View Poll Results: Who should have been given bronze by judges for their skates in Nagano
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Bronze medal at the 98 Olympics- Slutskaya, Chen, or Butyrskaya
Who deserved the bronze at the 98 Olympics.
Chen won it but it was very controversial at the time. Although Chen skated about 95% of her best at that time, and Butyrskaya and Slutskaya both only about 75% I would say both deserved the bronze more than her. Chen was a poor technical skater way past her prime, even though she made less technical mistakes than Butyrskaya and Slutskaya, and skated by far her best technical in years, but still weak comparatively even so. Her artistry was also overated by then. I would give it to Butyrskaya since her artistry is so much better than Slutskaya. My marks would be:
Lipinski- 5.9 technical, 5.8 artistic presentation
Kwan- 5.8 technical, 5.8 artistic presentation
Butyrskaya- 5.6 technical, 5.9 artistic presentation
Slutskaya- 5.8 technical, 5.5 artistic presentation
Chen- 5.2 technical, 5.6 artistic presentation
I don't remember it was not controversial at the time. The commentators were happy for her (at least in my country).
Anyway, I would have given it to Lu Chen too. She attempted a much more complex program, even if her jumps were barely landed. And her artistry was beautiful.
But I wouldn't have been disappointed with a bronze for Maria Butyrskaya.
They all did not skate well enough to be ranked significantly different technically, so asking which is better is like asking, "Which do you prefer, pie, cake, or a Little Debbie's snack?"
Slutskaya in the free skate was much better than the other two technically IMO, but by far the worst artistically, which still made it close between the three.
Originally Posted by bardtoob
Chen did have the perceived 3/3, and that perception was good enough for an OGM at the next Olympics, so a bronze here seems fitting.
LOL that is true. Plus a perceived 2nd triple lutz. Jumps atleast as rotated as most of Hughes's jumps in 2002, minus the flutz and mule kick from the rodeo to boot.
Originally Posted by bardtoob
Originally Posted by bardtoob
I would rank them :
technically : 1-Slutskaya, 2-Butyrskaya, 3-Lu Chen
artistically : 1-Lu Chen, 2-Butyrskaya, 3-Slutskaya
But the advantage for Lu Chen of attempting big tricks (more than Butyrskaya, at least).
I agree it could have gone either way between Bute and Chen. Slutskaya had the strongest jumps, but the rest of her skating was awful at that point. I think what the judges were swayed was Chens ability to still hit (relatively speaking the URS weren't a big deal back then) and her artistry. Bute was once again wonderful in the SP but felt more tentative in her LP program both technically and artisitically. No way does Maria deserve higher presentation marks that night than Kwan and Chen though.
Maria had a chance but she made too many mistakes in the LP. Wasn't Irina too far back to make up ground?
Chen Lu won the bronze by default, IMO. Also it helped that she was coming back from a disastrous year, and was very emotional throughout.
Lipinski - 5.9, 5.8
Originally Posted by butyrskafanatic
Kwan - 5.7, 5.9
Chen - 5.5, 5.9
Butyrskaya - 5.4, 5.8
I saw nothing controversial about the bronze medal outcome, nor remember it as being controversial. I thought Butterfly Lovers was yet another artistically beautiful program by Chen Lu, and that she was technically stronger than Maria.
Was it controversial in Russia or something? Because in the US it wasn't one bit controversial at all.
Originally Posted by berthesghost
It wasn't controversial anywhere. Look at Butyrskaya's reaction after her skate...she knew she gave it away by chickening out on her last two jumping passes. It's only "controversial" when looking back at the event though a 2013 IJS lens.
I am Butyrskaya's biggest fan, but she's lucky Slutskaya had the most god-awful LP that year (her SP was actually very good, though).
I don't know in what world Maria Butyrskaya's 1998 Nagano LP deserved a higher presentation mark than Kwan and Chen's LP, even though I do think a solid argument can be made to place Irina and Maria higher than Chen overall (though it's not a robbery by any means). It's not as if she skated her LP in the same way she had at 1999 Worlds.
The fact that Chen even tried that 3/3 at the end was out of this world. Of course I don't think the judges gave her credit for that second triple (it was 2footed and short on rotations). Here was a skater who was out of the picture for a whole season, and barely won a medal at NHK earlier that year, and she had a full arsenal of jumps.
I agree its hard to look at this event through an IJS lens (to a certain extent even 2002 ladies SP at the Olympics but that was controversial under any scoring system) butt the judges were not scoring down Chens jumps in the LP except that second triple toe at the end of her combination.
Chen had by far the best program and performance of the three even though most of her jumps were flawed. She did attempt and stand up on 7 triples (OK 6 if you don't count the 2nd 3toe). Bute was stiff and didn't even do a true jump combo, and only 5 triples many of which were 2foot suspects. Slute had the most speed and content but was worst in presentation among the three. She also had the least footwork of the three.
I think most judges had it right that it should have gone:
[moot] And I know it shouldn't work this way, but Slute only did a 2/2 in the short but made top 5 only because other better skaters made mistakes too (Bobek, Gusmeroli, Hubert) so there is no way I would give her the bronze even if I felt she deserved 3rd in the free. Bute had the better short but it wasn't so good that she deserved the overall bronze over Chen given how stiff she was in the free.
[aside] 15 years later, I think the bronze medal decision is correct, but I wish Bute had had an Olympic bronze to show for her career. Between 1996 to 2002, she was consistently a top 4 kind of skater. She wasn't at all dominated by Slute during 2000 to 2002, occasionally beating her at Euros and outskating her at that infamous NHK. Ultimately I don't think Slute was that much better a skater or competitior to warrant 2 Olympic medals to Bute's none. Perhaps if the Olympics had done 1996, 2000 and 2004, she would have a chance in 2000.
I also don't read a lot of controversy into it just how totally close it was! It was almost a three way tie! That meant things were written about how any of the three could have won the bronze. It was not controversial that Chen did that I read but I am not in Russia or Europe or whatever. But even outside of Russia and Europe or whatever it was a lot about how close it was! It was really close. That lead to explanations about how the slutskaya got threes and butyrskaya got threes and how CHen just edged them out.
Last edited by caseyedwards; 07-15-2013 at 11:43 PM.
I too don't remeber any controversy. Chen even with her mistakes was better than the other two.
Yeah, it's amazing to think that Chen got mostly 4th place votes whole Butryskaya had 4 3rd place votes. If I remember correctly, if one more judge had placed Bute ahead of Chen to give Bute at least one more 4th place vote, she could have gotten the bronze.
Chen should have received straight 3rd place ordinals even with the questionable jumps. It was clear most of the judges would have given it to Maria so she really did herself in that night. Irina's program was awful including the horrid dress.
On an emotional level, it was nice to see Chen finish her career with another Olympic medal after all she went through.