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  1. #21

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    I think S/S will come out strong this year after disappointment last season. I think she didn't fully recovery from her illness at Skate Canada. They still looked slow and a bit laboured at Worlds. I hope the battle between V/T and S/S is one to make us all sit on the edge of our seats this season So much better for the sport and the fans when there is a battle for gold.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
    They won Worlds because they're good and because the competition wasn't that strong. V/T were their only real competition and V/T beat them easily this last season.
    By the same logic, V/T have only won Worlds when the competition was not strong (off-form S/S) and have lost multiple times to S/S.

    The odds of both pairs skating their best at the same major event strike me as slim.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
    I think they are doing exactly what they need to do for themselves. An OGM will open many doors for them and they are looking for what happens after February. Experimentation doesn't put points on the board and that is what is important for them. For a pairs team to reach OGM level in only 3 years is an extraordinary accomplishment even if both members were experienced skaters. They still had to learn to skate together. The amount of trust the female partner has to place on the male is difficult. Female pairs skaters are tiny but they have the heart of lions and Volosozhar is a lioness.
    My thoughts exactly. Once the Olympics are over, they have the rest of their lives to experiment, be original, etc. I am glad that they are focused on their goal of winning the OGM. It won't be easy; they are against some tough competition. Trankov is right when he says we can't afford to make any mistakes. There is a time to be original and creative, and it's not now.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    My thoughts exactly. Once the Olympics are over, they have the rest of their lives to experiment, be original, etc.
    Sadly, with the death of pro skating, that really doesn't happen anymore. They will end up skating in some shows with live musicians, recycling their moves into "new" programs, etc. Ironically, the choreography seems to be more experimental when skaters have celebrity partners or other unusual setups (like Averbukh's show where the Russian legends all switched partners). Pro programs were so much better when there were real World Pro events.

    I can understand if skaters try to be experimental, it doesn't work out in the scores, and then they go back to something traditional - at least they tried. It bugs that a team as talented as this has never even been given the incentive to try. They are good enough to be the next B&S, V&V, or M&D. The judges have been giving them the same or higher scores than people who actually have more transitions and more original choreography, so I don't blame them not for trying even though they now have a nice gap over the field.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    "EV: Were you disappointed he is not as he used to be when he was young?
    MT: At the age of 47 he is landing tripple jumps holding an umbrella. Except for the lack of hair nothing tells how old he really is. In many things Brawning is far better than our single skaters. The spins, the steps..."

    He was asked about Kurt Browning. I like his answer.

    Earlier in the interview, it sounded like they plan to retire after the 2014 Olympics and settle down in Sochi. I am surprised that they cannot find an apartment in Moscow. Is it lack of availability or affordability?
    I think availability. Limited availability of affordable housing. Overabundance of luxury apartments.

    You don't want to be unique too much and go for a non warhorse. Maybe the ghost or the aboriginal dances should have been no gos from the very beginning and were so obviously bad that there was strategy to their awfulness (ghost to make anything look better in the olympic season and aboriginal to go easy on max and not do any recognizable dance because max was injured) but what if they were genuinely believed to be unique and interesting?

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    Sadly, with the death of pro skating, that really doesn't happen anymore. They will end up skating in some shows with live musicians, recycling their moves into "new" programs, etc. Ironically, the choreography seems to be more experimental when skaters have celebrity partners or other unusual setups (like Averbukh's show where the Russian legends all switched partners). Pro programs were so much better when there were real World Pro events.

    I can understand if skaters try to be experimental, it doesn't work out in the scores, and then they go back to something traditional - at least they tried. It bugs that a team as talented as this has never even been given the incentive to try. They are good enough to be the next B&S, V&V, or M&D. The judges have been giving them the same or higher scores than people who actually have more transitions and more original choreography, so I don't blame them not for trying even though they now have a nice gap over the field.
    Pro skating is dead in the USA, but I believe in Russia and Europe they will have opportunities to experiment with different things.

