View Poll Results: Best skater of Kwan and Slutskaya era

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  • Slutskaya

    103 40.71%
  • Kwan

    142 56.13%
  • neither, someone else

    8 3.16%
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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by butyrskafanatic View Post
    You are right on Nicole. Sadly the judges saw Maria even in her prime as a third tier skater who could only win a bronze medal if she skated lights out and everyone else had a disaester (and even then sometimes not).
    i don't think rewriting history ever does anyone any good. Neither Kwan nor irina had "disasters" when bobeck and Maria easily beat them in the 95 and 00 SPs respectively by simply out skating them and being rewarded by judges very willing to place them 1st. Is Maria the 1999 world bronze medalist? No, I didn't think so.
    Last edited by berthesghost; 07-22-2013 at 07:44 PM. Reason: Oops... Mistook 2000 worlds for 2001. Maria won the SP in Nice.

  2. #82

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    How is it that one poll says that Michelle had no competition in her era and another says that nearly half of the voters think Irina is a better skater than Michelle?

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by giselle23 View Post
    How is it that one poll says that Michelle had no competition in her era and another says that nearly half of the voters think Irina is a better skater than Michelle?
    Haters gotta hate.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by mustafinabars View Post
    Irina also had a slightly greater career overall.
    Guh? Please explain...

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    Guh? Please explain...
    There are people who actually think the GPF means something other than $peedy's pet cheese fest.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    i don't think rewriting history ever does anyone any good. Neither Kwan nor irina had "disasters" when bobeck and Maria easily beat them in the 95 and 01 SPs respectively by simply out skating them and being rewarded by judges very willing to place them 1st. Is Maria the 1999 world bronze medalist? No, I didn't think so.
    Maria did not beat Michelle in 2001 SP. Maria skated a beautiful short program on par with her excellent winning 2000 Worlds SP and was inexplicably dumped to a lowly 5th place behind Slutskaya, Kwan, Nikidinov, and Hughes.

    Kwan was not in her prime in 1995, but I conceded the OP was right on Nicole anyway. Nicole was her own worst enemy with her poor training tactics, laziness, changing coaches. She didnt even choke under pressure so much as show up unprepared most of the time. The judges were Marias worst enemy.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    There are people who actually think the GPF means something other than $peedy's pet cheese fest.
    Still waiting on an explanation...

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    There are people who actually think the GPF means something other than $peedy's pet cheese fest.
    On paper, Slutskaya edges Kwan in GPFs by 4-1, but when we take into account that Kwan was robbed of the 01-02 GPF title, the record should actually be 3-2. Slutskaya's win at the GPF that year was outrageous, maybe even more so than when she beat Butyrskaya at 2000 NHK. Only four triples, sloppy presentation, and an incoherent program to Tosca. With this taken into account, Slutskaya's edge in GPFs is not that big.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post
    On paper, Slutskaya edges Kwan in GPFs by 4-1, but when we take into account that Kwan was robbed of the 01-02 GPF title, the record should actually be 3-2. Slutskaya's win at the GPF that year was outrageous, maybe even more so than when she beat Butyrskaya at 2000 NHK. Only four triples, sloppy presentation, and an incoherent program to Tosca. With this taken into account, Slutskaya's edge in GPFs is not that big.
    Not to mention Kwan tends to peak at Worlds anyway. Kwan beat Slute hands down on their head-to-head matches at Worlds even if disregarding 2004 Worlds in which Slute was not in peak form (but if we do that we should probably also disregard 2005 Worlds during which Kwan was severely injured).

  10. #90
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    They're neck and neck in terms of overall package. My edge goes to Michelle simply because she was more beautiful to watch. Athleticism is important but at the end of the day Michelle has far too many masterpiece programs (exhibition and competition) in comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by usova94gold View Post
    Although there are skaters even in very recent times who combine technical and artistic better than both- Yamaguchi, Asada, Kim, Kostner on a good day, possibly Ito.
    I find Yamaguchi to be really overrated artistically until her pro career. Comparing her Olympics Malaguena to Cohen's, it's like night and day in terms of utilization of music and artistry.

