View Poll Results: Best ice dance team ever

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  • Torvill & Dean

    115 28.26%
  • Klimova & Ponomarenko

    74 18.18%
  • Gritschuk & Platov

    28 6.88%
  • Usova & Zhulin

    4 0.98%
  • Krylova & Ovsiannikov

    5 1.23%
  • Bestiamanova & Bukin

    4 0.98%
  • Pahkomova & Gorshkov

    3 0.74%
  • Bourne & Kraatz

    2 0.49%
  • Anissina & Peizerat

    9 2.21%
  • Virtue & Moir

    109 26.78%
  • Davis & White

    53 13.02%
  • other

    1 0.25%
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Results 241 to 258 of 258
  1. #241
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    Blumberg & Seibert were by far my favorite dance team of the first half of the 80s. Ice dance is easily the most subjective sport.
    Yes, it is . Actually I think Blumberg & Seibert deserved bronze in Sarajevo, not Klimova and Ponomarenko.

  2. #242
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    B&S deserved the silver in Sarajevo! There is no way Bestiamanova & Bukin should have beaten them. 2 judges did have B&S 2nd btw, while not a single one had K&P 2nd. I might have had K&P ahead of B&B too and given B&B no medal there.

    B&S also deserved the silver hands down at the 83 worlds, in fact even more than the 84 Olympics. They easily crushed B&S in all the dances up until the FD, and then were somehow dropped to 3rd by barely losing to B&B in the FD, even after a great free dance skate. It was a travesty.

    What hurt B&S was there was already T&D up there, and that probably annoyed the Soviet heirarchy so B&S were often the sacrificial lambs. That plus their proneness to big falls in major events. At the 81 worlds they were had a chance to win atleast silver at worlds, and maybe even challenge T&D for the gold, and took a huge fall and ended up 4th behind old Moiseeva & Minenkov and B&B. They had other costly slips. So even when at the 83 worlds and 84 Olympics they didnt have them and performed outstandingly the dye had been cast. They lost any chance to ever challenge T&D and fell behind B&B in the world ranks for good with their falls in early year events, and with the Soviets always wanting multiple medalists and atleast the silver medal, they were often then shafted downwards further for politics.

  3. #243
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    B&S definitely deserved silver at the 83 Worlds and 84 Olympics. I had K&P for the bronze in Sarajeva though ahead of B&B. For me, B&B were just kind of cheekily dancing on top of the ice rather than using the ice to demonstrate any real edge work like T&D and B&S did.

  4. #244
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    If you count the Olympic team event, D/W didn't dominate V/M for as long as people say, even if they outscored V/M, D/W were still behind V/M in medal as they won bronze and V/M won silver and that is why V/M are more decorated Olympians than D/W 1 gold/2silvers is worth more than a medal of each colour or a gold and a bronze. Without the team even it is different. T&D had it worse they got bronze - even with their problems U&Z and G&P still beat Olympic champions.
    Are you really serious with this team event?

  5. #245
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    I think the team achievement has some merits. Especialy when you turned in dominant skating to help your team win the gold or their given medal in a big way like Lipnitskaya or V&T. When you get crushed and beaten by more points than you were in the individual, and are closer to the 3rd placed Russian dancers of the gold medal team than to the individual winners as V&M were in the team event, your team silver vs the team bronze is not really an edge however.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I think the team achievement has some merits. Especialy when you turned in dominant skating to help your team win the gold or their given medal in a big way like Lipnitskaya or V&T. When you get crushed and beaten by more points than you were in the individual, and are closer to the 3rd placed Russian dancers of the gold medal team than to the individual winners as V&M were in the team event, your team silver vs the team bronze is not really an edge however.
    Exactly. The fact that D&W so clearly beat V&M in the team event kind of makes the whole argument laughable.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xela M View Post
    Exactly. The fact that D&W so clearly beat V&M in the team event kind of makes the whole argument laughable.
    But D&W still got bronze overall though. Does that not matter?. If you focus only (emphasis on only) on the overall standings in the team event and not the individual standing in the TE, that technically makes D/W's dominance over V/M shorter as V/M (team Canada) have silver and D/W (team USA) have bronze. But at the same time the team event is different. However, To say that V&M team silver is not an accomplishment to D&W's team broze because because D/W scored higher and V&M were closer to I/K is like saying C&L's world gold is not an accomplishment because I/K scored higher than them in the FD by over 3 points and because their FD score was closer to W/P who were third in the FD and that is not fair to say. There obviously are some differences with the team event but still to say that those aren't an accomplishment or don't count is erroneous.
    Last edited by parapluies; 04-20-2014 at 11:13 PM.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by parapluies View Post
    But D&W still got bronze overall though. Does that not matter?. If you focus only (emphasis on only) on the overall standings in the team event and not the individual standing in the TE, that technically makes D/W's dominance over V/M shorter as V/M (team Canada) have silver and D/W (team USA) have bronze. But at the same time the team event is different. However, To say that V&M team silver is not an accomplishment to D&W's team broze because because D/W scored higher and V&M were closer to I/K is like saying C&L's world gold is not an accomplishment because I/K scored higher than them in the FD by over 3 points and because their FD score was closer to W/P who were third in the FD and that is not fair to say. There obviously are some differences with the team event but still to say that those aren't an accomplishment or don't count is erroneous.

