View Poll Results: If Sasha had not Sasha Splat, who would have won?

Voters
65. You may not vote on this poll
  • Michelle

    25 38.46%
  • Sasha

    40 61.54%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 32
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,824
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0

    It is the off season! 2004 US National Ladies

    I feel like the judges were pulling for Sasha, especially considering the fact that one judge gave her a 6.0 with her flawed LP. Dick and Peggy as well.

    Michelle however delivered an amazing program but did not have the difficulty Sasha had. But I don't think Sasha could have ever pulled off such an emotional performance the way Michelle did.

    I think the deciding factor would be Sasha skating before Michelle, and therefore Michelle would have won the LP.

    What do you think?
    Last edited by UGG; 07-10-2013 at 05:21 AM.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    7,390
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    4361
    IMO, by 2004, Michelle was gunning to tie the record, and the USFSA wouldn't deny it to her.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,781
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    19086
    Sasha could have won with a perfectly executed program.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Partying with Oda
    Posts
    4,222
    vCash
    1799
    Rep Power
    33132
    Sasha. She was amazing and, had she not had "Sasha splat," she could have had more than the one US title she has. The girl had something special that can't be taught.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,781
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    19086
    Remember that the doors were open wide for Sasha after Michelle barely held on to the 2A in the SP.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    11,175
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Judges were definitely wanting to give it to Sasha. But then with the way Michelle skated, it's hard to deny her the championship (no matter how Sasha skated).

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    4,763
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Michelle

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Turzynbaeva is the new Gedevanishvili
    Posts
    8,468
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Sasha splat.

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    12,332
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Michelle Kwan's LP was unbeatable, IMO. She was so fantastic that night.
    Even a clean Sasha Cohen couldn't have such confidence on the landing of each jump.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,781
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    19086
    Sasha's landings were pretty confident in the SP.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    409
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I always felt Sasha would have won every competition in the 2003-2006 quad had she skated cleanly, minus the 2005 Worlds. Also minus the 2006 Olympics had Arakawa or Slutskaya skated perfectly with their full content, but with what the others put out she would have won there too.

    Thus on this poll I voted Sasha, even though Michelle skated outstandingly that night so probably would have been close.

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    with my Sestra Helena plotting how to ravish Hot Paul and delicious Cal
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,255
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I believe the judges were ready to fully reward Sasha by this point in Michelle's career. Unfortunately for Sasha, clean skates in the LP never came to fruition for her and she needed to be clean to compete against Kwan's consistent steadiness and stronger technique. Remember, at this stage Kwan was skipping the international GP series and only competing at Nationals and Worlds and I think the judges knew Kwan was headed toward the close of her eligible career. Sasha was being heralded on national tv constantly as "THE most talented skater in the world" and she offered a newer, fresher face to US ladies skating and was supposed to fill Kwan's skates upon her retirement, although this never really materialized. Nevertheless, Cohen was a pretty steady podium finisher and helped the US maintain 3 spots at Worlds for 5 consecutive years (2003-2007) based on her previous year finishes.

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    409
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Sad to Sasha is remembered as a failure to alot of people since she didnt dominate and win the big titles like she was supposed to do. I wonder if she should have continued past 2006. Then again the technical level of womens skating was being taken to new heights by Asada, Kim, and Ando, and Asada and Kim had great presntation too, so if she couldnt even beat old Kwan, old Slutskaya, and journeyperson Shizuka for big titles, she probably wasnt ever going to win any against that group.

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,824
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kuzytalent View Post
    Sad to Sasha is remembered as a failure to alot of people since she didnt dominate and win the big titles like she was supposed to do. I wonder if she should have continued past 2006. Then again the technical level of womens skating was being taken to new heights by Asada, Kim, and Ando, and Asada and Kim had great presntation too, so if she couldnt even beat old Kwan, old Slutskaya, and journeyperson Shizuka for big titles, she probably wasnt ever going to win any against that group.
    Well I think she would have won nationals between 2007-2010 had she continued to skate at the same ability she was in 2006. I mean she was 2nd in the short program at 2010 nats with a 3 year absense. So it is possible she could have been a 5 time US champ.

