View Poll Results: Who should have won 96 Worlds- Kwan or Chen

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  • Kwan

    73 44.79%
  • Chen

    88 53.99%
  • Slutskaya

    2 1.23%
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  1. #81
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    Even the pairs arent strong spinners. The great Shen & Zhao always struggled with spins, and the Chinese pairs typically have slow spins and lose unision.

    The lovely Li has the best spins of any Chinese lady I have seen. At this point she reminds me of a young Lu Chen only with much better spins, which bodes well for her future. Unfortunately judging by how she was scored at Worlds she might share the same hard fight through much of her career to earn the recogntion she deserves from judges too.

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Even the pairs arent strong spinners. The great Shen & Zhao always struggled with spins, and the Chinese pairs typically have slow spins and lose unision.

    The lovely Li has the best spins of any Chinese lady I have seen. At this point she reminds me of a young Lu Chen only with much better spins, which bodes well for her future. Unfortunately judging by how she was scored at Worlds she might share the same hard fight through much of her career to earn the recogntion she deserves from judges too.
    She is young. I am sure the judges will acknowledge her skills if she continues to skate well.

  3. #83
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    Well, I have always considered this event to be one where whomever was chosen the winner, the judges could not be accused of making a mistake.

    Michelle came out a totally different skater and completed everything with a wonderful, but applied and a somewhat unnatural presentation that was acting, and not reflective of her own personality. She would improve her presentation after this program.

    Chen was better artistically and was actually better in the jumps, as hers were bigger, higher and some even had a delay. However, her footwork and spins were not at the level of Kwan. Artistically, she was in a place where she was skating from her "soul" and was totally moving with the music.

    My vote was for Chen because she was the one with the most maturity and elegance. However, if you choose Kwan and back it up by noting the better spins and footwork and an excellent presentation, fine, I will not argue, as this is a question of taste.
    Last edited by PairSk8Fan; 08-20-2013 at 09:48 PM.

  4. #84

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    IMO, the two should have been given duplicate golds, as both had perfect shorts as well as perfect free skates. I don't think that Chen Lu was robbed because Michelle won, but Michelle wouldn't have been robbed if the judges had gone the other way.

  5. #85

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    The result is very very close, could go either way. Had there been a Chinese judge on the panel, we might have a different world champion, but then we might not able to see or experience Lu Chen's seminal Butterfly lovers at her last Olympics with its sweet bitter feelings and depth of emotional undertone which surely have been inspired by her struggles and views developed from this sport.

    Just curious, if they were to score under IJS point system of today, who would have won? Michelle had the more technical program, but Lulu was the formal world champion.
    Last edited by os168; 08-21-2013 at 09:14 PM.

  6. #86
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    I think Chen should have definitely won. Kwan had improved so much artistically since 1995 that she was now excellent in artistic, and far ahead of everyone but Chen at that point. However Chen was still a big level up in artistry that year skating as she did that night. Chen had much better quality jumps and doing both a triple lutz-triple toe, triple flip-double toe, and triple salchow into a double axel, I was more impressed with her content than Kwan's one extra triple toe too.

    I didnt think Kwans footwork sequence in the long program was better. It was mostly a couple little turns in the same direction.

    The only think Kwan did better was the combination spin and spirals. Everything else was all Chen. I would have given Kwan 5.8, 5.8, and Chen 5.9 technical, 6.0 artistic before Kwan even skated.

  7. #87
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    Chen would have won alot more medals and titles in her career if she wasnt from China, lets face it. She never got a break from the judges in her career or any benefit of doubt. Well almost, the one exception was the 98 Olympics she was gifted the bronze medal as a retirement present.

  8. #88

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    Chen didn't do a Triple Lutz/Triple Toe.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Chen didn't do a Triple Lutz/Triple Toe.
    Yeah, well, assuming she HAD done one ... Figure skating and selective memory go together like peanut butter and jelly.