    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    ^Agreed. I don't know why some would even attempt to dispute the fact that Slutskaya was the better jumper. Kwan did many things better. Is it that hard to recognize that others did SOME things better than her? I also noticed that past 2000, Kwan's jumps really got worse in height and spring.
    Her lutz was better than ever in 2005, and her jumps had more height. Her flip had a beautiful exiting edge during that period

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzGVwsSoNz8#t=4m2s

  11. #91
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    I voted for Kwan. However it wasnt an easy choice. I thought Kwan was the better skater in 96, 97, 98, 99, 2003. I thought Irina was in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2005, 2006. So each had 5 seasons they were better than the other. I know Kwan won the 2000 and 2001 Worlds but that just means she was the best competitor at Worlds and had to skate lights out and have Irina make mistakes to win both times. Overall Slutskaya was best skater of boths seasons, but just didnt compete the best in the final long program of Worlds both times. Had Worlds been held 10 times both seasons, Irina would have won atleast 7 of the 10 both times. The period both were in their primes Slutskaya was the better skater most of her time, but Kwan had many more years of being successful before Irina even became more than a bronze contender.

  12. #92
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    Considering how Slute had only beaten Kwan once before Worlds in 2000 and twice in 2001, who knows. Kwan trained to peak at a certain time during those seasons.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post
    On paper, Slutskaya edges Kwan in GPFs by 4-1, but when we take into account that Kwan was robbed of the 01-02 GPF title, the record should actually be 3-2. Slutskaya's win at the GPF that year was outrageous, maybe even more so than when she beat Butyrskaya at 2000 NHK. Only four triples, sloppy presentation, and an incoherent program to Tosca. With this taken into account, Slutskaya's edge in GPFs is not that big.
    Agreed. Kwan was robbed in that GPF.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by iarispiralllyof View Post
    Her lutz was better than ever in 2005, and her jumps had more height. Her flip had a beautiful exiting edge during that period

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzGVwsSoNz8#t=4m2s

    Hmm...the flip was 1/4 underrotated.
    The lutz also wasn't very high. I remember her jumps being better and more powerful in 2003.

    ETA: In general, Kwan's skating and jumps looked rather "heavy" to me in 2005. Also, because of the new judging system, her precision suffered. She even wobbled on the spiral sequence which you normally would never see from her.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post
    On paper, Slutskaya edges Kwan in GPFs by 4-1, but when we take into account that Kwan was robbed of the 01-02 GPF title, the record should actually be 3-2. Slutskaya's win at the GPF that year was outrageous, maybe even more so than when she beat Butyrskaya at 2000 NHK. Only four triples, sloppy presentation, and an incoherent program to Tosca. With this taken into account, Slutskaya's edge in GPFs is not that big.
    That is meaningless. The record books will always record Slutskaya as winning the 01-02 GPF title and years from now hardly anyone will remember the performances. One could argue Hughes winning the final LP, Kwan second, and Slutskaya third, which would yield the same result anyway. One could also argue Slutskaya winning the 95-96 GPF over Kwan where she had 2 clean performances and lost to Kwan who fell on a simple triple toe in the short, and missed her second triple lutz in the long too.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by staceyliving View Post
    That is meaningless.

    Yeah, if we argued like that, then one could claim that Slutskaya is a greater skater than Kwan since no way Hughes should have beaten Slutskaya in SLC with her weak SP....

  17. #97
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    I voted for other. I think Sasha Cohen was the best skater of the decade. The question was skater, not competitor. Best competitor of the Kwan era would be between Kwan and Slutskaya. Best career of the Slutskaya era would also be between Slutskaya and Kwan. Best skater though might be one of them but it also could be someone else. Sasha had best spins, best spirals, best elegance, best lines, best choreography. Irina had best jumps and best footwork and best speed and best spins along with Sasha. Kwan had best basic skating and edge quality. Sasha was best at more things than the other two.

    She doesnt have the medals and titles since she wasnt as good a competitor but as a skater she is the best of that era. Chen maybe 2nd best, bobek 3rd, then Kwan and Slutskaya. The greatest champions of that era are Kwan and Slutskaya, but that is largely their mental strength, not that their skating overwhelms all others.

  18. #98

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    I preferred Irina a bit, to be honest. While I agree that Kwan had the edge in terms of polish and musicality, Irina wasn't without artistry and when her programs suited her skating style and personality, she really brought them to life. Her 2005 FS in Moscow is one of my all-time favs.

    However, I think Michelle is the best of the era, because of her consistency and the fact that she earned five world titles - and I think nine national titles?

    Kwan is a legend in the sport, at least in North America. Can the same be said about Irina in Russia?

  19. #99
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    No other Russian lady achieved more than Slutskaya, AFAIK. So she could very well be considered a legend in her home country.

  20. #100
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    I am sure in the figure skating community Irina is an enormous legend in Russia, and even in all of Europe. Now whether she is one that transcends other sports and to the general non figure skating public even in Russia like Kwan in the U.S is another matter, and I wouldnt have any idea the answer to that.

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