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  1. #1
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    How would you score the 2013 Worlds Men's Competition under 6.0?

    With all the discussion on how the 2013 men's competition should be placed, how would you score the skaters under 6.0? I will rank the top 10 finishers in the SP and LP.

    Here are individual performances:
    Chan
    SP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x3d6Y5nSYs
    LP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toCdAb3ucCs

    Ten
    SP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXqbfzY5HHk
    LP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ0iGuaRAm4

    Fernandez
    SP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImBgKOBSvAo
    LP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHEMhLbVWM0

    Hanyu
    SP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ2vbfHgyZs
    LP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A2Fk32p_K0

    Reynolds
    SP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UlM1HKMkdg
    LP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDwx6PQalxY

    Takahashi
    SP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z08LWjkMDg8
    LP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB2aMBXSFpk

    Aaron
    SP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42JNX-KHGUs
    LP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNGqRzOZI0o

    Mura
    SP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx6mqlT8mQs
    LP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS0_oQB9R7k

    Joubert
    SP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gZsbtIIdkc
    LP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JVVvZproSs

    Brezina
    SP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHkDlWPwGww
    LP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qglHd7F9hI

    In my opinion:

    SP
    1. Patrick Chan: 5.9, 5.9
    2. Denis Ten: 5.8, 5.8
    3. Daisuke Takahashi: 5.5, 5.9
    4. Kevin Reynolds: 5.7, 5.6
    5. Brian Joubert: 5.6, 5.7
    6. Michal Brezina: 5.5, 5.6
    7. Javier Fernandez: 5.4, 5.7
    8. Max Aaron: 5.5, 5.5
    9. Yuzuru Hanyu: 5.0, 5.8
    10. Takahito Mura: 5.1, 5.5

    LP
    1. Denis Ten: 5.6, 5.8
    2. Yuzuru Hanyu: 5.7, 5.7
    3. Javier Fernandez: 5.5, 5.7
    4. Brian Joubert: 5.5, 5.6
    5. Max Aaron: 5.6, 5.5
    6. Daisuke Takahashi: 5.3, 5.7
    7. Kevin Reynolds: 5.4, 5.6
    8. Takahito Mura: 5.5, 5.5
    9. Patrick Chan: 5.2, 5.7
    10. Michal Brezina: 5.1, 5.5

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady82 View Post
    With all the discussion on how the 2013 men's competition should be placed, how would you score the skaters under 6.0? I will rank the top 10 finishers in the SP and LP.

    Here are individual performances:
    Chan
    SP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x3d6Y5nSYs
    LP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toCdAb3ucCs

    Ten
    SP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXqbfzY5HHk
    LP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ0iGuaRAm4

    Fernandez
    SP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImBgKOBSvAo
    LP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHEMhLbVWM0

    Hanyu
    SP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ2vbfHgyZs
    LP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A2Fk32p_K0

    Reynolds
    SP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UlM1HKMkdg
    LP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDwx6PQalxY

    Takahashi
    SP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z08LWjkMDg8
    LP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB2aMBXSFpk

    Aaron
    SP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42JNX-KHGUs
    LP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNGqRzOZI0o

    Mura
    SP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx6mqlT8mQs
    LP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS0_oQB9R7k

    Joubert
    SP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gZsbtIIdkc
    LP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JVVvZproSs

    Brezina
    SP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHkDlWPwGww
    LP-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qglHd7F9hI

    In my opinion:

    SP
    1. Patrick Chan: 5.9, 5.9
    2. Denis Ten: 5.8, 5.8
    3. Daisuke Takahashi: 5.5, 5.9
    4. Kevin Reynolds: 5.7, 5.6
    5. Brian Joubert: 5.6, 5.7
    6. Michal Brezina: 5.5, 5.6
    7. Javier Fernandez: 5.4, 5.7
    8. Max Aaron: 5.5, 5.5
    9. Yuzuru Hanyu: 5.0, 5.8
    10. Takahito Mura: 5.1, 5.5

    LP
    1. Denis Ten: 5.6, 5.8
    2. Yuzuru Hanyu: 5.7, 5.7
    3. Javier Fernandez: 5.5, 5.7
    4. Brian Joubert: 5.5, 5.6
    5. Max Aaron: 5.6, 5.5
    6. Daisuke Takahashi: 5.3, 5.7
    7. Kevin Reynolds: 5.4, 5.6
    8. Takahito Mura: 5.5, 5.5
    9. Patrick Chan: 5.2, 5.7
    10. Michal Brezina: 5.1, 5.5
    Mostly good but you definitely overmarked and overplaced Hanyu in the LP, Reynolds in the LP and Brezina in the LP. The technical score of Hanyu vs say Fernandez, and the presentation scores in the LP for Reynolds and Brezina both are too high. 9th place in the long for Chan is about right though.