    B&S were very creative in their Chaplin LP, but some judges did not like it, so for the Olympic season they had to choose a more traditional music - Meditation from Thais. You do what you have to do to win the OGM. That's what V&T are doing. The OGM program is not to please the fans, but to please the judges, and they have to feel comfortable with the program. Why rock the boat at the most inopportune time? It took them a couple of years just to be able to skate together as a pair, so it's really been just one year of 'comfort' for them.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    You don't want to be unique too much and go for a non warhorse. Maybe the ghost or the aboriginal dances should have been no gos from the very beginning and were so obviously bad that there was strategy to their awfulness (ghost to make anything look better in the olympic season and aboriginal to go easy on max and not do any recognizable dance because max was injured) but what if they were genuinely believed to be unique and interesting?
    I don't buy the "must have overused music to win" approach. V/M won an OGM skating to Mahler, D/W had the Bollywood OD, Yuna Kim skated to a Gershwin concerto, Mao to Bells of Moscow; S/Z's SP was Who Wants To Live Forever. Pang and Tong's SP that season was The Pearl Fishers and their LP (which they won in Vancouver) The Impossible Dream. All these skaters won Olympic gold or silver with at least one program that was not super overused music (though some of them did opt for more familiar fare in the other program). Throw in the bronze medalists and you have Eye by COBA (Takahashi), The Double Life of Veronique (DomShabs) and Out of Africa (S/S). A bit further back, Jeff Buttle won Worlds skating to Ararat and an Olympic medal skating the Tribute to Glenn Gould program. More recently, Carolina Kostner won Worlds with Shostakovich and a Mozart concerto I don't recall being used in skating before.

    Yes, skating to something familiar can be easier, but this doesn't mean it's the only way. FWIW, V/T did try to do something different with their SP a couple of seasons ago, but for the most part they have been skating run of the mill programs when they are capable of so much more.
    Last edited by Zemgirl; 07-08-2013 at 07:32 PM.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    I don't buy the "must have overused music to win" approach. V/M won an OGM skating to Mahler, D/W had the Bollywood OD, Yuna Kim skated to a Gershwin concerto, Mao to Bells of Moscow; S/Z's SP was Who Wants To Live Forever. Pang and Tong's SP that season was The Pearl Fishers and their LP (which they won in Vancouver) The Impossible Dream. All these skaters won Olympic gold or silver with at least one program that was not super overused music (though some of them did opt for more familiar fare in the other program). Throw in the bronze medalists and you have Eye by COBA (Takahashi), The Double Life of Veronique (DomShabs) and Out of Africa (S/S). A bit forever back, Jeff Buttle won Worlds skating to Ararat and an Olympic medal skating the Tribute to Glenn Gould program. Carolina Kostner won Worlds with Shostakovich and a Mozart concerto I don't recall being used in skating before.

    Yes, skating to something familiar can be easier, but this doesn't mean it's the only way. FWIW, V/T did try to do something different with their SP a couple of seasons ago, but for the most part they have been skating run of the mill programs when they are capable of so much more.
    Lots of good examples! Maybe not Mao with bells of Moscow though. Lost track of "too heavy" or "inappropriate" or "Ill fitting" statements. But she did get silver. War horses arent the only way but the risk is greater! Maybe they can afford the risk of new music but you don't want a total disaster! D/s did skate to double life but they also put some rfad in there and it became the rfad program to many.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Lots of good examples! Maybe not Mao with bells of Moscow though. Lost track of "too heavy" or "inappropriate" or "Ill fitting" statements. But she did get silver. War horses arent the only way but the risk is greater! Maybe they can afford the risk of new music but you don't want a total disaster! D/s did skate to double life but they also put some rfad in there and it became the rfad program to many.
    Very little of it was RfaD, so I don't really get why anyone would think of it as such. They really should have just stuck with the Double Life of Veronique; it's a beautiful score.

    Cappellini and Lanotte, OTOH, really did skate to RfaD, and did a surprisingly good job with it.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    B&S were very creative in their Chaplin LP, but some judges did not like it, so for the Olympic season they had to choose a more traditional music - Meditation from Thais.
    1. "Like" should not be the primary driver for judging programs, and it shouldn't be acceptable for judges at the highest level.
    2. Those judges were fools.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    1. "Like" should not be the primary driver for judging programs, and it shouldn't be acceptable for judges at the highest level.
    2. Those judges were fools.
    It shouldn't be, but it was. Actually it was a mixed reaction. However, for the Olympics they could not take that chance - that's my interpretation of it. The judges told them that they wanted them to skate to classical music. Even though B&S wanted to skate their beloved Chaplin(Citylights) program, they had to skate to classical. It turned out beautiful, but if they had a choice, they would have been original/creative. It depends on the goal.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    The Firebird?
    I'd reckon a good guess since Tanya's Twitter handle is @tati_Firebird https://twitter.com/tati_firebird and her instagram is @fire_bird http://instagram.com/fire_bird/#. I actually don't think Firebird would be horrible on them. I'm afraid it will be a Rach warhorse... seem to recall Max in the past talking about how much he adores and respects Rachmaninoff. I love both teams but really want to see S/S pull off gold with something really innovative!

