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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    What if he killed himself tomorrow because his wife wouldn't stop screaming and crying every time she didn't get her way?
    That doesn't sound like a likely scenario. I agree that "what if someone killed themselves over this" isn't a strong argument, but it doesn't excuse his actions in going public with this. It's mean and unnecessary.

    If you're married to someone awful and the relationship can't be salvaged, then end it. But don't humiliate them like this. The only place where it might be appropriate to share such a thing is if they were in therapy and wanted to talk it out there, or possibly as part of divorce proceedings. Not online to anyone who wants to watch.

    I see they're getting divorced, which is probably for the best. I hope she gets some counseling, because it certainly looks like she needs some serious help.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    I hope she gets some counseling, because it certainly looks like she needs some serious help.
    As does he. She'll need even more help now, in addition to whatever she had before, now she'll probably have major trust issues.

    BigB - I never said this was caused from anxiety - I said that anxiety is one thing than can cause adults (and children) to have meltdowns and react in a way that some would consider to be childish. So can things like HRT, mental issues, a whole range of things.

    My issue here is that, regardless of the fact it's a major tantrum, by an adult, it's a major tantrum IN PRIVATE. She's not in a shopping mall, or airport, she's in her car, with her husband. If he feels he needs to video this to prove to some people why he wants a divorce (even though she is the one who has filed for divorce, though I think he filed for a restraining order), then that's a problem he has, feeling insecure and needing to give others reasons for decisions that are between him and his wife. He took her private meltdown and made it public for his own gain - to humiliate her.
    Last edited by Angelskates; 07-26-2013 at 09:55 AM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    He kept his cool because he had an agenda. He wanted to put it online to humiliate his wife. We have no idea what the real life reaction would be. He doesn't like his wife having tantrums, yet he couldn't think of a better way of dealing with it. Both behaviours are out of line, but his has malice. He could have pulled over and let her out of the truck and told her to get herself to the lake, but that wouldn't make a good video - he needed to keep calm and egging her on and saying how much this was all over nothing. We have no idea what happened before this. Fighting fire with fire in these kinds of case is childish. He wanted to look like the good guy.
    Commenters on Gawker had a good point - why did he let her into the car to begin with, if he was going to do errands and she thought they were going to the lake? If it been a healthy relationship, they would have discussed where they were going BEFORE they started to drive off.

    He wanted to trap her and goad her into reacting badly. This probably isn't the first time he did it either.

    He wanted to prove how crazy she was, and he got it. But it certainly wasn't by honest means. And it doesn't put him in a good light either, since he laughed about ruining her professional reputation. Immature jerk.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I've seen plenty of relationships where one party pokes and pokes at the other until they get a reaction then plays it cool so they look like the sane one. If he really wanted the tantrum to be over saying "you're freaking out over nothing" is not the way to get it to stop. That's a way to provoke someone by telling them they are in the wrong. It's just going to infuriate them even more.
    Yup, it's even got a name: gaslighting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    As does he. She'll need even more help now, in addition to whatever she had before, now she'll probably have major trust issues.

    BigB - I never said this was caused from anxiety - I said that anxiety is one thing than can cause adults (and children) to have meltdowns and react in a way that some would consider to be childish. So can things like HRT, mental issues, a whole range of things.

    My issue here is that, regardless of the fact it's a major tantrum, by an adult, it's a major tantrum IN PRIVATE. She's not in a shopping mall, or airport, she's in her car, with her husband. If he feels he needs to video this to prove to some people why he wants a divorce (even though she is the one who has filed for divorce, though I think he filed for a restraining order), then that's a problem he has, feeling insecure and needing to give others reasons for decisions that are between him and his wife. He took her private meltdown and made it public for his own gain - to humiliate her.
    Yup. I bet most people can really bug out, if provoked enough. Those two are just bad for each other, and getting divorced is the best idea for both of them. I give them that much credit, instead of staying in an abusive and unhealthy relationship.

    But this was a private moment and him putting it out on YouTube instead of just giving it to the divorce judge is beyond the pale.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    Have you ever experienced an anxiety attack? Known anyone with a mental illness? Or just had one of those days? All of these things can mean an adult could have a meltdown.
    At some points during that video I actually thought that this could be an anxiety attack, or a meltdown as part of an agitated depression (I don't think this is an official diagnosis anymore). But I have seen anxiety attacks - adjusting your dress and your hair during the meltdown? Whipping out the smartphone, wanting to text your friends about it / post on facebook at the end of it? Nope, I don't remember people doing that.