    No it is not the same thing as C&L still clearly outperformed I&K overall at worlds. They skated 2 very strong programs, while I&K skated one excellent one and one very poor one, and even with visibly inflated PCS and "hold up" attempt by the judges still finished 4th to C&L's 1st overall.

    V&M in no way outperformed D&W in the team event at the Olympics or were even close to doing so.

  9. #249

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    Quote Originally Posted by parapluies View Post
    But D&W still got bronze overall though. Does that not matter?. If you focus only (emphasis on only) on the overall standings in the team event and not the individual standing in the TE, that technically makes D/W's dominance over V/M shorter as V/M (team Canada) have silver and D/W (team USA) have bronze. But at the same time the team event is different. However, To say that V&M team silver is not an accomplishment to D&W's team broze because because D/W scored higher and V&M were closer to I/K is like saying C&L's world gold is not an accomplishment because I/K scored higher than them in the FD by over 3 points and because their FD score was closer to W/P who were third in the FD and that is not fair to say. There obviously are some differences with the team event but still to say that those aren't an accomplishment or don't count is erroneous.
    I think you're trying too hard. The team medals just aren't persuasive in an argument where you're trying to compare individual achievements of two skaters/teams. The C/L v. I/K comparison doesn't fit because those are still all about the individual achievement of C/L and I/K.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I think you're trying too hard. The team medals just aren't persuasive in an argument where you're trying to compare individual achievements of two skaters/teams. The C/L v. I/K comparison doesn't fit because those are still all about the individual achievement of C/L and I/K.
    But you still get an Olympic medal in the team event and that is worth more than a World medal right?.... That's not important?
    So the medals in the team event does not count ?at all? Does that mean World Team Throphy does not count as well? If that is so, D/W's win(individually and overall) over V&M in WTT 2012 does not count either, which also shortens their dominance over V/M as well. Obviously there are other factors that determine an overall winner for a world medal (in this case the SD). Likewise, there are also other factors that determine an overall winner in a team event, like other team members performace. The point is that sometimes skaters can score higher than other skaters and beat other skaters but overall can still be below them in the standings because the skater either performed poorly in other segments (in the case of I/K SD at 2014 Worlds) or the skaters team members performed poorly in their respective segments (in the case of Team USA at the Team event) but that does not take away the accomplishment of the skater's they beat and the skater that placed above them. To clarify, just because Skater A outscored Skater B yet still placed below them because of certain circumstances (such as poor performances in a certain segment, team or individual) does not invalidate skater B's placement above skater A. It is ahrd to compare the team event to an individual event that is true but that does not mean there aren't similarities.
    Last edited by parapluies; 04-21-2014 at 12:28 AM.

  11. #251
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    If you want to say V&M's team Olympic silver is an achievement above D&W's Olympic bronze that is fine, but it doesnt do anything to undercut D&W's total dominance in competition over V&M the tail part of their careers when individually they still didnt outscore D&W even once or beat them once in an individual competition their last 2 years. I didnt even say I would rate D&W as a better team than V&M either. As my earlier comments I dont believe this, but there is no denying V&M were dominant by another team the final 2 seasons of their career when still in their primes, and this doesnt help their "best ever" case IMHO.

  12. #252

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    Quote Originally Posted by parapluies View Post
    But you still get an Olympic medal in the team event and that is worth more than a World medal right?.... That's not important?
    So the medals in the team event does not count ?at all? Does that mean World Team Throphy does not count as well? If that is so, D/W's win(individually and overall) over V&M in WTT 2012 does not count either, which also shortens their dominance over V/M as well. Obviously there are other factors that determine an overall winner for a world medal (in this case the SD). Likewise, there are also other factors that determine an overall winner in a team event, like other team members performace. The point is that sometimes skaters can score higher than other skaters and beat other skaters but overall can still be below them in the standings because the skater either performed poorly in other segments (in the case of I/K SD at 2014 Worlds) or the skaters team members performed poorly in their respective segments (in the case of Team USA at the Team event) but that does not take away the accomplishment of the skater's they beat and the skater that placed above them. To clarify, just because Skater A outscored Skater B yet still placed below them because of certain circumstances (such as poor performances in a certain segment, team or individual) does not invalidate skater B's placement above skater A. It is ahrd to compare the team event to an individual event that is true but that does not mean there aren't similarities.
    Whatever makes you feel better.