    O-

  10. #90
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    Chen was the clear winner. I am surprised it is such a close poll. One of many titles and medals Kwan was gifted throughout her career being the judges pet she was.

  11. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickmercer View Post
    Chen was the clear winner. I am surprised it is such a close poll. One of many titles and medals Kwan was gifted throughout her career being the judges pet she was.
    Kwan was not 'gifted' any of her titles. This (96) is the only one that is even open to debate, and not by much. The only reason it's being debated is Chen delivered a sublime artistic performance. Kwan always delivered when it counted- and 5 times it was good enough for her to win the world title, with the exception of the 2002 Olympics (and later the 2005 worlds).

  12. #92
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    I wouldn't have given Kwan either her 1996 or 2000 titles. In 2000 she deserved the long program but had Butyrskaya been 2nd in the long program as she should have been she would have won that year. She also clearly didn't deserve her 1999 World silver where she should have been about 5th and something like 8th or 9th in the short (and she was put 4th, hahaha), or her 2002 Olympic bronze where she was overmarked in both programs.

  13. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickmercer View Post
    I wouldn't have given Kwan either her 1996 or 2000 titles. In 2000 she deserved the long program but had Butyrskaya been 2nd in the long program as she should have been she would have won that year.
    Uh, yeah, but Butryskaya WASN'T in 2nd in the LP. Can we insert some logic into this argument? Please? Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Kwan did enough to win in 2000. Period.

    O-

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickInSanJose View Post
    "KWAN'S ARDENT COUNTRYMEN." I like the sound of that. I think I'll have a T-shirt made with that slogan. That or a button like those "Thank You Michelle" buttons.



    And, I love Lulu too! I also love the way Lulu and Michelle always genuinely showed so much respect for each other. Worlds 1996, a special year in figure skating. Special moments throughout that season which will always reverberate as long as the sport lives and breathes.

  15. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post



    And, I love Lulu too! I also love the way Lulu and Michelle always genuinely showed so much respect for each other. Worlds 1996, a special year in figure skating. Special moments throughout that season which will always reverberate as long as the sport lives and breathes.
    ITA!!!

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickmercer View Post
    I wouldn't have given Kwan either her 1996 or 2000 titles. In 2000 she deserved the long program but had Butyrskaya been 2nd in the long program as she should have been she would have won that year. She also clearly didn't deserve her 1999 World silver where she should have been about 5th and something like 8th or 9th in the short (and she was put 4th, hahaha), or her 2002 Olympic bronze where she was overmarked in both programs.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    The only reason it's being debated is Chen delivered a sublime artistic performance...
    ...and didn't flutz.

  18. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by duane View Post
    ...and didn't flutz.
    In 96 (like in 2002) the judges didn't care about the flutzes. They just gave credit for lutzes.

  19. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by duane View Post
    ...and didn't flutz.
    I am sure that Chen's artistry and clean performance is the only reason why this is even debated by fans. Everything else is just nitpicking in the guise of objective justification.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  20. #100
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    Nobody cared about a flutz back then unless it was an enormous mule kicking flutz like Sarah Hughes (and even then she won the Olympics with a performance that under COP would have probably been credited with 2 clean triples and something like 15th place). Lipinski had a much worse flutz than Kwan and nobody even cared about hers back then, including the judges, other than a few of the die hard Kwan supporting journalists/fans who purposely went out of their way to nitpick her given the standards of the time. The judges didnt even care one bit about Bobek's flutzy/lippy lutz/flip thing she tried which was such a hideously bad jump by 97/98 she wouldnt even dare attempt it if she competed under COP I am sure. Likewise skaters who had an extremely true lutz like Nikidinov, Chen, Suguri, Butyrskaya, were in no way extra credited for that back then, as it simply wasnt important.

    I find since COP came into play, many people are starting to look back on 6.0 competitions through COP eyes though. I dont mean so much this thread, but moreso many of the other recent threads.

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