    Of course it's simply impossible to determine what really went on. And it's certainly not classy to post this video, it shows a certain callousness, that could also be a sign of a mental problem / personality disorder. Just like her behaviour made me think of this. Or they are just two normal people, who turned out to be incompatible and this was simply the culmination of that fact. I certainly remember getting angry about absolutely stupid stuff in relationships, that normally would never bother me much - and I am pretty even-tempered.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I've seen plenty of relationships where one party pokes and pokes at the other until they get a reaction then plays it cool so they look like the sane one. If he really wanted the tantrum to be over saying "you're freaking out over nothing" is not the way to get it to stop. That's a way to provoke someone by telling them they are in the wrong. It's just going to infuriate them even more.
    Yes, the whole thing reminds me of those parents who try to talk their toddlers out of tantrums; the combination of attention and refusal to take the tantrum seriously always escalate the tantrums.

    Quote Originally Posted by heckles View Post
    Even more creepy is that the wife is a nurse. Not the kind of person you want caring for your Grandma.
    If she does her job well, she can take care of my grandma any time.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Yes, the whole thing reminds me of those parents who try to talk their toddlers out of tantrums; the combination of attention and refusal to take the tantrum seriously always escalate the tantrums.



    If she does her job well, she can take care of my grandma any time.
    As long as Grandma takes her to the lake...and buys her cigarettes.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    If she does her job well, she can take care of my grandma any time.
    I agree, and that's why the publication of the video was so unfair to her. Having a fight with her husband in her free time, even one in which she acts like this, is entirely irrelevant to her ability to do her job. All that should matter in that context is whether she is a good nurse, but she will now be judged based on the video rather than based on her competence and abilities.

    I see the husband as being a fairly small step up from people who publish revenge porn of their exes following a breakup. Some things should stay private.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    All that should matter in that context is whether she is a good nurse, but she will now be judged based on the video rather than based on her competence and abilities.
    Eh, a number of jobs that require contact with vulnerable people involve pre-employment background checks for sound reasons. You wouldn't want a man who molested his own kids working with yours even though his previous victimizing had been done on his own time. We already know that this woman has a serious anxiety issue, a DUI and continued desire to get hammered. She's a lawsuit on legs.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Yes, the whole thing reminds me of those parents who try to talk their toddlers out of tantrums; the combination of attention and refusal to take the tantrum seriously always escalate the tantrums.
    That's because a toddler can't control themselves yet. An adult should. It doesn't matter if you're in private or not. I'd have slapped her.

    And if she's got a DUI and has to pitch a fit to try and dodge the interlock on her car, no, I don't want her working as a nurse. Yeah, MAYBE she had one drink and blew a .08 while actually fine, but somehow I doubt it. I suspect his problem isn't videoing (seriously, don't throw a raging temper tantrum over something as stupid as going to the lake and then complain when you wind up an internet joke) but I heard him talking about how the "budget is you sitting down and dictating to me", so I would guess she's a brat who screams, he's a brat who doesn't want to follow a budget and they fight about money, too.

    (Note I'm operating on the assumption she's sober in the video, but the existence of a DUI means I suspect drinking's more likely than any sort of "anxiety attack." Not every behavior can be excused away because ZOMG DIAGNOSIS.)

  10. #30
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    This was such a set up. Is such staged entrapment even admissible in court? I know that we're suppose to be horrified that she acted so crazy, but behind all of the screaming the basis of the staged argument is he wanted to do one thing, she wanted the other. She may have come off as childish and borderline insane, but he came off as manipulative, cruel, dishonest, disloyal, uncaring. If this was to make her seem the villain, it may have backfired.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    This was such a set up. Is such staged entrapment even admissible in court? I know that we're suppose to be horrified that she acted so crazy, but behind all of the screaming the basis of the staged argument is he wanted to do one thing, she wanted the other. She may have come off as childish and borderline insane, but he came off as manipulative, cruel, dishonest, disloyal, uncaring. If this was to make her seem the villain, it may have backfired.
    ...In a civil suit? Sure. This isn't a criminal trial. If they're in divorce court it's a civil proceeding. And I always kind of laugh at "entrapment" anyway-you wouldn't get trapped if you didn't take the bait (in this case pitch a raging screaming fit like a child). I don't understand the rush to defend her and vilify him-just because she's female doesn't mean automatically she must be an innocent victim. More likely she's a tantrum-throwing harpy (or drunk; again, DUI) and he got fed up, especially if she's good at hiding it in front of others.

