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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by HVS View Post
    Hmm, I compared Kostner in the ladies field What the point you compare her with Chan - the one usually overscored? The fact she got lower score than Chan doesn't mean she underscored. I don't think we can really compare the scoring for ladies with the men or dance
    Because the issue that Proustable was addressing was that the ladies are generally marked lower in PCS compared to the other disciplines. I brought up this disparity upthread, and I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask why the ladies, even those with great skating skills, IJS-friendly programs and strong interpretation and performance abilities, are consistently scored lower than the equivalent men, pairs and ice dancers. In all other disciplines, top skaters regularly score over 9 in the components and in ice dance, it can be close to 10 (don't get me started on that). Kostner couldn't even crack 9 skating in top form and as a world champion (the WTT example).

    Considering you missed the point Proustable and I were making, maybe you should be the one getting .

  2. #42
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    Kevin's PCS should never come close to being in the 8's. Not with his overall skating skills which are mediocre. I don't care if he lands 10 quads.

  3. #43

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    If we really compare ladies with other disciplines, can I say Yuna Kim was underscored too?

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by HVS View Post
    If we really compare ladies with other disciplines, can I say Yuna Kim was underscored too?
    On PCS, compared to the world champions in pairs and dance? I would say that she is, absolutely (see below). Relative to other ladies? Probably not. In terms of what I think her PCS should be like? Somewhat, yes.

    But put it this way: Kostner won 2012 Worlds with a great LP, and she's about as close to prototype IJS skater as you will find among the ladies. Her components in the LP averaged 8.21. The next highest was Mao Asada, whose average was 7.5. Three men outscored Kostner on PCS (Chan, Takahashi, Hanyu) and three were in the ballpark of what she received (Joubert, Amodio, Abbott). Nine had a higher average than Asada: the previously mentioned six along with Michael Brezina, Samuel Contesti and Javier Fernandez. Twelve men did better on average than the lady with the third highest PCS, Akiko Suzuki. So essentially, a mid-level men's skater was getting higher PCS than one of the best and most artistic ladies in the field. I'm glad that we're seeing something of a correction. Yet still, at this year's Worlds, Yuna Kim averaged 9.2 in her LP, while in their comparable programs, V/T averaged 9.31, D/W, 9.82, and V/M, 9.76. Looking at what Kim put on the ice compared to V/T, I don't think their program and skating were superior to hers.

    Dance PCS have been ridiculously high for several years now, and not just at the very top.

  5. #45
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    I think we can draw a more direct comparison between men and ladies because their required elements are pretty much the same - jumps, spins and step sequences. Maybe - just maybe - the judges are reluctant to reward the ladies with PCS similar to the PCS of the men skaters because the level of difficulty in the ladies' programs is not as high as in the men's and also there's more speed in a man's skating versus a lady's skating. Yuna and Carolina are very fast skaters but how many men do they actually beat in speed, power and ice coverage?

    Now I realize thanks to the discussion in this thread that the judges tend to be more generous with the PC marks in all the three disciplines involving men than they are with their respective marks for the ladies' event. lol

    Patrick Chan wasn't clean at the 2011 or 2012 Worlds in the long program. He got nines (ditto Worlds 2013, but it wasn't his average). Patrick Chan was squeaky clean in the short at Worlds 2011. He couldn't get nines.
    Aren't the PCSs usually higher in the long program than the short one? See Savchenko/Szolkowy at 2012 Worlds - clean SP versus flawed LP. Or Takahashi at 2012 GPF - he didn't break the magical number 9 for a clean SP but did so for a flawed LP with a fall.

  6. #46
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    Yes, which is in and of itself a flaw.

    Zemgirl articulated my point.

    I think Yretha Silethe and Viktoria Helgesson also deserve higher PCS scores. The latter had my favourite ladies long program of the 11/12 season, actually.

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