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  1. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    Charles didn't do the job (or only half-assed did it) for years & he didn't get fired.
    I don't think there was as much interest in him as some of the others. Diana relaxed all that and made the Royals more interesting.

  2. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrellH View Post
    Diana relaxed all that and made the Royals more interesting.
    I recall that soon after Diana died and her charity work was being lauded, it was reported that Princess Anne was the royal family member who made the most official appearances a year, logging approximately 500 annually.

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    He kept the protocol, which I wouldn't/couldn't do, and he was a lot more involved in charities over the years than you'd imagine. Not all of his involvement was public-facing, but it included a lot of private parties and presentations to thank the managers of his sponsored charities, and he worked the crowd: he didn't just pull a Paris Hilton and get a pile of $$$ for showing up for 20 minutes. Although he's rarely given credit for it, like Clinton is, he's good at remembering who people are, even the ones who work in his name.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  4. #324

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    Quote Originally Posted by heckles View Post
    I recall that soon after Diana died and her charity work was being lauded, it was reported that Princess Anne was the royal family member who made the most official appearances a year, logging approximately 500 annually.
    Yep. She's chancellor of a university too, amongst other things. Her brothers are all ahead of her in line to the and you'd think she has the least obligation to do it, since she's relatively lowly and her children don't even have royal titles. Clearly she enjoys what she does.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.

  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    Charles didn't do the job (or only half-assed did it) for years & he didn't get fired.
    Where is your evidence for this? Charles was in the Navy for several years, as heirs to the throne are traditionally expected to be. When he left, he was extensively involved in charity work and the usual royal duties (Royal tours, the meet and greet and such). His Princes' Trust has raised more money than most other royal charities and done a lot of good in the inner cities and with underprivileged youth. His activities did not really increase with his marriage (apart from a few extra engagements and tours to "introduce" Diana to the world after their marriage), they just got more publicity when Diana was present. Before that he was doing the same work, just more quietly. He always had more engagements and charitable obligations than his wife.

    The hardest working royal (apart from the Queen and the Prince of Wales) has always been Princess Anne- but you would never know it. Like Charles, she doesn't attract the attention of the press like her more glamorous in-laws, but that doesn't mean she's not doing the work.
    I know. But I do not approve. And I am not resigned.
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  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by cygnus View Post
    His activities did not really increase with his marriage (apart from a few extra engagements and tours to "introduce" Diana to the world after their marriage), they just got more publicity when Diana was present. Before that he was doing the same work, just more quietly.


    Whether anyone agrees that his time is well spent or his charities the best use of the money, or whether they think the money that goes directly or indirectly to the Royal Family shouldn't go to infrastructure and the social safety net and their vast holdings turned over to the state is another story, but he's never been a slacker.

    There was an article in Vanity Fair in August 2011 (The Trouble with Andrew in which Edward Klein wrote,

    The story goes back to 1992...the then lord chamberlain, Lord Airlie, established a secretive discussion procedure called the Way Ahead Group, which is chaired by the Queen and consists of senior courtiers and senior working royals. (The working royals reportedly include the Queen and Prince Philip, Prince Charles, Princess Anne, Prince Andrew, Prince Edward, Prince William, and Prince Harry.) The Way Ahead Group convenes twice a year, doesn’t keep minutes of its meetings, and deals only with such paramount issues as primogeniture, the feudal rule by which the Crown passes to the eldest male heir.

