View Poll Results: Best ice dance team ever

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  • Torvill & Dean

    115 28.26%
  • Klimova & Ponomarenko

    74 18.18%
  • Gritschuk & Platov

    28 6.88%
  • Usova & Zhulin

    4 0.98%
  • Krylova & Ovsiannikov

    5 1.23%
  • Bestiamanova & Bukin

    4 0.98%
  • Pahkomova & Gorshkov

    3 0.74%
  • Bourne & Kraatz

    2 0.49%
  • Anissina & Peizerat

    9 2.21%
  • Virtue & Moir

    109 26.78%
  • Davis & White

    53 13.02%
  • other

    1 0.25%
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  1. #161
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    Well like I said neither one is winning the poll and D&W are only 4th. So I dont think they are overrated, even if some of the older teams might be underrated.

    Still probably no team in history has had to face a rival that tough. Torvill & Dean faced a nowhere near prime Bestiamanova & Bukin, a baby Klimova & Ponomarenko, and Blumberg & Seibert at a time politics was heavily pro Euro and anti NA in both pairs and dance. Klimova & Ponomarenko faced the much hyped but technically deficient Duchensays, and the Russian understudies and also technically less advanced Usova & Zhulin. Grischuk & Platov faced up and coming Krylova & Ovsiannikov, baby Anissina & Peizerat, and Bourne & Kraatz. Pahkomova & Gorshov faced Moiseeva & Minenkov for only a year or two. Bestiamanova & Bukin faced Klimova & Ponomarenko, but the judges chose to make it no rivalry. K&P were nowhere near their 89-92 level of artistry and innovation anyway though (yet many felt they should have been consistently beating B&B even in 85-88 on their technical superiority alone). No team in history has had to meet the insane technical demands of V&M and D&W they have and delivered with such consistency and perfection time and time again.

  2. #162

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    People look for different things - I would imagine that some like passion, some like innovation - I personally love perfect unison. Can you guess who I voted for? Also as an aside, while Grischuk was the better skater, I was always mesmerized by Platov because of his freakishly long legs.
    ~ Alison

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlisonS View Post
    People look for different things - I would imagine that some like passion, some like innovation - I personally love perfect unison. Can you guess who I voted for? Also as an aside, while Grischuk was the better skater, I was always mesmerized by Platov because of his freakishly long legs.
    If you vote was on perfect unision I would guess it was one of Torvill & Dean, Klimova & Ponomarenko, or Davis & White. Those are probably the three winners of the teams on the poll on that. Maybe Krylova & Ovsiannikov as a possability too.

  4. #164
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    So I dont think they are overrated, even if some of the older teams might be underrated.
    It is a bit strange logic. If some of the past teams are underrated, it means that if they weren't, some other teams would receive less votes, maybe these would be current teams.

    Anyway I don't want to argue. Such polls are created just for fun.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_Fever View Post
    Nice. I tried to find the freedance that made an impression on me in 87, but I don't think its out there. I'm pretty sure they skated to Malagueña, and the outfits were awesome. Paul looked like a matador, and Isabelle looked like a flamenco dancer.
    Do you mean this one:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEJ7pecrAss
    ?

    Well this is the Malaguena one, but it's from Skate America 1986. There are vids on YT from exhibitions in Canada in '87 and from the WC exhibition in Paris in '89 where they skated it, too, but the quality is better with this one IMO.
    The theme and music fitted them perfectly.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shyjosie View Post
    Do you mean this one:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEJ7pecrAss
    ?

    Well this is the Malaguena one, but it's from Skate America 1986. There are vids on YT from exhibitions in Canada in '87 and from the WC exhibition in Paris in '89 where they skated it, too, but the quality is better with this one IMO.
    The theme and music fitted them perfectly.
    Thanks. You found it! That's the freedance I meant. You can see the charisma already, and that was before Christopher Dean got a hold of them. When I walked out of the Freedance event at the '87 World's they were the only team that stuck in my mind. The Duchesnays have always been uniquely suited to any Latin type of number, because they've got just the right look. They took advantage of that many times over the years. The Duchesnays reused at least one freedance that T&D had choreographed for themselves. The Duchesnays did the same number better.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    One of the posters might be Shae Lynn. I always got the impression she sure as heck thought she was the best dancer ever. At times she made Pasha Grischuk seem humble (and sane as far as her self perception goes).
    She seemed deluded. I vaguely recall comments from her after the 97 worlds about how all the top 3 teams were technically all very well matched. Only in her dreams.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by gk_891 View Post
    She seemed deluded. I vaguely recall comments from her after the 97 worlds about how all the top 3 teams were technically all very well matched. Only in her dreams.
    She even said in an interview after they finished dead last at the 99-2000 grand prix final she didnt see anything wrong at all with their performances or programs there.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    She even said in an interview after they finished dead last at the 99-2000 grand prix final she didnt see anything wrong at all with their performances or programs there.
    Wow, she's as deluded as her fans.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by gk_891 View Post
    Wow, she's as deluded as her fans.
    Well I guess even she clued into reality at some point after the interview as she wisely skipped worlds (maybe they were injured but I imagine they could have skated, but probably would have finished about 7th) and begged Tarasova to take them on as their new coach, and did actually work their asses off and greatly improve their skating after. While being coached by her they seemed to wise up and be more in touch with reality in their interviews. They also seemed to finally understand you do yourself no favors bad mouthing the judges, the people who are going to score you in future competitions, in an interview. Dubova and Bourne especialy seemed to enjoy creating an increasingly insular fantasy world for themselves, which idiot Canadian reporters unfortunatly fed into further. Eventually you have to come out of your daydream and face reality though.

