View Poll Results: (corrected) who is the best male pro skater?- Pick 3

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  • Brian Boitano

    37 20.56%
  • Scott Hamilton

    23 12.78%
  • Paul Wylie

    13 7.22%
  • Brian Orser

    8 4.44%
  • Kurt Browning

    122 67.78%
  • Viktor Petrenko

    16 8.89%
  • Ilia Kulik

    25 13.89%
  • Alexei Yagudin

    27 15.00%
  • Jeff Buttle

    26 14.44%
  • Stephane Lambiel

    42 23.33%
  • Toller Cranston

    10 5.56%
  • Other (Specify)

    15 8.33%
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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by VarBar View Post
    Maybe reut felt that comment had something to do with your posts though because you praised Cousins earlier for his manly interpretation of a program - as one of his great qualities I suppose - but then shared here another program of his where he hardly epitomizes masculinity in figure skating.
    Oh, in that post, I mean, another person's comment has nothing to do with my posts. That's his/her opinion, I never said anyone was feminine. I praised Cousins for his manly interpretation, does it automatically mean other skaters on the list are feminine? Curious, my posts really look like that?

  2. #102
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    Woohoo how this thread turned into a Lambiel dispute thread

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    I had no time to watch, I just respond .
    I understand that you had no time to watch, but I described what characters/images he is portraying in those programs - those are not "bad guys", but they are definitely more than just "nice guys".

    For me he is too busy on ice, he did too much movements, annoys me,and he lacks of strength. Stef is a bit overact that he is very artistic, he is too much for me. This is matter of taste.
    You mean he has too much choreography ? Anyway, "too much movements" is funny coming from someone who's favorite skater in many people's opinion moves his arms way too much, and also does footwork that often looks too busy and frantic . I didn't write that to put him down - I too think that sometimes he overdoes with those things, but I still like and respect him, and also think that those arm movements and footwork is a part of his style. I was just surprised with your comment about "too much movements". As for strength - I can't agree. Stephane has a more fragile body type (the top half at least ), but in his programs he often does things that are physically difficult and tiring.

    Yes, part if what you said is a matter of taste, but not everything - not about "strength" and "fragile", not about "not diverse", and not really about "nice guy". That is my opinion.

    Alexander Godunov wasn't feminine, and I also don't think that Tsiskaridze was too feminine on stage.
    That comment was not about you. I just know that there are a lot of people who think that both figure skating and ballet are feminine as a whole - they are ignoring the athletic part of it.
    Last edited by lauravvv; 07-30-2013 at 10:13 PM.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by lily View Post
    Woohoo how this thread turned into a Lambiel dispute thread
    Originally that was not my intention. I just wrote a comment about Yagudin's skating in some particular shows, and it all started from there . Unfortunately, I am just one of those people who can't keep silent when other people misunderstand me, or when they say things about my favorites that I don't agree with.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    Originally that was not my intention. I just wrote a comment about Yagudin's skating in some particular shows, and it all started from there . Unfortunately, I am just one of those people who can't keep silent when other people misunderstand me, or when they say things about my favorites that I don't agree with.
    I actually read your posts with interest and like that you analyze and argue your statements and don't give only such arguments as "I just like/don't like", "it seems me", "I respond without watching" or .

  6. #106
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    Have to go with the crowd on this one...Kurt Browning

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    You mean he has too much choreography ? Anyway, "too much movements" is funny coming from someone who's favorite skater in many people's opinion moves his arms way too much, and also does footwork that often looks too busy and frantic . I didn't write that to put him down - I too think that sometimes he overdoes with those things, but I still like and respect him, and also think that those arm movements and footwork is a part of his style. I was just surprised with your comment about "too much movements". As for strength - I can't agree. Stephane has a more fragile body type (the top half at least ), but in his programs he often does things that are physically difficult and tiring.

    Yes, part if what you said is a matter of taste, but not everything - not about "strength" and "fragile", not about "not diverse", and not really about "nice guy". That is my opinion.
    This is my opinion. You have also opinion on my favorite. You must to accept mine. Lambiel isn't the best skater, only is your favorite. You are biased like me. He has some good qualities. And if you are a real fan of Stef, you know they are very good friends and they respect ech other.
    And yes, my favorite is a real man on ice, he has masculine power, like Joubert's.
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=1&theater
    Last edited by lala; 07-31-2013 at 09:30 AM.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    This is my opinion. You have also opinion on my favorite. You must to accept mine. Lambiel isn't the best skater, only is your favorite. You are biased like me. He has some good qualities. And if you are a real fan of Stef, you know they are very good friends and they respect ech other.
    And yes, my favorite is a real man on ice, he has masculine power, like Joubert's.
    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=1&theater
    I know that you have your opinion, and I have mine. But I don't have to accept your opinion if I don't agree with it, especially if your "opinion" is based on very superficial things. I am biased too, of course, but that's not how I form my opinions. Or I at least try not to.

