View Poll Results: (corrected) who is the best male pro skater?- Pick 3

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  • Brian Boitano

    37 20.56%
  • Scott Hamilton

    23 12.78%
  • Paul Wylie

    13 7.22%
  • Brian Orser

    8 4.44%
  • Kurt Browning

    122 67.78%
  • Viktor Petrenko

    16 8.89%
  • Ilia Kulik

    25 13.89%
  • Alexei Yagudin

    27 15.00%
  • Jeff Buttle

    26 14.44%
  • Stephane Lambiel

    42 23.33%
  • Toller Cranston

    10 5.56%
  • Other (Specify)

    15 8.33%
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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    Interpret it whatever way you like. I found I just lost the interest to reply to your post seriously.
    Once again, I disagree with your crap,,,sorry your opinion, about Yagudin. Fortunately, how you feel the interpretation of music by different people is subjective, while musicality and sophistication are objective, that's actually something you can visibly see. That would have been the 9th wonder of the world if he could step on each beat of the music by chance every time without that musicality and total control of his blades.
    who cares who you really like, it's that some people keep posting those non-factual things about certain skaters to mislead people makes me feel it's just so low.
    And hey, here's another program of Yagudin's, I didn't see any of his facial expression, but they lift the audiences to their feet again.
    It's obvious that you are not sorry. Probably I should have called your opinion "crap" too instead of trying to explain why I can't agree with your "opinions" about Lambiel? Perhaps then you would understand me better? Otherwise it seems that we are talking in two very different languages. But I still want to know - what did I write that is so "misleading" and "low"? Me liking Yagudin's recent show programs, but not being as excited about them as I was about his earlier programs and his programs from the TV shows? Or me agreeing that Yagudin is musical? Because I sure as hell didn't say that Yagudin is not musical. How could I when I don't think that? I really have no idea where did you read that. I didn't even say that Lambiel is more musical than Yagudin, just that he is not less musical - I don't see how is that low. It's your problem that you can't read and understand properly.

    As for "rough around the edges" - for me it is nothing negative. Yes, probably I used the wrong expression in this case, but English is not my native language, and I don't know how to say it better. Another way to say it could be that Yagudin's skating can seem less refined and controlled, and more unrestrained. Not that I think that Lambiel's skating is really restrained. Anyway, I was just trying to guess what you meant by "natural" and "organic", and to have a discussion instead of an argument. Unfortunately, you don't want to have a discussion, and you don't want to explain, so I will remain unknowing.

    One more thing about "misleading". You accuse me of writing "non-factual" and "misleading" things, but your "opinions" that all of Lambiel's programs are "the same" and "sweet sugar" are much more superficial and misleading than anything that I said about Yagudin. I wouldn't be surprised if you don't want to explain yourself simply because you can't.

    Romance by Yagudin and his partner
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqkzOUMDa5c
    I liked this program when I watched it on TV, and I still like it - just as many other programs that they skated in the 'Ice Age' show. It's Yagudin's solo programs that don't excite me that much anymore (although I like almost all of them), not his TV show programs together with Lanskaya.
    Last edited by lauravvv; 07-28-2013 at 02:24 AM.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    I do. So similar... and always the nice guy..those are the most exciting things what he is doing in backstage. No, I was wrong, I saw a program that was very excitnig, he was with some girls..
    Again, a very superficial statement. How are Run, Paint It Black, Let The Good Times Roll, Prelude in G minor, Rigoletto, My Body Is a Cage, A Chorus Line and Don't Stop The Music so similar? You can't judge just by the genre of music (classical, jazz, or so on), or by costume. Yes, Lambiel has never played a real "bad guy", but "the nice guy" doesn't cover someone who feels like his body is a cage, and is trying to break free ('My Body Is a Cage'), a drunk man after a night in the club ('Don't Stop The Music'), a soldier who dares to dream of a softer life just for a moment, but can't really allow himself to feel emotions ('Prelude in G minor'), someone who feels that there is darkness in his soul ('Paint It Black'), or a narcissistic duke ('Rigoletto').

    Lambiel is not the only skater in this poll who has played different roles in his programs, but not really a "bad guy" - the same can be said of Browning, Buttle and others. Talking about skaters who are not a part of this poll, I somehow don't remember any programs where your favorite skater (Plushenko, of course) plays a real bad guy, although he has played different roles too. But I wouldn't say that all of his programs are similar because of that. "good guy" versus "bad guy" is really very simplified and superficial.
    Last edited by lauravvv; 07-29-2013 at 01:00 AM.

  3. #83
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    Simply post videos to wash my eyes
    Speaking of dancing, versatile, and athleticism all together, this guy is simply not human, that's why he doesn't belong to this poll.
    Robin Cousins skates to Julian Lloyd Webber's music
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt7u...4C78319BCE7705



    And there's a whole bunch of his videos on that channel.
    Last edited by unicorn; 07-28-2013 at 02:47 PM.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    Simply post videos to wash my eyes
    Speaking of dancing, versatile, and athleticism all together, this guy is simply not human, that's why he doesn't belong to this poll.
    Robin Cousins skates to Julian Lloyd Webber's music
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt7u...4C78319BCE7705
    Amazing.