    If she could not win worlds in 2006 I don't see how she could have ever won a world championship 2007 or beyond. I think internationally she could have been seen a dark horse for bronze between 2007-2010.

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    473
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    Well I think she would have won nationals between 2007-2010 had she continued to skate at the same ability she was in 2006. I mean she was 2nd in the short program at 2010 nats with a 3 year absense. So it is possible she could have been a 5 time US champ.

    If she could not win worlds in 2006 I don't see how she could have ever won a world championship 2007 or beyond. I think internationally she could have been seen a dark horse for bronze between 2007-2010.
    If Sasha skates lights out (ie two perfect programs), she would probably have been able to top Ando in 2007. 2008 wouldn't have been too hard for her to win, considering that Asada, Kim, and Kostner all had mistakes in both portions of the competition (if Asada's UR counts). She wouldn't have beaten Kim in 2009 or 2010.

    Regarding 2004, I think the judges gave Sasha the 'preference' (as seen by her high SP scores before Kwan even skated). But Kwan sold the shit out of her LP and skated lights out, so it would have been hard to say. Besides, Nationals and MK are always a big lovefest.

    Another question out of curiosity, how did you think the ladies would have stacked up behind the top 2? I certainly didn't expect Amber Corwin to place 4th. I was thinking Kirk, McDonough, Liang, then Corwin, though perhaps with McDonough's injury she would have been predicted to place lower (as she did). IMO, 2004 was the big year for Bebe to make the big jump up - if she skated well, she would have been 4th, which would have given her much more leverage going into the following year. It's too bad that didn't materialize then.

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Paris, France
    Age
    25
    Posts
    198
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    What is a "not Sasha splat"? Is it a clean Sasha with 6 triples or 7 triples?

    I can see a clean Swan Lake with 7 triples win over a clean Tosca with 6 triples (yes, even with the butchered Wagner's version), but if both programs were clean with 6 triples each, I agree it would depend on the skating order. Being a MK fan should not prevent me from acknowledging that Michelle's Tosca was quite empty, choreography wise.

    Who cares anyway. The fact is Sasha did not perform well, and Michelle was wonderful. Her most emotional national title IMO, 1998 a close second.

  17. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    128
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Sasha would have never won the 2007 Worlds. Ando skated cleanly with super hard triple-triples. Sasha would be so far behind in not only content but jump GOE, she would never make up the gap with everything else. Plus the judges were excited by this new generation and would have had no interest in an old generation skater be that Cohen, Kwan, Slutskaya, or whoever was foolish enough to stick around once Kim and Asada turned senior. Sasha's PCS from 2005-2006 were barely higher than someone like Ando in 2007, and no higher than what people like Kim and Asada were already getting, and as she had already peaked as a skater this wasnt going to suddenly change for aging Sasha who had yet to win a big title.

    2008 Worlds would have been her only chance but she would have had to skate clean given her lesser technical skills, and that wouldnt have happened when she couldnt even deliver cleanly in her physical prime which she would have been past by 2008.

    Regarding 2004 Nationals though yes Sasha skating cleanly wins. Sasha could have won every event from 2003-2006 skating cleanly. Some say she couldnt have won 2003 Worlds over Michelle and even more say she couldnt have won 2005 Worlds over Irina. However I say she could since she was doing a triple lutz-triple toe in 2003 and Michelle wasnt doing any triple-triples, and in 2005 Irina had alot of mistakes even though her long seemed spectacular on the surface it too had built in deductions. Certainly alot more likely for her to win any of those events than any of the post 2006 events, especialy 2007 Worlds.

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,781
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    19086
    I can say one thing for sure about Michelle in the LP at 2004 Nationals, she proved that she learned to win when she really wanted to win, as opposed to just wanting to do her best.

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    356
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Yes I think 2004 could have been a spectacular year for Cohen, and she could have done it. Same thing at worlds that year, however it just wasn't meant to be.

  20. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    4,890
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Lnt175 View Post
    Yes I think 2004 could have been a spectacular year for Cohen, and she could have done it. Same thing at worlds that year, however it just wasn't meant to be.
    Shrug. Dumping TT for Robin in the 11th hour just threw it all out the window IMO.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •