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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by mustafinabars View Post
    Yes, figures being phased out, focusing just on singles, Trenary having already peaked as a free skater and at a technical level nowhere near what Kristi was already capable of, and Ito getting older and having the huge challenge of mantaining her 88-90 level of skating after years on the circuit and wear on tear on the body. It was the perfect storm coming together at once for Kristi if she just dumped pairs. She is far too smart and astute to not have seen that.
    Ito getting older? She was just 2 years older than Kristi. Kristi was 19, so Ito must have been 21 at that time. That's hardly 'old' even for a singles skater. Ito's problem was injuries at that point, but she was still the favorite for the 92 Olympics. Kristi's plan was really for the 94 OGM, but the 91 worlds title fell into her lap due to Ito's injury and the 92 OGM due to the Japanese press destroying their own hope for the OGM.

  2. #42
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    In a way Ito had been a mainstay on the senior circuit since her 1984 Skate Canada win. She had alot more mileage and injuries on her than Yamaguchi, and it started to show in the 90-91 season when she skated sub par at SA losing to Kristi, then having all those problems at worlds. Its a shame really she didn't get to enjoy more years on the amateur competitions after Albertville. It would have been interesting to see if she had been able to continue post 92 with no break in between, with Harding no longer a factor in competitions, and her biggest rivals being Baiul and Kerrigan.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Ito getting older? She was just 2 years older than Kristi. Kristi was 19, so Ito must have been 21 at that time. That's hardly 'old' even for a singles skater. Ito's problem was injuries at that point, but she was still the favorite for the 92 Olympics. Kristi's plan was really for the 94 OGM, but the 91 worlds title fell into her lap due to Ito's injury and the 92 OGM due to the Japanese press destroying their own hope for the OGM.
    Ito lost handily to Yamaguchi at Skate America 1990 too. What was her excuse that time, bed bugs? What would have been the excuse had Ito gone to the 92 Worlds and lost to Kristi (which she probably would have had she been there). From fall 1990 onwards Kristi won 6 of her 9 meetings with Midori so it was hardly luck when she beat her. If you want to limit to just amateur then Kristi won 7 of her 8 programs vs Ito from fall 1990 to winter 1992. Midori hitting all her jumps could potentially beat her, and Tonya Harding hitting all her jumps potentiall could too. But if she didnt skate perfectly she was probably always going to lose against Kristi's complete package of artistic and technical skating which the judges loved, and Kristi was super consistent minus the almost guaranteed triple salchow miss.

    I happen to like Ito more than Kristi but the injuries you refer to are part of skating at the senior level since 1984 which is exactly what I was implying, years at the top level of pounding jumps and injuries are bound to start happening. Just look at what happened to Kwan at the end of her career. Amateur skating back then was not usually for more than 5-6 years at the top level so 2 years is even a long time, but more importantly in mileage Ito had much more on her legs and body than Kristi by that point. Kristi had only started skating at the top level at 89 so she was still a very fresh in terms of wear and tear goes. Plus the level she was at in 89-90 was so insanely high it would be hard for even her to mantain much longer, especialy how many years of great skating she took building up to that point. Kristi knew she could only get better at that point, while Ito had the challenge to even stay at the incredibly high level she was already at, and stay physically and mentally at her best after years at the top level.
    Last edited by mustafinabars; 08-11-2013 at 09:17 PM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lnt175 View Post
    In a way Ito had been a mainstay on the senior circuit since her 1984 Skate Canada win. She had alot more mileage and injuries on her than Yamaguchi, and it started to show in the 90-91 season when she skated sub par at SA losing to Kristi, then having all those problems at worlds. Its a shame really she didn't get to enjoy more years on the amateur competitions after Albertville. It would have been interesting to see if she had been able to continue post 92 with no break in between, with Harding no longer a factor in competitions, and her biggest rivals being Baiul and Kerrigan.
    Sorry I didnt notice your post. You basically summed up what I said but much shorter and more to the point.

    I dont think there is any chance Ito was ever going past 92. She was already pretty much a spent force by 92 although she still had enough skills to win the 92 Olympics if she skated her best, but she was already physically and emotionally spent with amateur competition. She was just trying to hang on for that last crack at the prize she didnt have, and then that was definitely it for her, win or lose. She never had any remote plans as far as I know to go past 92. And given how her comeback in 1996 went, it likely wouldnt have been succcessful for her if she had tried to.

    Then again the field in 96 was alot tougher than it would have been in 94, and she was younger in 94 than 96 (like I said at that point, even 2 years is a big difference) so maybe had she tried a comeback for 94 rather than 96 it would have gone somewhat better, even if she didnt neccessarily win. The comeback in 96 was always a huge mistake, but I dont think poor Midori even wanted to do it either, but the Japanese basically forced it upon her. I dont think had she kept competing straight through to 94 it would have gone well as she clearly needed some time off, but had she come back just for the 94 Japan Nationals and Olympics maybe she could have won the bronze atleast. Definitely better chances than she ever had in her 96 comeback.
    Last edited by mustafinabars; 08-11-2013 at 09:19 PM.

  5. #45

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    There had been some talk [rumor?/trial balloon?/wishful thinking?] in the years between Lillehammer and Nagano that Kristi was considering reinstating and "doing pairs again" with an eye to possibly competing at Nagano because she missed [skating and competing] pairs. I don't remember whether any male skater in particular was mentioned as a possible partner, but it would have been strange (for me, anyway) to see her skating with anyone other than Rudy, despite her performing quite lovely pairs numbers with other partners during her pro career and despite Rudy having moved on with his own singles career. It would have been interesting, anyway, to see how well a team of Yamaguchi & ["insert a name here"] would have done leading up to 1998.