    Among ladies, why isn't there true artists such as Curry, Cousins, Lambiel?
    M.y.s.t.e.r.y.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by t.mann View Post
    Amazing.

    Among ladies, why isn't there true artists such as Curry, Cousins, Lambiel?
    M.y.s.t.e.r.y.
    I notice your order changed, Lambiel is not just 2nd to Curry now? As far as I know, there are quite some beautiful performances from women's discipline too.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    I notice your order changed, Lambiel is not just 2nd to Curry now?
    lol. Your eyes are sharp.

    But Lambiel is yet the 2nd artist for me.
    Cousins is more versatile. But I can not ignore Lambiel's uniqueness(Lambielesque-) which will stand out still after many many years.
    Last edited by t.mann; 07-29-2013 at 01:12 PM.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    Again, a very superficial statement. How are Run, Paint It Black, Let The Good Times Roll, Prelude in G minor, Rigoletto, My Body Is a Cage, A Chorus Line and Don't Stop The Music so similar? You can't judge just by the genre of music (classical, jazz, or so on), or by costume. Yes, Lambiel has never played a real "bad guy", but "the nice guy" doesn't cover someone who feels like his body is a cage, and is trying to break free ('My Body Is a Cage'), a drunk man after a night in the club ('Don't Stop The Music'), a soldier who dares to dream of a softer life just for a moment, but can't really allow himself to feel emotions ('Prelude in G minor'), someone who feels that there is darkness in his soul ('Paint It Black'), or a narcissistic duke ('Rigoletto').
    There is an interesting comment on Youtube " Lambiel always looks like the Sad Prince to me". It is exactly what I feel too when I watch him, no matter the program, to me he looks fragile and feminine. Thar's why I prefer Browning, without dening Lambie'sl talent or the beauty of his programs. It'a only a matter of perception.
    I voted for Browning, Yagudin and Lambiel.
    Last edited by ciocio; 07-29-2013 at 12:16 PM.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    There is an interesting comment on Youtube " Lambiel always looks like the Sad Prince to me". It is exactly what I feel too when I watch him, no matter the program, to me he looks fragile and feminine.
    Oh. My. God! this is exactly what I mean!! I can't believe...

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciocio View Post
    There is an interesting comment on Youtube " Lambiel always looks like the Sad Prince to me". It is exactly what I feel too when I watch him, no matter the program, to me he looks fragile and feminine. Thar's why I prefer Browning, without dening Lambie'sl talent or the beauty of his programs. It'a only a matter of perception.
    I voted for Browning, Yagudin and Lambiel.
    I can understand that (the "Sad prince") in regard to some programs, but he also has light and energetic programs where he is smiling and flirting a lot ('Tainted Love', 'Let The Good Times Roll', 'Rigoletto', 'Something Got Me Started', 'A Chorus Line') - doesn't look like the ''sad prince" to me at all . Also, come to think of it, I wouldn't describe 'Paint It Black' as "the sad prince" either. As for "fragile" and "feminine" - that's more about Lambiel's looks, physique and his natural gracefulness (which is something that he can't help, no matter how many different programs he would try to make), than about his abilities as a performer.

    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    Oh. My. God! this is exactly what I mean!! I can't believe...
    But that's not exactly the same as "the nice guy", is it ? Also, see what I wrote to ciocio above.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    I can understand that (the "Sad prince") in regard to some programs, but he also has light and energetic programs where he is smiling and flirting a lot ('Tainted Love', 'Let The Good Times Roll', 'Rigoletto', 'Something Got Me Started', 'A Chorus Line') - doesn't look like the ''sad prince" to me at all . Also, come to think of it, I wouldn't describe 'Paint It Black' as "the sad prince" either. As for "fragile" and "feminine" - that's more about Lambiel's looks, physique and his natural gracefulness (which is something that he can't help, no matter how many different programs he would try to make), than about his abilities as a performer.

    But that's not exactly the same as "the nice guy", is it ? Also, see what I wrote to ciocio above.
    he looks soft, fragile, feminine....he isn't diverse... and yes nice guy, always. but I think it's not bad...

  11. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by t.mann View Post
    Amazing.