  13. #33

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    I love Rachmaninoff's music, and many performances skated to his music, but it is not a good competition music. V&T will not win the OGM if they skate to Rach.....history is against it. I don't care for the Firebird music, but I hope they skate to that, and not to Rach.

  14. #34
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    Firebird could be a gorgeous Pairs program, more than for any other discipline, IMO: although in the ballet the Berceuse is a solo for Firebird, it would be lovely for Pairs. There are different musical versions -- Stravinsky was constantly revising so that he could always get royalties -- but I wouldn't expect much from Morozov.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BreakfastClub View Post
    I'd reckon a good guess since Tanya's Twitter handle is @tati_Firebird https://twitter.com/tati_firebird and her instagram is @fire_bird http://instagram.com/fire_bird/#. I actually don't think Firebird would be horrible on them.
    I think it has nothing to do with the new season and programs. Volosozhar's Twitter handle and Instagram has been Firebird from the beginning (she didn't open them this year), and most likely has to do with her last name - "firebird" is "zharptica" in Russian ("zhar" means "heat/fire/flame" among other things). And "voloso" stems from the word "volosi" which means "hair". So, her last name can be loosely translated as something like "flaming/fiery hair", and she has obviously linked it to the word "zharptica"/"firebird". Of course, that doesn't mean that their LP can't be Firebird. Probably Volosozhar would want to skate to it exactly because of that connection. I just wanted to say that her Twitter and Instagram names are not meant as a specific hint.
    Last edited by lauravvv; 07-09-2013 at 12:24 AM.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    B&S were very creative in their Chaplin LP, but some judges did not like it, so for the Olympic season they had to choose a more traditional music - Meditation from Thais.
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    1. "Like" should not be the primary driver for judging programs, and it shouldn't be acceptable for judges at the highest level.
    2. Those judges were fools.
    In The Second Mark, Berezhnaya is quoted as saying that the judges didn't get Chaplin and prefer to be given "love carrots", whatever that means...

    Quote Originally Posted by BreakfastClub View Post
    I'd reckon a good guess since Tanya's Twitter handle is @tati_Firebird https://twitter.com/tati_firebird and her instagram is @fire_bird http://instagram.com/fire_bird/#. I actually don't think Firebird would be horrible on them. I'm afraid it will be a Rach warhorse... seem to recall Max in the past talking about how much he adores and respects Rachmaninoff. I love both teams but really want to see S/S pull off gold with something really innovative!
    As noted by lauravvv, it's been that way for a long time, so it might not mean anything. Rach warhorse = Rach 2? Unfortunately, I can so see that happening...

    We both want the same thing for S/S

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    In The Second Mark, Berezhnaya is quoted as saying that the judges didn't get Chaplin and prefer to be given "love carrots", whatever that means...
    A variation on the theme of Lyrical Snot?

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    A variation on the theme of Lyrical Snot?
    I suspect so, though it is not as vivid an image

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    In The Second Mark, Berezhnaya is quoted as saying that the judges didn't get Chaplin and prefer to be given "love carrots", whatever that means...
    LOL it took me a few minutes to understand what "love carrots" means. In Russian it's "любовь-морковь" [l'ubof' - markof'], literally "love-carrots", but nothing to do with carrots, of course; just a slang for "love" and "being in love", so she meant "lyrical snot", yes.

    What is "The Second Mark"?

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by reut View Post
    LOL it took me a few minutes to understand what "love carrots" means. In Russian it's "любовь-морковь" [l'ubof' - markof'], literally "love-carrots", but nothing to do with carrots, of course; just a slang for "love" and "being in love", so she meant "lyrical snot", yes.

    What is "The Second Mark"?
    Thanks for the explanation!

    The Second Mark is a book about the pairs event at SLC, focusing mostly on the childhood and careers of the medalists leading up to 2002.

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