    After its initial meeting in 1992, the group made several precedent-shattering decisions. The Queen and Prince Charles volunteered to pay taxes on the private income from their vast estates. The Queen agreed to reimburse the government for its annual Civil List grants—totaling almost $2.5 million—to five of her closest living relatives at the time: the Princess Royal (Anne), the Duke of York (Andrew), the Earl of Wessex (Edward), Princess Margaret, and Princess Alice, the Queen’s last surviving aunt. (Currently only the Queen and Prince Philip receive money from the Civil List.) Buckingham Palace was opened to visitors in order to raise money for $65.6 million in repairs to Windsor Castle. And the royal yacht Britannia, with its 19 officers and crew of 217, was later decommissioned and turned into a tourist attraction.
    “My understanding is that Prince Charles was less than happy that Andrew was given the role of trade envoy back in 2001 after he left the navy,” Robert Jobson, author of William & Kate: The Love Story and a royal commentator for NBC News, told me. “When Charles ascends the throne—which he will do despite all the talk to the contrary—he’d like the royal family to be streamlined; he wants a smaller, more cost-effective monarchy. Andrew has made a tremendous effort to keep Beatrice and Eugenie close to the Queen in order to assure their future as fully paid-up members of the Firm, as the royal family is called. In addition to their status as royal highnesses, Andrew has always wanted them to have around-the-clock security and the rank of working royals. But if Charles has his way, the girls will be thrown off the royal payroll and have to fend for themselves. Many of Andrew’s inexcusable actions—consorting with rich oligarchs in North Africa, the Mideast, and the former Soviet Union, and begging friends to bail out Fergie—have been done with his daughters’ welfare in mind.” (A Palace spokesman wouldn’t comment on Charles’s intentions with respect to the princesses.)
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  7. #327

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    Quote Originally Posted by cygnus View Post
    Where is your evidence for this?
    My personal memories.

  8. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    Can member of the royal family refuse to participate? At least the ones who married in knew what they were getting into, but the ones who were born into it- for some people, I cannot think of anything more stress inducing than having to meet-and-greet and make casual chit-chat.

    Some days I think I'd rather do construction work than talk to strangers in person (give me a phone, I can talk to anyone...)
    It's easy enough to get out of the "royal duties" if you have some other career besides owning large estates. A few examples: Prince William of Gloucester (civil servant and diplomat), the Queen's three sons (military service and, for Prince Edward, film production), and Prince Charles' two sons (military service). On the other hand, if you don't have large estates, the income from the Civil List is a great incentive to take up the royal duties; that is no doubt why Prince Edward began undertaking the royal duties when his production company foundered and why his aunt, Princess Margaret, did them as much as she did.

  9. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    It's easy enough to get out of the "royal duties" if you have some other career besides owning large estates. A few examples: Prince William of Gloucester (civil servant and diplomat), the Queen's three sons (military service and, for Prince Edward, film production), and Prince Charles' two sons (military service). On the other hand, if you don't have large estates, the income from the Civil List is a great incentive to take up the royal duties; that is no doubt why Prince Edward began undertaking the royal duties when his production company foundered and why his aunt, Princess Margaret, did them as much as she did.
    William and Harry are not in the military for the purpose of getting out of royal duties. Military service has long been an expectation for the men of the royal family.

    And, as Kwanfan1818 linked above, Edward and others are not paid from the civil list.

  10. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    William and Harry are not in the military for the purpose of getting out of royal duties. Military service has long been an expectation for the men of the royal family.
    Of course getting out of their royal duties is not the reason why any members of the royal family go into the military, but my point was that lounging about in Kensington Palace or Windsor Great Park simply isn't done. Either you go out and do something like serve in the Armed Forces or the Diplomatic Service or you perform the royal duties. If you're a princess, you get time off when you have children, but, after that, it's back to ribbon-cutting and "How lovely to meet you Mrs. So-and-So!"

    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    And, as Kwanfan1818 linked above, Edward and others are not paid from the civil list.
    They still are paid for performing their royal duties, or at least those of the "meet-and-greet" variety. I'm not sure how Edward and Sophie would support themselves if they weren't doing the royal duties.

  11. #331
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    I understand why Kate is Duchess Catherine and Princess William, as opposed to Princess Catherine, but why was Diana known as Princess Diana as opposed to Princess Charles?

  12. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marney0612 View Post
    I understand why Kate is Duchess Catherine and Princess William, as opposed to Princess Catherine, but why was Diana known as Princess Diana as opposed to Princess Charles?
    I think the fact that she was Diana, Princess of Wales - because the Princess of Wales is a special position (being that she will become queen consort) - and the press was lazy just making that into Princess Diana.


    It is my understanding that Kate isn't Duchess Catherine, but Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge. Since she is only titled through her husband. Is that not right?

