View Poll Results: Best ice dance team ever

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  • Torvill & Dean

    116 27.36%
  • Klimova & Ponomarenko

    74 17.45%
  • Gritschuk & Platov

    28 6.60%
  • Usova & Zhulin

    4 0.94%
  • Krylova & Ovsiannikov

    6 1.42%
  • Bestiamanova & Bukin

    4 0.94%
  • Pahkomova & Gorshkov

    3 0.71%
  • Bourne & Kraatz

    2 0.47%
  • Anissina & Peizerat

    10 2.36%
  • Virtue & Moir

    120 28.30%
  • Davis & White

    56 13.21%
  • other

    1 0.24%
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  1. #61
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    If all skated in their primes vs each other the results would be:

    1. Virtue & Moir- too much difficulty and beauty for others to match.
    2. Torvill & Dean
    3. Gritschuk & Platov
    4. Klimova & Ponomarenko- I love them but they always lost head to head to Torvill & Dean and even had trouble beating weak Douchesays team.
    5. Anissina & Peizerat- I want to put them higher but technical abilities are weaker than those other 4.

    I still pick Klimova & Sergei since I just enjoy watching them most of all.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanoverrated View Post
    If all skated in their primes vs each other the results would be:

    1. Virtue & Moir- too much difficulty and beauty for others to match.
    2. Torvill & Dean
    3. Gritschuk & Platov
    4. Klimova & Ponomarenko- I love them but they always lost head to head to Torvill & Dean and even had trouble beating weak Douchesays team.
    5. Anissina & Peizerat- I want to put them higher but technical abilities are weaker than those other 4.

    I still pick Klimova & Sergei since I just enjoy watching them most of all.
    Klimova & Ponomarenko were much younger and just coming up when they were going head to head with Torvill and Dean so you can't really go by that.

  3. #63

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    Pure Jealousy .. G/P have 2 gold medals .. But fans being
    Fans of other skaters .. Never give them the recognition they deserve.
    Plus they were so great.. No one even today can come close.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanoverrated View Post
    If all skated in their primes vs each other the results would be:

    1. Virtue & Moir- too much difficulty and beauty for others to match.
    2. Torvill & Dean
    3. Gritschuk & Platov
    4. Klimova & Ponomarenko- I love them but they always lost head to head to Torvill & Dean and even had trouble beating weak Douchesays team.5. Anissina & Peizerat- I want to put them higher but technical abilities are weaker than those other 4.

    I still pick Klimova & Sergei since I just enjoy watching them most of all.
    K&P were way down the ladder in terms of seniority when T&D were on top. Next in line were B&B. No way inexperienced K&P would have beaten T&D while the latter were on top. Things like that did not happen in ice dance those days, even if K&P had been at T&D's level (they were not, in 1984 and earlier).

    K&P lost to Duschenays just once, and that was when they were distracted by Marina failing the drug test after the 91 Euros. The second lab test came out clean, so they were allowed to compete at the 92 worlds. However, it cost them 2 weeks of practice time, and the conflict with their coach (Dubova) was a big distraction when the 92 worlds came around. Your statement comes across as they were so weak that they could not even beat the Duschenays multiple times.

  5. #65

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    And their losses were more political. I'm sure if COP was implemented at the time K/P were developing (after B/B developed), we could have seen K/P shoot up the rankings much faster the way V/M and D/W did in the 2007-2010 quad considering the under-appreciated difficulty K/P were putting forth. Combine that with Soviet-style ice dance training and musicality, I think K/P would have done quite well. Of course, other teams would have developed differently too, so we don't know if K/P could have been overtaken by a younger team.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  6. #66
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    K&P "always lost head to head" with T&D? From a review of wiki, they only ever skated head to head in the 1983-84 season, at Europeans, Worlds, and Olympics, and I hardly think a brand new team could be expected to beat Bolero. IMO Air stands up very well against Bolero, but who knows how the judges would've ranked them.

    I don't think it's a CoP thing because you can't shoot up much faster than winning Olympic bronze in your second year of ISU championships before you've even been to Worlds. K&P's issue wasn't that they didn't move up, it was that they were stuck behind one particular couple, B&B. That may have been a correct result or it may have been political, but CoP can be just as political. Then they were beaten by D&D once, at 1991 Worlds, not multiple times.

    It's hard to say how well K&P would've done under CoP because skills like posture, musicality, and dance ability are not always reflected in the PCS mark as they should be. The question would really come down to how K&P do at the types of elements measured by the CoP. I'd like to think they would do them really well because they're great skaters, but I guess we'll never know for sure. It can be argued that acrobatic lifts, dance spins, and even twizzles don't have a lot to do with actual edgework.

  7. #67

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    It also depends on the code as well in terms of what elements would be scored highly and what role GOE plays. Although I do not believe COP has alleviated the political aspect of ice dance judging, I do think that it really opened doors for Virtue/Moir and Davis/White that was unprecedented in the discipline. I mean I know we've see meteoric rises before (K/P in 1984, but then they fell victim being the second ranked Soviet team and G/P in 1994...but the return of Torvil and Dean possibly played a part in that), but I do think COP has allowed much more mobility (up and down) that we haven't seen in ice dance previously.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  8. #68
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    I do think it's true that CoP has allowed more mobility because you can really take a hit for an off day. Under CoP, K&P might have been able to beat B&B a couple of times in the 85-88 quad, and also may have been beaten by U&Z here and there in 89-92.

