View Poll Results: Kostner vs Ando- better career
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Ando did a quad though
Originally Posted by usova94gold
I wouldn't brag about that.
Originally Posted by Macassar88
Originally Posted by Marco
It's sooo because it might be < or << under modern cop rules but it was done under 6.0!! And it was ratified! Like Kurt browning might be < or <<!!!
And why not Surya's ?
Originally Posted by caseyedwards
- Rep Power
People say Ando has no embarassing finishes at Worlds. Well she does at the Olympics (2006) and just prevented a couple from Worlds by either not being sent to get embarassed again (2006 Worlds) or quitting without even being injured rather than completing to a 15th type place finish (2008 Worlds).
Better Skater = Kostner
Better Federation = Ando
Better Personal Champions = Kostner (Speedy vs Morozov)
Better Medals = Ando
Better Programs = Kostner
Better Luck = Ando
Better Popularity = Kostner
Better Quads = Ando
Better Judge's favour = Kostner
Better Sporting Agency (at press handling) = Ando
Better Outfits = Kostner
Better Consistency = Ando
Better Artistry = Kostner?
Better Tech = Ando?
Better Money = ?
Better Youtube Views = ?
Better Fans = ?
Better Career = 54:46
Depends on East/West report/hype. Though Kostner should exceed Ando in the long run after their competitive careers are over in the show circuit around Europe. I think she already has leading her own Opera on ICE show in Italy.
Lets say we assign points to each achievement:
World title- 10 points
World silver- 5 points
World bronze- 3 points
Olympic Gold- 20 points
Olympic silver- 10 points
Olympic bronze- 5 points
Grand Prix final Gold- 5 points
Grand Prix final Silver- 3 points
Grand Prix final Bronze- 2 points
European title- 2 points
Japanese National title (given tougher field than Europeans and since Miki barely skates 4CCs so we use this instead)- 4 points
Regular grand prix win- 2 points
Kostner would have:
2012 World title- 10 points
2008 World silver- 5 points
2013 World silver- 5 points
2005 World bronze- 3 points
2011 World bronze- 3 points
World points- 26 points
2012 Grand Prix final gold- 5 points
2011 Grand Prix final silver- 3 points
2008 Grand Prix final bronze- 2 points
2009 Grand Prix final bronze- 2 points
Grand Prix final points- 12 points
5 European titles- 10 points
Grand Prix event wins- 8 points (4 of them)
Total points- 56 points
2 World titles- 10 points
1 World bronze- 3 points
World points- 23 points
1 Grand Prix final silver- 3 points
Grand Prix final points- 3 points
3 Japanese National titles- 12 points
Grand prix event wins (5 of them)- 10 points
Total points- 48 points
Even for those who think my Grand Prix final points are generous Kostner would still come out ahead slightly probably.
Except Ando has Mao to compete at home, and Kostner's strongest competitor in EU arn't as tough or consistent. There also seems more controversial ranking results in Kostner's career than Ando. I have no preferences, but just saying...
Originally Posted by judgejudy27
I gave Ando double the points for winning Nationals as I gave Kostner for winning Europeans though so I already took into consideration what you said. How much further should one go, punish Kostner for totally dominating Europeans like she is supposed to be doing. Ando earned more points from Nationals than Kostner did for Europeans under my points scale despite that Kostner has been way more dominant at Europeans than Ando at Nationals. For the record I dont think Ando would have won Europeans 5 times even if she had the opportunity to compete in it and she traded places with Kostner (she wasnt ever winning it before 2007, and she wouldnt have competed in it past 2011, and someone like Lepisto would have beaten her atleast once), and the competition at Europeans was actually harder 2003-2006 than Japanese Nationals since Slutskaya > anyone in Japan at the time, so I was more than generous to Miki in that estimate. Miki won 2 of her 3 Nationals when her toughest was Suguri, while Kostner would have had to beat Slutskaya to win a Europeans before 2007. During the time the competition at Japanese Nationals was truly much tougher than Europeans Kostner won 5 Europeans and Miki 1 Nationals.