  13. #333

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    Princess Diana was never correct, it was just what the media and most people called her. She was HRH the Princess of Wales, no first name in her formal title (well, technically I guess, she was HRH the Princess Charles, the Princess of Wales, etc. etc. etc.). Diana, Princess of Wales, was the title she was given after their divorce, as kind of a compromise. Honestly, if you want to get really technical about it, referring to Charles as Prince Charles is not correct, either, he should be HRH the Prince of Wales. Prince Andrew should be HRH the Duke of York. Calling them Prince or Princess Firstname is just easier, so most people end up doing it.

    As for Kate, I think her formal title is HRH the Duchess of Cambridge, again with no first name. The media seems to have settled on calling her Duchess Catherine or Duchess Kate for short, since they can't call her Princess Kate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    It is my understanding that Kate isn't Duchess Catherine, but Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge. Since she is only titled through her husband. Is that not right?
    Yes, that's more appropriate, though probably just "the Duchess of Cambridge" would be the most correct (technically with an HRH before the title). There is no such thing as Duke/Duchess First Name, it is either the title only or first name, title. Just like Sophie Wessex isn't referred to as Countess Sophie. Some peerages (earldom and lower) carry the same title as the last name, but not any Dukedoms that I'm aware of.

    I was amused when the fashion bloggers Tom and Lorenzo started referring to them as Bill and Cathy Cambridge

    Diana, before her marriage, was the Lady Diana Spencer because she was the daughter of an Earl (Earl Spencer - one of those "name and title match" peerages), but she too was not a princess in her own right. The only women in the British royal family who are currently princesses in their own right are the Princess Royal, the Yorkies, and Princess Alexandra.
    Last edited by Zemgirl; 08-08-2013 at 04:45 PM.

  15. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by MLIS View Post
    Princess Diana was never correct, it was just what the media and most people called her. She was HRH the Princess of Wales, no first name in her formal title (well, technically I guess, she was HRH the Princess Charles, the Princess of Wales, etc. etc. etc.). Diana, Princess of Wales, was the title she was given after their divorce, as kind of a compromise. Honestly, if you want to get really technical about it, referring to Charles as Prince Charles is not correct, either, he should be HRH the Prince of Wales. Prince Andrew should be HRH the Duke of York. Calling them Prince or Princess Firstname is just easier, so most people end up doing it.

    As for Kate, I think her formal title is HRH the Duchess of Cambridge, again with no first name. The media seems to have settled on calling her Duchess Catherine or Duchess Kate for short, since they can't call her Princess Kate.
    Those in the media that are not just calling her "Kate Middleton".

    I think the way the titles were written on the birth registry actually is a good guide. William and George, royalty by birth, are HRH Prince William and HRH Prince George. Catherine, royalty by marriage is Catherine, HRH the Duchess of Cambridge. And the palace announced on his birth that the baby is known as HRH Prince George of Cambridge.

  16. #336

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    My understanding is that the Diana, Princess of Wales, or Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge, format is more commonly used for dowagers. If the Duke of Wherever dies and his son inherits the title, then the son's wife becomes the Duchess of Wherever. And the son's mother, the widow of the previous duke, becomes either "HerName, Duchess of Wherever", or "HerName, the dowager Duchess of Wherever". Like on Downtown Abbey. The wife of the current earl is *the* Countess of Grantham. His mother, widow of the previous earl, is Violet, Dowager Countess of Grantham.

  17. #337
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    Another good reference is the British Monarchy's own website - they explain everyone's titles and are quite consistent in how they refer to each member of the family.

  18. #338
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    But, be aware, there are multiple ways that some are addressed on the site in the text.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  19. #339

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    Quote Originally Posted by taf2002 View Post
    My personal memories.
    Given you didn't live in Britain at that time, I would assume your personal memories would be based on what the media reported, rather than your own observations. I think you're mistaken in this case
    One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it's worth watching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by *Jen* View Post
    Given you didn't live in Britain at that time, I would assume your personal memories would be based on what the media reported, rather than your own observations. I think you're mistaken in this case
    Precisely. This link gives a good summary of some of his major engagements prior to his marriage including representing the Queen at funerals, tours in South America, India, Yugoslavia, and Australia; accompanying his mother at the State Opening of Parliament and officially being named Prince Regent in case of her becoming incapacitated.

    http://biography.yourdictionary.com/...rince-of-wales

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