View Poll Results: If Sasha had not Sasha Splat, who would have won?

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  • Michelle

    25 38.46%
  • Sasha

    40 61.54%
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by berthesghost View Post
    Shrug. Dumping TT for Robin in the 11th hour just threw it all out the window IMO.
    I thought Tarasova had dumped her since she was upset with her work ethic.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I thought Tarasova had dumped her since she was upset with her work ethic.
    That's my recollection of the story too. I recall hearing more than once that Sasha only wanted to focus on what she did well and didn't focus enough on strengthening her weaknesses or upping the technical ante (she did not attempt triple+triples post-2003).

  3. #23

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    No one was touching Kwan that night. Kwan would have edged her out on the artistic mark.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  4. #24
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    Never was a fan of Cohen's but this was her event to lose, like most from 2002 onwards were. Kwan did skate great but I doubt it would have denied a clean Cohen if the judges were willing to give Cohen 6.0s even with a fall like they did.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by attyfan View Post
    IMO, by 2004, Michelle was gunning to tie the record, and the USFSA wouldn't deny it to her.
    This comment is interesting only since it makes me wonder if you think the USFSA tells U.S judges how to score? If that is the case you must think this would happen regularly at Nationals too, and not just on this occasion. I dont know if this is true but it is possible, especialy seeing some results there were so ridiculous like Weir losing Nationals to Lysacek despite skating way better, and by 0.01. Obvious fix, so it probably happened more than once.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lnt175 View Post
    Yes I think 2004 could have been a spectacular year for Cohen, and she could have done it. Same thing at worlds that year, however it just wasn't meant to be.
    What a bummer for her to totally dominate most of the season, then come 3rd at the 3 biggest events to 3 different skaters- Suguri at the Grand Prix final, Kwan at Nationals, and Arakawa at Worlds, probably due to her own falls each time.

    2004 and 2006 both could have been Cohen years, and the 2003-2006 quad could have been the Cohen quad. Apparently she didnt want that to be the case though.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I thought Tarasova had dumped her since she was upset with her work ethic.
    Is that what happened? I remember it more as TT dared to criticize her, and momma Cohen was all "oh hell no, nobody puts baby in a corner. we're outie". Oh well.

  8. #28
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    Cohen should have kissed Tatiana's arse to stay with her, as she was a far better coach for her at that point than Wagner or an old John Nicks. Nicks was still a good coach but had already done as much for her as he could by that point probably, given how long they had been together, and the stage of his career he was at.

    Maybe Sasha was getting fed up and upset she didnt win any of Nationals 2003, Worlds 2003 or Grand Prix final 2004 and that is why she dumped Tarasova to punish her for not winning any of those events.

  9. #29
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    I think it's hard to go by what kind of scores Sasha would have had at Nationals had she skated clean. We can't go by that one judge who gave Sasha a 6.0 because that judge ultimately put Kwan in first. If Sasha skated cleanly and Michelle skated the same way she had at 2004 Nationals, I can see a split decision either way. It would have depended on who was more on fire that night, and Kwan's 2004 Nationals (although not nearly her best choreography) was one of the most aggressive and fiery performances she ever gave. It's telling that this video is still the most watched Kwan video on youtube and for the longest time was the first video to pop up when you just typed "Michelle Kwan" on the youtube search engine. It was also under 6.0 where judges were rewarding the bigger picture a bit more than COP.

    We'll never know how they would have been scored had both skated similarly with the same attack and passion because they never did. The only times they were both "clean" was 2003 Worlds QR where Kwan was first, Sokolova second, and Cohen third. But Cohen improved after that and I think she didn't skate with as much attack as she would have later on in her career. At 2004 Nationals and Worlds SP, Cohen was on fire while Kwan was a bit off (either in one of her jump elements and in presentation at Nationals or with her timing and the shine was sort of lost compared to the previous year). I guess you can argue that 2005 Worlds QR was telling as Kwan skated a clean routine but was edged out by Cohen who was a bit off, but then Worlds 2005 was under COP in which Kwan wasn't as prepared as she should have been for Moscow and it was performed much better at Nationals in terms of timing and musicality when hitting the beats.
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 07-14-2013 at 01:32 AM.

  10. #30
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    I think the judges would have gone with Sasha since at their point they were very closely matched if both skated well, but it was already apparent Sasha was probably their better hope for 2006, especialy with the new judging system coming in. Sasha had just lost the GP final and the judges would have wanted to give her a momentum and confidence booster for Worlds, and start resending the message to the World it was a changing of the guard and the Sasha Cohen era was underway (which it turned out never got going).

    It is very hard to say for certain though. I wouldnt bet alot of money on what the judges would have done either.

  11. #31

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    I feel like they were polishing Cohen's crown, it was her event to lose. And she did. Kwan however put up, as usual, an amazing fight. Had Cohen been perfect, I think they would have still given it to her. One could argue a higher technical mark based on her spins.

  12. #32
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    Cohen also had 7 triples vs Kwan`s 6. I think the judges would have given Cohen mostly 5.9s for technical and 6.0s for presentation even before Kwan skated had she truly skated perfectly, especialy with the scores she got for a bad fall and badly two footed triple lutz. They wouldnt have been truly shutting the door on Kwan given her history of 6.0s at Nationals, just forcing her to do a triple-triple or something worthy of 6.0., 6.0 to win; which would have more likely been 5.8, 5.9 or 5.8, 6.0 had Cohen already skated perfectly as well.

    I am even more surprised some think Cohen couldnt have beaten Arakawa at Worlds that year. Nationals atleast I could see the varied opinions, as I said it is still hard to say for sure given Kwan`s amazingly spirited skate, and her popularity at Nationals over the years. However at Worlds she skated a really weak performance overall and still missed beating Shizuka by 2 judges. Worlds even more than Nationals was completely hers to lose, regardless what any of Arakawa, Kwan, recent GPF Champ Suguri, etc... had done. It could be argued Sasha wouldnt have deserved to beat Shizuka with all her triple-triples even with a perfect skate, but given how the judges scored it is 110% certain she would have won.

    So when I see people say she couldnt have won the GPF, Nationals, or Worlds that year even skating cleanly I die of laughter when it comes to the GPF, and also get a good laugh at anyone who says Worlds. Nationals is the only one I could see even being slightly complicated. For the record I am far from a Cohen fan, and in terms of my fandom metre she ranks just one notch above Hughes and Ando (which those familiar with me can figure out isnt very high). Ultimately I am happy she screwed up as often as she did in her career and didnt win more big events. I dont like to root for people to miss, but I also just could never quite get into her. I cant totaly explain why, maybe it was her attitude or some vibe about her that turned me off, but cant say for sure.
    Last edited by judgejudy27; 07-14-2013 at 04:29 AM.

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