    Actually I wouldn't even call your opinion an "opinion" - it's more just your taste. You like more "masculine" skaters than Lambiel, and that is fine. But you could have just said so from the start - there was no need to write that he is not diverse, and that all his programs are "similar" just because he is not in your taste, and because you haven't paid attention to the many things that are different in his programs. But okay, I think we can simply agree to disagree.

    I wrote what many other people think about your favorite skater - that was not my opinion. Although I partially agree, unlike those other people I also see other things in his skating that I like. And I know very well that Lambiel and Plushenko respect each other - I respect Plushenko too.

  9. #109
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    Fanny Cradock

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    I know that you have your opinion, and I have mine. But I don't have to accept your opinion if I don't agree with it, especially if your "opinion" is based on very superficial things. I am biased too, of course, but that's not how I form my opinions. Or I at least try not to.

    Actually I wouldn't even call your opinion an "opinion" - it's more just your taste. You like more "masculine" skaters than Lambiel, and that is fine. But you could have just said so from the start - there was no need to write that he is not diverse, and that all his programs are "similar" just because he is not in your taste, and because you haven't paid attention to the many things that are different in his programs. But okay, I think we can simply agree to disagree.

    I wrote what many other people think about your favorite skater - that was not my opinion. Although I partially agree, unlike those other people I also see other things in his skating that I like. And I know very well that Lambiel and Plushenko respect each other - I respect Plushenko too.
    I respect Lambiel too!!!! He is among my top ten favorite skaters. But for me this is the diversity http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqUBlz5a89s , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vURTGSsm4oo , www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-7c-9GqE3Q and so on...

  11. #111

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    Last edited by falling_dance; 07-31-2013 at 03:30 PM.
    I can call the moon a pear, but it doesn't make it so. -- kwanfan1818

  12. #112
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    It really has to do with personal preference for a style because I don't see Plushenko's range of programs being more diverse than Lambiel's.

    I honestly thought this thread was about who's the best PRO skater in terms of variety/complexity/quality of programs (skating & movement) rather than this style versus that style.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    I respect Lambiel too!!!! He is among my top ten favorite skaters. But for me this is the diversity http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqUBlz5a89s , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vURTGSsm4oo , www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-7c-9GqE3Q and so on...
    I understand you. Plushenko does dramatic programs, lyrical/romantic programs AND comical programs. Stephane doesn't really do comical programs - he does light and fun programs instead. He has one funny program ('Rigoletto') and funny parts in some other programs ('A Chorus Line', and 'William Tell' which is not a show program), but his approach to comical is - how to say it - not so direct, more sophisticated. I won't be surprised if Stephane will make more funny programs in future, but I also suspect that he will never dress in baby clothes/female dress or in acid colours for a program .

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    I understand you. Plushenko does dramatic programs, lyrical/romantic programs AND comical programs. Stephane doesn't really do comical programs - he does light and fun programs instead. He has one funny program ('Rigoletto') and funny parts in some other programs ('A Chorus Line', and 'William Tell' which is not a show program), but his approach to comical is - how to say it - not so direct, more sophisticated. I won't be surprised if Stephane will make more funny programs in future, but I also suspect that he will never dress in baby clothes/female dress or in acid colours for a program .
    If you're talking about the Asissai program, then all you say that is one of the fanniest,the most surprising, original, thus the best EX program ever in figure skating history. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzZCc5nQ8-E

    Quote Originally Posted by VarBar View Post
    It really has to do with personal preference for a style because I don't see Plushenko's range of programs being more diverse than Lambiel's.

    I honestly thought this thread was about who's the best PRO skater in terms of variety/complexity/quality of programs (skating & movement) rather than this style versus that style.
    You are right, but probably if we are not arguing with Lauravvv, then this thread would have gone down. Otherwise I voted for Kurt. His pro skating without a doubt is the best. Many skaters have good programs, but Kurt has many unforgettable and brilliant programs.
    Last edited by lala; 08-01-2013 at 08:30 AM.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by VarBar View Post
    It really has to do with personal preference for a style because I don't see Plushenko's range of programs being more diverse than Lambiel's.