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    Yay. Another thread created just to crap on Patrick's "undeserving" win. Think the 6.0 system was a travesty. And I am so glad it is gone. I agree Patrick probably shouldn't have won but i also don't think he was owned in the LP by all these skaters. I still would have placed him second and at the least third over-all.

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    Denis Ten would not even be on the podium in 6.0 because of the country he represents.

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    What is the skating order? and did you watch them in that order because that is a factor when determining scores and leaving room!

  6. #6
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    Patrick Chan should have come in 24th. Not sure why this thread was even started, this fact is so plainly obvious.
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Patrick Chan should have come in 24th. Not sure why this thread was even started, this fact is so plainly obvious.
    I think you're being generous - he shouldn't have been allowed to skate in the FS. OBVIOUSLY!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rayhaneh View Post
    I think you're being generous - he shouldn't have been allowed to skate in the FS. OBVIOUSLY!
    Tomas Verner shouldn't have been allowed to skate in the FS. It would have been a mercy.

    Joubert would have finished higher than he did and Chan likely lower. And that's as specific as I am willing to be

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater91 View Post
    What is the skating order? and did you watch them in that order because that is a factor when determining scores and leaving room!
    Absolutely.

    The actual scores under 6.0 are just placeholders to keep track of the rankings. So the specific numbers depend very much on the skate order.

    I never liked to "score" or practice judge competitions under 6.0 when I already knew the results -- especially if I already was aware of other people's opinions about the results -- because 6.0 judging is basically about deciding what order to rank the skaters.

    I would be too influenced by desires to agree or disagree with the official panel, or with specific critics, to prove someone right or wrong. I find myself second guessing my own reactions instead of just reacting honestly as I could if the outcome was unknown.

    For fun and practice, I can go analyze a competition by IJS and assign scores honestly even if I already know the overall results, as long as I haven't already studied the protocols. If I have, then the same second-guessing process comes into play.

    After the fact, I think it's a reasonable question to ask "How would you have ranked the skaters?" -- and preferably to ask for/offer reasons for those rankings. The numbers themselves are not very interesting because they don't give us much in the way of reasons. But hey, if you want to explain your reasons and also provide numbers to anchor those thought processes numerically, I'd be interested to read those thought processes.

    Even with IJS, it's still more interesting to explain reasons than just to list our numbers. Especially the PCS. As a reader, it's usually easy enough to read a list of GOEs, look at the actual elements, and most of the time know exactly why a poster (or real judge) gave most of those scores.

  10. #10
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    Plus, I guess everybody knows that under 6.0, the first after SP didn't finish 9th of the LP, except after a disaster (Nancy Kerrigan 1993 for example). It's not the case for Patrick Chan with a quad/triple and a quad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Patrick Chan should have come in 24th. Not sure why this thread was even started, this fact is so plainly obvious.


    Unfortunately, there is no way any of us can factually prove that a skater we don't particularly like would have placed lower or that a skater we particularly love would have placed higher at the 2013 Worlds if the judges had used the 6.0 system. Or that a certain skater would have finished off the podium because he doesn't have a powerful federation behind him.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Patrick Chan should have come in 24th. Not sure why this thread was even started, this fact is so plainly obvious.
    24th? You are too harsh on Chan. I would place him 22nd, two places slightly better your placing, PeterG. I am a cleverer, better and wiser.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    Chan...I would place him 22nd, two places slightly better your placing, PeterG.
    You Kanadians.....
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

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    Chan would have placed 1st in both programs under 6.0 and won gold more easily than he did under COP. Ten would probably still have placed 2nd in both programs. Hanyu would have beaten Fernandez since he made less mistakes, even though Fernandez came out ahead under COP with higher GOE, PCS, and base value than a slightly sluggish Hanyu who also had mistakes. Joubert might have placed higher under 6.0.

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