  9. #69

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    COP opened the doors for DW and VM and then right they went through all the judges closed the doors to anyone but them! No team in any GP event or the worlds or Olympics can even hope to beat VM or DW no matter what they do! No matter what elements get the levels! The judges have shut the doors!! D/W can have lifeless boring tango that gets 10's in PCS! V/M can do a program once and extremely sloppy and ridiculously and get 10's in PCS! It's totally the same! North American teams got in the door became the number ones and all the doors were closed!

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fancypancy View Post
    Pure Jealousy .. G/P have 2 gold medals .. But fans being
    Fans of other skaters .. Never give them the recognition they deserve.
    Plus they were so great.. No one even today can come close.
    Their problem is they never had a truly signature program though. That is needed to be considered for the best ever. No doubt they were excellent, technically very strong, probably the fastest team ever, and deserved most or all their titles (no matter how hard bitter cow Tracy Wilson tries to convince others otherwise). They still dont have the signature program(s) or the way they took ice dance in a new direction and left a huge mark other than just being the best team in the World for 5 years that would make many think of best ever labels for them though.

  11. #71
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    IMO Libertango and The Feeling Begins were signature programs for G&P. N&K and G&G were both accused of copying them when they used TFB.

    And I would argue that G&P's speed and mad twizzling in 1994 set the stage for modern ice dance. They made it a lot more athletic. Sadly, many of the later teams who have been known for speed did not have the basic technique that G&P did, so this style is often derided as "it's not just speed skating." But in G&P's case, it wasn't. It was technically brilliant, truly danced, great bladework skating.

    I have also said this before but I do feel that in lieu of a signature style, G&P had a lot more versatility than many great teams including the beloved K&P. They have done very North American/British style ballroom programs in addition to heavy dramatic Russian style stuff.
    ETA: In fact I just noticed I said it before on this very thread, but that post is over a month old and I forgot about it.

  12. #72

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    Cherub 721 agree totally!!!))

  13. #73
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXNmarKjyiY - Not their signature but I can watch that program again and again and again.

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    IMO Libertango and The Feeling Begins were signature programs for G&P. N&K and G&G were both accused of copying them when they used TFB.

    And I would argue that G&P's speed and mad twizzling in 1994 set the stage for modern ice dance. They made it a lot more athletic. Sadly, many of the later teams who have been known for speed did not have the basic technique that G&P did, so this style is often derided as "it's not just speed skating." But in G&P's case, it wasn't. It was technically brilliant, truly danced, great bladework skating.

    I have also said this before but I do feel that in lieu of a signature style, G&P had a lot more versatility than many great teams including the beloved K&P. They have done very North American/British style ballroom programs in addition to heavy dramatic Russian style stuff.
    ETA: In fact I just noticed I said it before on this very thread, but that post is over a month old and I forgot about it.
    I still think K/P were capable of versatile rhythms and styles...at least they were capable of doing it better. However, I do think G/P were very versatile even if I don't think really think any of their programs were really masterpieces outside Libertango. Even if some of them were close, and I have personally enjoyed quite a few of them, I just don't know if any of their dances are signatures...but then this really depends on consensus and I really have no idea of what the consensus is. Plus, it's hard to know from my perspective since the North American media was heavily and unfairly critical of G/P.
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  15. #75
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    I voted for Klimova and Ponomarenko because to me they had it all - superior technical skills, precision, breathtaking classical lines, creativity, and above all, passion.
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  16. #76

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    Gingercrush .. When you have success like G/P.
    their programs were all amazing .. Again,
    great success comes with the most Critics...but I also love that
    Program... Signature 4 sure!!!

  17. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Their problem is they never had a truly signature program though. That is needed to be considered for the best ever. No doubt they were excellent, technically very strong, probably the fastest team ever, and deserved most or all their titles (no matter how hard bitter cow Tracy Wilson tries to convince others otherwise). They still dont have the signature program(s) or the way they took ice dance in a new direction and left a huge mark other than just being the best team in the World for 5 years that would make many think of best ever labels for them though.
    I disagree. 'Memorial', 'The feeling begins' and their 94 FD (for its creativity) were signature programs for them. If Tracy Wilson had not been so bitter while commentating in 98 (Oly), I think a lot of people would have come forward to say how great that program was. TFB at Euros (97) may still be their best performance but the music is overused, so TEB FD does not get the credit it deserves.

  18. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by BittyBug View Post
    I voted for Klimova and Ponomarenko because to me they had it all - superior technical skills, precision, breathtaking classical lines, creativity, and above all, passion.
    They had everything an ice dance team should have.

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    but I do think COP has allowed much more mobility (up and down) that we haven't seen in ice dance previously.
    That is true of #3 and down. The top 2 placements are locked. No matter what anyone does, those are reserved for V&M and D&W. I do like them but there is no mobility when it comes to the very top (1-2).

  20. #80
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    Amazing to see Pasha & Platov with fewer votes than Davis & White. They are really underrated on this poll. What a shame.

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