View Poll Results: Who should have won 96 Worlds- Kwan or Chen

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  • Kwan

    83 38.79%
  • Chen

    129 60.28%
  • Slutskaya

    2 0.93%
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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Kwan was an average spinner, but Chen's spins were a burden to her. It's true and very much undisputed that between the two of them, Kwan was the better spinner and got more credit on her spins. It ended up making the difference in a close race.

    Did you talk with the judges after the competition or how do you know that the spins made the difference?


    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    The same logic applies to Slute vs Sokolova at 2003 Europeans. The less sloppy of the two sloppy skaters won.

    Neither Slutskaya nor Sokolova were sloppy skaters in that competition.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by David21 View Post
    Did you talk with the judges after the competition or how do you know that the spins made the difference?
    That was the most obvious thing Kwan had the advantage over Chen. If you can't even tell, no wonder you thought Slutskaya wasn't sloppy.

    Neither Slutskaya nor Sokolova were sloppy skaters in that competition.
    Did you talk with the judges after the competition or how do you know that they were not sloppy?

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    That was the most obvious thing Kwan had the advantage over Chen. If you can't even tell, no wonder you thought Slutskaya wasn't sloppy.



    Did you talk with the judges after the competition or how do you know that they were not sloppy?
    Out of reps for you..so..

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Did you talk with the judges after the competition or how do you know that they were not sloppy?

    Unlike you, I didn't claim to know for what reason the judges made what decision but you probaly didn't get that.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by David21 View Post
    Unlike you, I didn't claim to know for what reason the judges made what decision but you probaly didn't get that.
    Well, the judges went with Kwan, so take your pick at the things they thought Kwan did better than Lulu.

    Spins is as good a guess as any since Lulu always struggled with her spins and it showed in this competition.

    O-

  6. #66

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    Double post.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Actually if Kwan had not done a 3toe at the very end, she would have closed with a 2axel instead (like she did all season long), which would make her jump count 6 triples and 2 2axels, same as Chen.
    Here is a link to the Championship Series Final where she tried another jump layout, including a 3T/3T. The 3T/3T was actually executed in this clip.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJY67mMo6Ts

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaPug View Post
    Well, the judges went with Kwan, so take your pick at the things they thought Kwan did better than Lulu.

    Spins is as good a guess as any since Lulu always struggled with her spins and it showed in this competition.

    O-

    It's a good guess, but it could have been lots of other things that could have been more important for the judges.
    IIRC, Kwan beat Chen in the 2nd mark. Better technical spins should be reflected in the 1st mark.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lnt175 View Post
    ... Kwan had that extra triple as well.
    Again it was close between them. Chen just had a more beautiful quality, while Kwans artistry was very good, but kind of forced compared to Chen. ... It comes down to preference, and some of the judges liked that Kwan went for that last triple toe.

    As far as speed is concerned Chen had better speed and flow at that point IMO.
    I agree with this analysis. At the time, I thought Chen should have won because her skating was more polished and graceful, while Kwan's seemed a bit slow, solid and studied. This program was a huge leap forward for her but I didn't think it quite fit her yet. (I ws one of those who found it odd seeing such a young (and young-looking) skater in the role of seductress, which perhaps contributed to me not quite believing the performance.) I think it was partly Kwan's PR and partly the extra triple that won it for her. I would have scored it Chen 5.8 6.0, Kwan 5.9 5.8. Nobody else should even be in the conversation for gold and silver.
    Last edited by Susan M; 07-26-2013 at 03:51 AM.

  10. #70
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    I'm amazed that the spins are being emphasized by many, but flutzes are pretty much being ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaPug View Post
    Spins is as good a guess as any since Lulu always struggled with her spins and it showed in this competition.
    Tho her spins were weak in this competition, Lu didn't "always" struggle with spins.

  11. #71
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKmUW8wPB0s#t=133

    2:13-2:16 convinces me it's kwan
    the program is so incredibly nuanced, with a full range of dynamics and a clear story arc. It's also incredibly different from her equally amazing sp, which is in itself a masterpiece.

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by duane View Post
    I'm amazed that the spins are being emphasized by many, but flutzes are pretty much being ignored.



    Tho her spins were weak in this competition, Lu didn't "always" struggle with spins.
    I think it's fair to say Lulu always struggled with her spins, but pulled them off better in some competitions than others. YMMV.

    O-

  13. #73
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    I always thought Chen had one of the worst spins among the top skaters. I don't think I have ever seen her do a sit spin. well I am glad Chen won though.

  14. #74
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    Lulu was gorgeous but I held my breath for every jump expecting her to fall, while Kwan was attack, attack, attack with confidence by the truckload. It was close.
    Last edited by fenway2; 07-26-2013 at 06:10 AM.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by OliviaPug View Post
    I think it's fair to say Lulu always struggled with her spins, but pulled them off better in some competitions than others. YMMV.

    O-
    Her spins at 1995 Worlds were the best she ever did, all things considered (just in my opinion anyway - I did not talk to any judge ). The final flying spin was under-reved but otherwise her spins that night were solid.

    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    I always thought Chen had one of the worst spins among the top skaters. I don't think I have ever seen her do a sit spin. well I am glad Chen won though.
    Well her sit spins were never quite low enough.

  16. #76
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    It's so much apples to apples for comparison in my book. Chen and Kwan were exquisite that night, and each had their own attributes. Their artistry was the crème de la crème. I was incredibly moved by Chen's program; so simple, so delicate, so tactful--not too much, not too little--a perfect balance. And, personally, I liked that it didn't end with a big "kaboom" like most programs. It felt subtle, and almost therapeutic. To quote Peggy's broadcast at the event, "she let us through a dream".

    But, there is only one top spot, and technical is much less subjective than artistic merit, and with an extra triple, Michelle won fairly (really, I think the spins and spirals are excessive hair splitting--this was a decision made in what, three minutes?)

    What an incredibly double edged sword this competition must have been for the judges--to witness, in the same event, two of the greatest ladies performances of all time, and all the while having to pick which one was better.

  17. #77

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    I am a big MK fan, but I believe Chen should have won this on her artistic merit. That performance was sublime. For Michelle it was a great technical performance, but I don't see her artistry as 'mature' at that time. Also as the reigning world champion Chen should have gotten the benefit of the doubt. It was an extremely close competition.

  18. #78

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    Somewhat OT: Are the Chinese skaters usually weak spinners? They are great jumpers, but I wonder if they don't spend enough time practising the spins? I am thinking of top Chinese pairs since Lu is the only singles top skater that comes to my mind. Are there Chinese skaters who are both great jumpers and good spinners?

  19. #79
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    Zijun Li has some nice spins and good jumps

  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    Zijun Li has some nice spins and good jumps
    I forgot about Li.

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