    [Here's the GS thread I mentioned in my previous post: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...dux-circa-2013 . (GS had archived the thread.) Links in the thread go to pics of Kristi & Rudy and also Kristi's daughter Emma & coach Rudy. The pic of Kristi & Rudy shows what looks like possibly only a move toward center ice after an intro, but their lines and extension and turnout are so gorgeous. Gosh, what might have been! (Mods please delete if I'm not allowed to link. Thanks.)]

  6. #46
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    We often talk about how Yamaguchi would have killed the competition in 94 but Ito still had that 3A in 93. I do see a better scenario for her in Lillehammer especially considering the fact that even a half clean performance would challenge Baiul. Of course the stress of competition may have been too much for her at that point from the JSF, and she may have ended up performing like Harding did; a once great skater who was past her peak.

    As for Yamaguchi coming back for Nagano as a pair, didn't she say she was glad she retired after her gold?

  7. #47
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    The 1996-1998 period would have been a great time for Kristi to try a comeback for pairs if she was going to. The field was a joke. By that time she probably would have had a better shot in pairs than singles for the first time ever. Kristi & Rudy could have definitely been challenging for gold by then had they been able to stay together that long.

  8. #48
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    As for Baiul it is hard to know what the judges think when it comes to her. She won the LP at the 93 Worlds with only the 3rd best long program and won the LP at the 94 Olympics with only the 4th best LP. Presumably if someone skated at so far superior a level that it couldnt be denied they would still beat her though. Yamaguchi almost certainly would have, and Ito sufficiently refreshed and with far less pressure than 92 perhaps could have also.

    Ito would probably have needed her triple axel to beat Baiul though since the judges would almost certainly have given way higher artistic scores to Baiul than Ito (I wouldnt but they would) and Ito wouldnt even get the kind of also very high artistic scores Kerrigan got in still losing to Baiul despite far outjumping her. Baiul did land only 3 clean triples in Lillehammer, but because she was Mrs. Emperors New Clothes during her brief amateur career that is probably the equivalent of 6 clean triples in the judges eyes.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lnt175 View Post
    . . .
    As for Yamaguchi coming back for Nagano as a pair, didn't she say she was glad she retired after her gold?
    Found a couple of extremely old articles re: Kristi considering reinstating: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...nicks-olympics & http://articles.baltimoresun.com/199...-gold-medalist . (Both articles are from the 1990's.)

    Very interesting reading. I never knew that Kristi had had a tryout with Scott Wendland. He had been Jenni Meno's partner prior to her teaming up with Sand.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by easilydistracte View Post
    Found a couple of extremely old articles re: Kristi considering reinstating: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...nicks-olympics & http://articles.baltimoresun.com/199...-gold-medalist . (Both articles are from the 1990's.)

    Very interesting reading. I never knew that Kristi had had a tryout with Scott Wendland. He had been Jenni Meno's partner prior to her teaming up with Sand.
    Yes never knew that either. Also whats interesting here is how she says she felt not alot of pressure in Albertville, but would for Lillehammer. I always thought the pressure was big on Kristi going into those games, although she did share it with Harding who was also expected to win gold.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mustafinabars View Post
    As for Baiul it is hard to know what the judges think when it comes to her. She won the LP at the 93 Worlds with only the 3rd best long program and won the LP at the 94 Olympics with only the 4th best LP. Presumably if someone skated at so far superior a level that it couldnt be denied they would still beat her though. Yamaguchi almost certainly would have, and Ito sufficiently refreshed and with far less pressure than 92 perhaps could have also.

    Ito would probably have needed her triple axel to beat Baiul though since the judges would almost certainly have given way higher artistic scores to Baiul than Ito (I wouldnt but they would) and Ito wouldnt even get the kind of also very high artistic scores Kerrigan got in still losing to Baiul despite far outjumping her. Baiul did land only 3 clean triples in Lillehammer, but because she was Mrs. Emperors New Clothes during her brief amateur career that is probably the equivalent of 6 clean triples in the judges eyes.
    I think the judges also credited Baiul with the last triple toe, and partial credit on the 3F. They basically did everything they could to justify giving similar/higher tech marks than Kerrigan. How interesting would it have been with both Ito and Yamaguchi back in 94. That would have raised the bar incredibly, and Baiul wouldn't have been scoring anywhere as high as she did.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by easilydistracte View Post
    Found a couple of extremely old articles re: Kristi considering reinstating: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...nicks-olympics & http://articles.baltimoresun.com/199...-gold-medalist . (Both articles are from the 1990's.)

    Very interesting reading. I never knew that Kristi had had a tryout with Scott Wendland. He had been Jenni Meno's partner prior to her teaming up with Sand.
    I wonder why Kristi thought about making the Olympic team in Pairs in 1994? She would have had no chance for a medal but if she did singles again she would have been a huge favorite and became a legend if she had won.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lnt175 View Post
    Yes never knew that either. Also whats interesting here is how she says she felt not alot of pressure in Albertville, but would for Lillehammer. I always thought the pressure was big on Kristi going into those games, although she did share it with Harding who was also expected to win gold.
    Yamaguchi was a favorite for gold in Albertville since she was reigning World Champion, but she was just one of 3 favorites along with Ito and Harding. If anything Ito was the slight gold medal favorite, not her. However for Lillehammer Yamaguchi would have been the overwhelming favorite for gold (even if Ito also returned as she had barely competed even professionally since Albertville). That is why she probably feels she would have had more pressure for Lillehammer.

  14. #54
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    Kristi and Rudi did some unreal incredible singles elements in their programs. Even from when they were juniors. Side by side triple flips, in sequence followed by side by side triple toes. TOTALLY RIDIC!!

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