  12. #32
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    [QUOTE=berthesghost;3963387She may have come off as childish and borderline insane, but he came off as manipulative, cruel, dishonest, disloyal, uncaring. [/QUOTE]
    yep.
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  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    I'm starting to be very skeptical of many 'viral' videos, I think most of them are as staged as 'reality' tv.
    I agree. This is too staged for me to believe. Everybody wants their fifteen minutes of fame and they don't seem to care how stupid they look getting it.
    I'd rather be thought of as absolutely ridiculous than as absolutely boring.

  14. #34

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    Her behavior is utterly childish and annoying, but his is manipulative and cruel. I don't see how anyone would want to give him a free pass.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    I'd have slapped her.
    Nah, I don't see the point of adding domestic violence to an already effed-up situation.
    Last edited by heckles; 07-26-2013 at 05:10 PM.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    ...In a civil suit? Sure. This isn't a criminal trial. If they're in divorce court it's a civil proceeding. And I always kind of laugh at "entrapment" anyway-you wouldn't get trapped if you didn't take the bait (in this case pitch a raging screaming fit like a child). I don't understand the rush to defend her and vilify him-just because she's female doesn't mean automatically she must be an innocent victim. More likely she's a tantrum-throwing harpy (or drunk; again, DUI) and he got fed up, especially if she's good at hiding it in front of others.
    Because publicly humiliating someone shows what a great upstanding person you are.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Yes, the whole thing reminds me of those parents who try to talk their toddlers out of tantrums; the combination of attention and refusal to take the tantrum seriously always escalate the tantrums.
    I was actually thinking of toddlers when I wrote that among other situations.

    I had a boyfriend once who liked to poke until you reacted. Once he poked at me verbally until I gave him the finger. He timed it so that I was giving him the finger at exactly the same time as everyone in the room was looking in our direction. We were at a Contra dance so it was about 100 people and we were at the front of the line and the caller said something that caused everyone to look at the front of the room in our direction just as I did it. I was mortified (it was a different time with different standards) even though I wasn't really doing anything too horrible. I certainly wasn't having a meltdown or anything. But I definitely felt manipulated. (If I'd had any sense, I would have left him then and not 2 years later, but that's another story.) If I was a different person, perhaps he could have goaded me into having temper tantrums on a regular basis instead of that being the only time he got me.

    I also remember friends where the wife seemed like a complete bitch and the guy seems SO SWEET and we always wondered what he saw in her. I don't remember what caused me to look at it another way but at some point I decided that he must get something out of the relationship (they are still together and it's 35 years later, btw) and since then I've seen many relationships like that and I've noticed that other party does get something out of it.

    Relationships are usually more complicated than there being a Good Guy and a Bad Guy. This relationship certain seems to be one of those and I'd say there is probably two Bad Guys here or at least two people who are very bad for each other and bring out the worst in each other.
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    I just saw that movie, Gaslighting. I don’t know that gaslighting is the same as the “poking”. My dad has been a poker since forever, but he doesn’t exactly make things up, he just likes to provoke people by pushing their hot buttons, bringing something up from 15 years ago, or nagging relentlessly just to get a big reaction. It’s like you can either choose to be a peacemaker or a warmaker, and pokers always choose war.
    What would Jenny do?

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by heckles View Post
    Eh, a number of jobs that require contact with vulnerable people involve pre-employment background checks for sound reasons. You wouldn't want a man who molested his own kids working with yours even though his previous victimizing had been done on his own time.
    I thought someone might bring that up, though the sex offender example really is a bit of a stretch here. But I'll clarify: so long as she does nothing illegal in her private life and this does not reflect any medical issues that might affect her work, it's nobody's business what she does when she is off the clock. Although a DUI may have bearing on her ability to do certain jobs, throwing a tantrum while her husband is driving does not.

    If it's a mental health issue, then it is even more cruel to expose her like this. In that case, what's needed is treatment, not censure.

    We already know that this woman has a serious anxiety issue, a DUI and continued desire to get hammered. She's a lawsuit on legs.
    We know none of those things regarding her job performance; we only know how she behaved in a private dispute with her husband. To assume based on a video (assuming it's not staged, of course) that her professional behavior is identical to her behavior in non-work contexts is problematic. One would imagine that if she behaved like this on the job, she would not have a job.
    Last edited by Zemgirl; 07-26-2013 at 07:43 PM.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    To assume based on a video (assuming it's not staged, of course) that her professional behavior is identical to her behavior in non-work contexts is problematic.
    I'm all for privacy and employers not overstepping their bounds into one's personal life, but this woman's an anesthesia nurse. The last thing a patient needs when put in a vulnerable position--which is what general anesthetic will do to you-- is to have a nutjob in charge.

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