    Among ladies, why isn't there true artists such as Curry, Cousins, Lambiel?
    M.y.s.t.e.r.y.
    There are, but they usually don't win international medals because they focus on dance instead of jumping. Sarah Kawahara, Belita, and Katherine Healy for example. A lot of the "artistic" men mention in their biographies that they were discouraged from going into dance - not so for the women.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    he looks soft, fragile, feminine....he isn't diverse... and yes nice guy, always. but I think it's not bad...
    Okay, I will try to ask again - what does "diverse", or not "diverse" has to do with one's looks and physique (because Lambiel seems "soft" and "fragile" exactly because of his looks and physique)? I think it has more to do with the style, idea, mood and choreography of the programs. If those are diverse/versatile, then the skater is diverse/versatile. Also, Stephane can look fragile, but is he really that fragile if he can do programs that are not physically easy (because programs that are filled with choreo and steps are not physically easy even without jumps)? Besides, judging by the muscles on his slender arms, he spends quite a lot of time in gym (actually, as a fan I know he does) .

    As for what you call "feminine" - yes, there are very few male skaters who use their arms/hands as beautifully and gracefully as Lambiel does. It's one of those things which make him unique, so I can't view that as a minus, even though some people think that it's feminine.

    I don't know if you read my previous response to you (with examples of programs). If you read it, and still think that Lambiel is just a "nice guy", and not diverse, then I have only one conclusion - a male skater has to dress in women's clothing, baby clothes (or both at the same time ), or in fake muscles costume for you to think that he is diverse . Sometimes it can be fun, but I am so glad that Stephane will never do that . Jokes aside, it seems that our ways of thinking and our perceptions are just too different. A few years ago I too thought that Stephane is a beautiful, elegant prince and a dandy who will probably never be something else, but over those past few years I have changed my mind completely, as Stephane continues to surprise me again and again. He has done at least several things that I thought he will never do. Not so long ago I was watching videos of his exhibition programs, and was almost daunted by how different he can be, and even more by the thought of what his body of work will look like in five or so years, as I don't believe that his creative mind will run dry soon. Yes, perceptions are very different.
    Last edited by lauravvv; 07-30-2013 at 03:26 AM.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    Speaking of dancing, versatile, and athleticism all together
    You emphasize it like other skaters on this poll are not athletic. I think that all skaters who do programs that are physically difficult are athletic, no matter if they are tall or short, broad shouldered, or not so broad shouldered, really "manly" looking, or more of the feminine type. And by physically difficult I don't mean just filled with jumps, but also filled with choreography, moves and steps - such programs are difficult even without multiple jumps.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    There are, but they usually don't win international medals because they focus on dance instead of jumping. Sarah Kawahara, Belita, and Katherine Healy for example. A lot of the "artistic" men mention in their biographies that they were discouraged from going into dance - not so for the women.
    Helpful answer.
    Thank you.

    Anyway, men who have entered into this sport with artistic ambitions seem much more than ladies, IMO.
    Last edited by t.mann; 07-30-2013 at 05:29 AM.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    You emphasize it like other skaters on this poll are not athletic. I think that all skaters who do programs that are physically difficult are athletic, no matter if they are tall or short, broad shouldered, or not so broad shouldered, really "manly" looking, or more of the feminine type. And by physically difficult I don't mean just filled with jumps, but also filled with choreography, moves and steps - such programs are difficult even without multiple jumps.
    No, not everyone was as athletic as him. Seems someone's feminine comment touched someone's sensitive spot, hey, that has nothing to do with my posts

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    that has nothing to do with my posts
    Of course, nothing to do with your posts, you even posted just recently Cousins's program which is a good example of something people might call feminine in men's skating.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by reut View Post
    Of course, nothing to do with your posts, you even posted just recently Cousins's program which is a good example of something people might call feminine in men's skating.
    Really, I saw lots of fans proudly called some skaters balletic in men's skating.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    No, not everyone was as athletic as him. Seems someone's feminine comment touched someone's sensitive spot, hey, that has nothing to do with my posts
    You wrote your post some time before that comment. I responded to the posts in reverse order, but that doesn't mean that I read them in that order . Anyway, that is what I truly think - the thought that anything else than the difficulty of the programs could define whether a skater is athletic or not seems laughable to me. And I think that all of the skaters in this poll are athletic enough - actually, it's difficult to imagine someone among successful skaters who is not, otherwise they would not be successful.

    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    Really, I saw lots of fans proudly called some skaters balletic in men's skating.
    Is that necessarily feminine? Men dance in ballet too . But reut is right - there are people who think otherwise. In their opinion male ballet dancers are feminine as well.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    I had no time to watch, I just respond . For me he is too busy on ice, he did too much movements, annoys me,and he lacks of strength. Stef is a bit overact that he is very artistic, he is too much for me. This is matter of taste.
    I also liked better Robin Cousins's skating. I went crazy for him, when I was a very very young girl
    ----------

    Alexander Godunov wasn't feminine, and I also don't think that Tsiskaridze was too feminine on stage.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicorn View Post
    No, not everyone was as athletic as him. Seems someone's feminine comment touched someone's sensitive spot, hey, that has nothing to do with my posts
    Maybe reut felt that comment had something to do with your posts though because you praised Cousins earlier for his manly interpretation of a program - as one of his great qualities I suppose - but then shared here another program of his where he hardly epitomizes masculinity in figure skating.

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