ladies figure skater was Carol Heiss (except, of course, Sonia Henie). She won five World Championships in a row (1956-60) and an Olympic gold medal (1960). From 1957 on, she never finished lower than first at any competition.
    Quote Originally Posted by kuzytalent View Post
    Fair enough. I think it is impossible to dominante to the extent Witt did in this day and age though, which is why even the greatest skaters since like Kim and Kwan cant manage it. Witt skated in an era with alot of great skaters, but it was also a 3 portion era, with heavy protocal based judges, with less risky triples than can end in disaester than today.

    Kim comes as close as anyone can realistically though. Kim is dominant in the sports 3 biggest events- Olympics (biggest), Worlds (second biggest), Grand Prix final (third biggest). Not as dominant as Kwan at Worlds, but still in her own era the dominant one there with by far the best overall record at the event. Kwan is only dominant in the 2nd biggest and doesnt even have the best record of her own era in the 1st and 3rd biggest events. Still in the modern era both are as close to dominant as you can probably get. Even Slutskaya and Asada to an extent. Dominant like Witt in this day and age will never happen again perhaps. Not in singles anyway.
    Thank you so much for sharing and I respect that.

    giselle23, Carol Heiss and Sonia Henie were exceptional skaters.
    Angie
    “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” ~ Thomas A. Edison

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuzytalent View Post
    Fair enough. I think it is impossible to dominante to the extent Witt did in this day and age though, which is why even the greatest skaters since like Kim and Kwan cant manage it. Witt skated in an era with alot of great skaters, but it was also a 3 portion era, with heavy protocal based judges, with less risky triples than can end in disaester than today.

    Kim comes as close as anyone can realistically though. Kim is dominant in the sports 3 biggest events- Olympics (biggest), Worlds (second biggest), Grand Prix final (third biggest). Not as dominant as Kwan at Worlds, but still in her own era the dominant one there with by far the best overall record at the event. Kwan is only dominant in the 2nd biggest and doesnt even have the best record of her own era in the 1st and 3rd biggest events. Still in the modern era both are as close to dominant as you can probably get. Even Slutskaya and Asada to an extent. Dominant like Witt in this day and age will never happen again perhaps. Not in singles anyway.
    Witt also did not compete as much as Kim and Kwan. Yes Witt was incredibly dominant at worlds, Olympics and Euros, and she did have to skate figures which Kwan and Kim did not. Witt did not have many GPs she skated in, no GP finals in those days, and less technical difficulty required in the Sp and LP. So to me it evens out.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by giselle23 View Post
    But on the other hand, she had virtually a bye to the Worlds and Olympics.

    [...]
    So what? Are you doubtful she would have passed through a tough nationals competition? US Nats or Japanese Nats would be a cake-walk for her.

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