As for controversial wins Ando's 2011 World title was controversial to some people. Her 2009 Worlds medal also should have been considering her getting higher PCS than Rochette and Asada with her programs at the time is a joke, and that is the only reason she barely medalled over Mao. Ando's fall 2009 grand prix wins, and even one of her fall 2010 wins over Suzuki had some complaints at the time too.
Well Kim's program was inspiring but she didn't skate it well that night. Ando had no program but just went through the motions like doing a run-through on practice ice when another skater's music was playing.
Originally Posted by HVS
Kostner really deserved the highest PCS of the night.
- Rep Power
I've just watched Kostner's LP again and she was even more shaky than Kim was. With placing 6th in the short and low technical content in both segments she wouldn't place above Kim or Ando anyway.
I would've given Kim 64-65, Kostner 61-62 and Ando 58-60 respectively.
Those PCS sound exactly right and would have seen Ando lose the title to Kim (as most believe she should have, aka one of her controversial wins-medals). Had Ando done her 4CC performances it would have been good enough to deserve beating a lackluster Kim, but she didnt.
Originally Posted by munow
Miki barely lost to kim on PCS by 1 in SP, and 2 in FS. Although kim's programs were not better than her.
Miki Ando FShttp://youtu.be/ZD_AtQv9ub4
Yuna kim FShttp://youtu.be/bHqwxLU4mIc
I don't know why she chose traditional music of her country which is really internationally unknown. First of all, music choice was bad, unfamiliar.. I(And maybe many figuer skating fans....) don't like transitions and musics of that program. In particular, humming was weird
Let's compare... At any point, kim's was better?
Last edited by torren; 07-18-2013 at 11:54 AM.
There is more to the PCS than programs. There is basic skating skills, interpretation, performance. Kim even on her worst day is far superior to Ando and her clunky two foot skating in all of those. As another poster said Ando could be skating to anyones music when she performs, it makes no difference. Looking at the protocals I see Ando actually had higher PCS than Kostner in both programs at those Worlds. A huge ROTFL to that. So much for Kostner being the more held up or overscored one.
So you admitted that Miki's programs were better than kim's in artistically, right?
Originally Posted by judgejudy27
Last edited by torren; 07-18-2013 at 08:53 AM.
Although im a huge Kostner fan. Atm i believe Ando to have had the better career. However after this next season and OLYMPICS i will hopefully feel different.
you're joking right?? her arirang/homage to korea is probably the most underrated LP of yuna. what do you mean about "many many figure skating fans that the program is bad? many fans even her doubters considered it as probably her best lp since the lark ascending. and if she was just committed into this and skated clean it would have been the best LP in her career and she only lost by 1 point..
Originally Posted by torren
Uh big fat YES Kim's programs are certainly better than Ando's programs by a planet. Artistically challenging, risk taking, original, authentic, meaningful, emotional and intellectually moving than anything Ando/Morozov has ever produced. 2+ years on, I am still gutted at the biased marking and frosty crowd reception at the rink (Or that Yuna was snubbed out of the official world championship booklet published by Japan/Russia/ISU).
Originally Posted by torren
It is a joke Ando's PCS climbed massive 14 points in the same season for exactly the same program year before with just better packaging doing back to back jumps and basic strokes with her Morozovian cookie cutter program of simple segmentation routines and massive number crunching, and the judges ate it up like their favourite M&Ms Tsunami flavoured. The FS technical content is also inferior to her 4CCs. Ironically I have always felt had Mao been doing better that season, Yuna could have won. Also had there been better judging and more favourable crowd reception in Russia, there might have been 3 spots for the Russian ladies today for Sochi and no Yuna for 2013, 2014.
Last edited by os168; 07-18-2013 at 11:43 AM.