    When I first saw their free dance in fall 99 I thought to myself "wow their whole team really has reached trainwreck mode now, this is not going to be pretty."

  11. #171
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    Funny thing was that Dubova and Bourne were almost 'competing' against one another by 2002 as Dubova seemed to be a consultant of some sort for Anissina & Peizerat. Still, I wonder what Dubova must think looking back at her career.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by gk_891 View Post
    Funny thing was that Dubova and Bourne were almost 'competing' against one another by 2002 as Dubova seemed to be a consultant of some sort for Anissina & Peizerat. Still, I wonder what Dubova must think looking back at her career.
    She probably realizes the best thing she could have done for her and herself once Zhulin started sleeping around was get rid of him and pair her with someone else. She also would realize she has to be less emotional and more practical in assessing her own teams and what they needed to do.

    I dont know if her relationship with K&P could have been saved and I am not sure if the problem was even really U&Z. I think it stemmed from some creative differences between them at that point. Dubova didnt seem willing to let them truly explore themselves as artists, which was crazy as their losing the FD to the Duchensays at the Halifax worlds indicated from the judges that is clearly what they not only wanted to do, but had to do at that point. That Dubova didnt see the danger of the Duchensays emerging after Halifax worlds, and why K&P badly wanted to expand their style and take greater risks, indicates she was already entering her delusional to reality phase.

  13. #173
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    What was so weird about Dubova was that she gave very traditional ballroom type dances to Klimova & Ponomarenko and Grishuk & Platov but much more passionate, fiery, and theatrical type programs to Usova & Zhulin but with a lot less content. The way I always looked at it was that U&Z were a team who needed to be 'dressed' up to distract away from their lack of content.

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by gk_891 View Post
    What was so weird about Dubova was that she gave very traditional ballroom type dances to Klimova & Ponomarenko and Grishuk & Platov but much more passionate, fiery, and theatrical type programs to Usova & Zhulin but with a lot less content. The way I always looked at it was that U&Z were a team who needed to be 'dressed' up to distract away from their lack of content.
    Yeah I think she did recognize that well. However that doesnt mean it wasnt time for K&P to expand artistically and do something different. Good grief, if she had let them do that many years earlier (like I imagine they wanted to and in fact they said in the aftermath of the fallout they had wanted to), they probably would have beaten B&B for their 86 world title they were so very close to getting anyway, and never looked back after that. Had they stayed with her they would have almost certainly lost the Olympic gold to the Duchensays or/and Usova & Zhulin which would have been a travesty, and it would have been all her fault for restricting them as skaters and the programs they could skate, even as the judges gave them the red signal they wanted more.

  15. #175
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    It was definitely a good thing that K&P took the initiative to expand artistically and move away from someone as stifling as Dubova. Interesting though how as soon as they left her, she let Grishuk & Platov modernize their style. After Zorba the Greek and an Italian folk dance medley, they did a very voidy (and IMO brilliant) FD to a modernized version of Prelude and Allegro by Fritz Kreisler where they represented 2 robots who came to life. I loved that FD as well as their OD that year. I also thought their compulsories were much better than either U&Z or D&D. I honestly would've had them 2nd at those Olympics behind K&P.

  16. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by gk_891 View Post
    It was definitely a good thing that K&P took the initiative to expand artistically and move away from someone as stifling as Dubova. Interesting though how as soon as they left her, she let Grishuk & Platov modernize their style. After Zorba the Greek and an Italian folk dance medley, they did a very voidy (and IMO brilliant) FD to a modernized version of Prelude and Allegro by Fritz Kreisler where they represented 2 robots who came to life. I loved that FD as well as their OD that year. I also thought their compulsories were much better than either U&Z or D&D. I honestly would've had them 2nd at those Olympics behind K&P.
    Me too. I'm not as enamored by U/Z's Four Seasons. I thought they did that sort of dance way better in 1991 with the Theme of Paganini Andrew Lloyd Webber version. In fact, G/P's 1992 programs are actually my personal faves from them, even though I think Libertango is brilliant.

    I also think what hurts Pahkomova & Gorshkov is that there aren't that many videos of them available on Youtube, unlike the other teams. That said, you can watch their Olympics exhibition tango, and it shows what a brilliant dancer she was.

    Interesting to see that just a few days ago, K/P and V/M were pretty much tied (and had been for a long time since this thread is pretty old). Now, V/M's numbers skyrocketed.
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 04-20-2014 at 05:23 AM.
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  17. #177

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    Double post.
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 04-20-2014 at 05:21 AM.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  18. #178
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    To really know who was the best dance team in history, you'd want to talk to someone like Dick Button, who's pretty much seen them all. Most fans who read this board are probably too young to have a balanced opinion. Whenever you have polls like this, recent skaters tend to overperform. In 30 years, will V&M and D&W be ranked as high in this kind of poll, I wonder?

    Also, no doubt there were artistically great dance teams who didn't develop enough technical proficiency to win medals at Worlds. So, it might be nice to have a separate category for those teams as well.

  19. #179
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    I think V&M will stand the test of time well. D&W less so.

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I think V&M will stand the test of time well. D&W less so.
    Possibly. It's hard to say, though. Besides, what about the 5 different British dance teams who won world championships in the 1950s and '60s? Why is nobody mentioning them? Surely one of those teams should be getting votes here as well. The thing is, who among us really knows a thing about them? There was a prominent Czech team back then too.

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