    Sometimes, it's just better to not try to dwell too much on medal count or placements. They don't tell the whole story and you're not obligated to be holden to using that as your basis for determining which skater/team is the best ever. It's a stupid question anyway.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    If you want to say V&M's team Olympic silver is an achievement above D&W's Olympic bronze that is fine, but it doesnt do anything to undercut D&W's total dominance in competition over V&M the tail part of their careers when individually they still didnt outscore D&W even once or beat them once in an individual competition their last 2 years. I didnt even say I would rate D&W as a better team than V&M either. As my earlier comments I dont believe this, but there is no denying V&M were dominant by another team the final 2 seasons of their career when still in their primes, and this doesnt help their "best ever" case IMHO.
    IMO there are sometimes where D/W's total dominence over V/M is questionable, as with other Ice dancers listed in this poll. GPF automatically comes to mind. People can complain all they want that V/M's win in 2012 was questionable because of Moir's mistake but the difference between Worlds 2012 and GPF 2013 is that Moir's mistake wasn't on a element whereas D/W made mistakes on elements (i.e. they had issues with synchronicity) yet still won. It's true that D/W dominated V/M for a while (2 years) but calling it "total" dominance is an exaggeration because total dominance for me would mean beating a skater in ALL segments (short and long) and in everything (such as TES, PCS etc.) and there were times in the past two years where V/M beat D/W in the SD, in TES, etc. This means there were times where it was possible where D/W's could've been defeated. In the past two years, V&m were always constantly pushing and challenging D/W.
    Last edited by parapluies; 04-21-2014 at 03:51 AM.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Whatever makes you feel better.

    Sometimes, it's just better to not try to dwell too much on medal count or placements. They don't tell the whole story and you're not obligated to be holden to using that as your basis for determining which skater/team is the best ever. It's a stupid question anyway.
    Well you are right about medal count...

  15. #255

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    Quote Originally Posted by parapluies View Post
    Well you are right about medal count...
    I don't understand what you're trying to say here. If you think I was making a statement about V/M or D/W, then you're wrong.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    To be honest I couldnt even begin to know their names, which I guess tells you something about what happens to many teams over time. Ice dance for me didnt even start until the Olympics, P&G and Minny & Mo. It is hard to know much about teams who competed before my grandparents were born in a discipline that only entered the Olympics in 1976.
    Yes, that's understandable. Since your experience mirrors that of many fans, it seems that the title of this thread should be changed to "Best Ice Dance Team of the Past 35-40 Years." Even though I don't know anything about them, I suspect some of the early British dancers might be good candidates for best ever.

    Given that Sonja Henie gets only about 3 votes out of hundreds of voters on best lady skater ever polls, I can pretty much ensure you the teams you refer to probably wouldnt get a single vote (kind of crazy when even Bourne & Kraatz get some but it is what it is).
    That's one reason these polls, which can be a lot of fun, don't really count for much. If you really want to know who the greatest teams were, the best way is probably to consult a skating historian, a veteran ice-dance coach, or someone like Dick Button, who is up in years and has been following skating for at least 5 decades.

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Sometimes, it's just better to not try to dwell too much on medal count or placements. They don't tell the whole story and you're not obligated to be holden to using that as your basis for determining which skater/team is the best ever.
    Exactly. It's much easier to count medals and titles, but a lot harder to evaluate a team based on the quality of their performances over many years. That's why teams like Blumberg & Seibert, while they never won any Olympic medals, probably deserve to be higher up on a "greatest ever" list than many teams who did.

  18. #258

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    If you want to say V&M's team Olympic silver is an achievement above D&W's Olympic bronze that is fine, but it doesnt do anything to undercut D&W's total dominance in competition over V&M the tail part of their careers when individually they still didnt outscore D&W even once or beat them once in an individual competition their last 2 years. I didnt even say I would rate D&W as a better team than V&M either. As my earlier comments I dont believe this, but there is no denying V&M were dominant by another team the final 2 seasons of their career when still in their primes, and this doesnt help their "best ever" case IMHO.
    I think this poll is more about ice dance team qualities and what they bring to this sport, then about medals.
    If only medals will count it will be clear GP will win this nomination.
    For example, in my opinion Moiseeva-Minenkov (if you know who they are) were better team, then Linitchuck-Karponosov, who are OGM.
    Or from this season. IMHO, PB are better team, then CL, who are World champions.
    As for Blumberg & Seibert. I think they could consider like best USA team. I think in 1984 Wilson-McCall had better FD (IMHO). And of couse KP in such a young age were simply amazing.

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