    I honestly thought this thread was about who's the best PRO skater in terms of variety/complexity/quality of programs (skating & movement) rather than this style versus that style.
    I don't think Patrick Chan is simply working with Kathy Johnson for skating &movements. Body carriage is always a part of figure skating, someone call it style. Actually, I do feel Plushenko and Lambiel have certain similarities, they both have that flamboyant stuff.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    I don't think Patrick Chan is simply working with Kathy Johnson for skating &movements. Body carriage is always a part of figure skating, someone call it style. Actually, I do feel Plushenko and Lambiel have certain similarities, they both have that flamboyant stuff.
    hi Unicorn!

  17. #117
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    Last edited by lala; 08-01-2013 at 10:57 PM.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    I don't think Patrick Chan is simply working with Kathy Johnson for skating &movements. Body carriage is always a part of figure skating, someone call it style. Actually, I do feel Plushenko and Lambiel have certain similarities, they both have that flamboyant stuff.
    Oh yes, you're right, unicorn, that the carriage is often deemed to be part of a person's style. But I was rather thinking along the lines of a more masculine look versus a more graceful/feminine one or an extroverted performer such as Browning or Petrenko or Yagudin versus an introverted one such as Robin Cousins. I always felt that Cousins skated in his own world.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    If you're talking about the Asissai program, then all you say that is one of the fanniest,the most surprising, original, thus the best EX program ever in figure skating history. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzZCc5nQ8-E
    Yes, that one . But I didn't mean anything bad. I do think that generally it's an easy trick and an easy way to be funny if a male artist dresses in female clothes, but because of that it's even more difficult to make it truly funny and special, and Plushenko (and his choreographer) managed to do that. Good acting, and I am glad that he didn't just skate his program in ordinary female clothes from start to finish, but made it more interesting - and this is a really inventive costume. I have nothing against that sort of funny programs - in fact, I even like them. I just think that there are also different ways to be funny that don't involve funny costumes/clothes.

    I also agree that it is probably one of the (many) best exhibition programs, but I don't think it's the best ever - especially because it's too difficult to compare it to more serious exhibition programs.

    By the way, if Plushenko gets to skate in the Sochi gala show (which is very possible even if he is not in top five), it would be really great if he would skate that kind of funny program - especially if the show will be a parade of serious and lyrical/romantic programs which is very probable too. That would be fun indeed !


    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    I don't think Patrick Chan is simply working with Kathy Johnson for skating &movements. Body carriage is always a part of figure skating, someone call it style. Actually, I do feel Plushenko and Lambiel have certain similarities, they both have that flamboyant stuff.
    Yes, although some people call it style, it is a part of figure skating that is even included in marks (or it should be, according to the PCS rules).

    I must agree that both Plushenko and Lambiel have their flamboyance indeed - only Lambiel's flamboyance is still more sophisticated and, often, more toned down than Plushenko's.
    Last edited by lauravvv; 08-01-2013 at 10:24 PM.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by reut View Post
    With the attitude you have towards skater X (sorry, I didn't really follow all the "fan fights" here, but just to be sure, we're talking about Yagudin, right?) I don't think this will persuade you, but here are two his pro-programs I really liked:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6yGy3G_3YY - Flamenco (created around second half of 2007, I think)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8d0U20sb08 - Blues for klook (created also around 2006-2007 if I'm not mistaken)

    In general I don't understand the need of some fans to bash other skaters to make "their" skater look better (I'm not talking only about the discussion here). Believe me, if "your" skater is indeed good, he is absolutely good, not relatively, no need to prove that others are bad.
    Thanks for posting those. I really liked Yags when he was competing and was happy that he won in 2002. Totally loved his 2001 SP. But I've come to expect more from pro/show skating and want to see a higher level of originality, style, musicality, sophisticated/well constructed/clever choreography. He had eligible programs that played to his strength (power and passion), but I do think he has always been rather one-dimensional and used the same formula in terms of program choices. That's fine with eligible skating but not so much with pro skating. I don't see him nearly as versatile (especially when compared to quite a few on the list) to be a good pro skater. The programs above IMO are like many of the gala programs that we see from competitive skaters: kind of thrown together with rehashed moves. You also don't see him moving differently from the flamenco to the blues. The thing is I think he's first and foremost an athlete and doesn't take show skating that seriously anyway nor does he see show skating as an art form, which is totally fine. Many great champions retired without ever pursuing a pro career. Not meant to bash, my point is really just that one of the best pro skaters he's not.
    Last edited by shine; 08-03-2013 at 07:26 AM.

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