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    Debi Thomas- would she have achieved more if she had held out on med school til 1989

    Looking back at the incredible Debi Thomas, who managed to combine a medical education, a medical career, elite level skating at the highest level, all at once, would she have achieved more had she begun her undergraduate degree in 1989 rather than 1986. She could have focused completely on skating, and she certainly had the talent to win all of the 86 worlds, 87 worlds, 88 Olympics, and 88 worlds. She did not win the latter 3 events due to unfortunate errors, which might have come from lack of preparation or readiness due to balancing both school and skating.

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    In the aggregate, Debbie achieved so much it is hard to take anything from her, especially given the amateur status restrictions in the 80s. There was simply no secure future for her if she did not choose to go to Stanford.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 07-20-2014 at 08:52 PM.

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    No. Next question.

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    Didn't she go on record saying she took a year off from school to concentrate on the 1987-1988 season and felt that that was a big mistake?
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Didn't she go on record saying she took a year off from school to concentrate on the 1987-1988 season and felt that that was a big mistake?
    I think so. I think she said she used her time better when her schedule was more full, and having more free time did not mean she could do more training or get more out of her training.

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    I think the opposite is true. Had she not taken a year off school in the most important season of her career, she would have won both the 88 worlds and 88 Olympics, and been considered one of the best skaters of all time today, and be right up with Witt (or ahead, considering her superior basics and athleticsm) as the best of her era. Balancing school and skating worked fine for her all along until then. She didnt lose worlds and Nationals in 87 due to school. She lost due to an awful and painful injury, and an ill timed mistake in her short program at worlds.

    She also was the victim of poor judging in Calgary. She should have had a huge lead going into the long program and all but had the gold sewn up. She should have won figures in Calgary over Ivanova whose figures were not up to her usual quality. She should have won the short program in Calgary, or at worst placed 2nd behind one of Kadavy or Ito. Witt probably should have been about 7th in figures, and her short program should have been 6th behind Thomas, Ito, Kadavy, Manley, and Trenary. Since she was Witt she ended up winning the short program of course (snickers). With such a lead she would have probably been relaxed and done a great long program to easily win gold. The ridiculous short program loss to Witt probably put some doubts in her mind. With the proper lead she might have beaten Witt overall even with the long program she skated, but maybe not Manley. Given the performances as they all played out Manley should have won gold overall. Considering Witt's figures with politics removed were probably barely better than Ito's, Ito should have beaten her as well.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX_cSCm115U

    Notice how upset her coach is about her losing the short program to Witt. The knowledgable Calgary crowd is very upset as well, as they know that was a farce result.

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    She would have won in Calgary if her crazy coach didn't put so much pressure on her in the whole leadup and during the Games. Isnt that part of a reason they formed a rift before worlds, and cut off all contact thereafter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sylvestercat View Post
    The knowledgable Calgary crowd is very upset as well, as they know that was a farce result.
    I don't know about the Calgary audience, but Olympic audiences IME are not always "knowledgeable". There tend to be a lot of people who are there because they want to be at the Olympics, and not necessarily because they know a lot, or even much, about the particular event they're watching.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

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    Skating crowds often aren't that knowledgable but the Calgary crowds sure were. They gave Boitano a thunderous ovation for his skate despite badly wanting Orser to win. Nor did they boo Orser's 2nd place result as they knew it was justified. They also knew Ito's presentations marks in the free skate were a joke, and their muted applause to Witt's performances and marks in both programs was in line with her skating those nights. They also knew Debi skated a much better short program than Katarina Witt, and that the often crooked judges were simply using the subjective artistry marks (where they probably wrote down some nonsense like they didn't like Debi not wearing a skirt, and skating to unfeminine music) to gift Witt the short program victory, and help her make ground back up since like always she was behind Debi in figures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Skating crowds often aren't that knowledgable but the Calgary crowds sure were. They gave Boitano a thunderous ovation for his skate despite badly wanting Orser to win. Nor did they boo Orser's 2nd place result as they knew it was justified. They also knew Ito's presentations marks in the free skate were a joke, and their muted applause to Witt's performances and marks in both programs was in line with her skating those nights. They also knew Debi skated a much better short program than Katarina Witt, and that the often crooked judges were simply using the subjective artistry marks (where they probably wrote down some nonsense like they didn't like Debi not wearing a skirt, and skating to unfeminine music) to gift Witt the short program victory, and help her make ground back up since like always she was behind Debi in figures.
    I'm not sure you could be any more full of sh*t if you tried.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    I'm not sure you could be any more full of sh*t if you tried.
    You must be speaking of yourself, and indeed that would apply to anything I have ever read from you. I cant believe you aren't on my ignore list yet, I must have held off for comedic value, but that's where you go now. Goodbye and good riddance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    You must be speaking of yourself, and indeed that would apply to anything I have ever read from you. I cant believe you aren't on my ignore list yet, I must have held off for comedic value, but that's where you go now. Goodbye and good riddance.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

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    Quote Originally Posted by sylvestercat View Post
    I think the opposite is true. Had she not taken a year off school in the most important season of her career, she would have won both the 88 worlds and 88 Olympics, and been considered one of the best skaters of all time today, and be right up with Witt (or ahead, considering her superior basics and athleticsm) as the best of her era. Balancing school and skating worked fine for her all along until then. She didnt lose worlds and Nationals in 87 due to school. She lost due to an awful and painful injury, and an ill timed mistake in her short program at worlds.

    She also was the victim of poor judging in Calgary. She should have had a huge lead going into the long program and all but had the gold sewn up. She should have won figures in Calgary over Ivanova whose figures were not up to her usual quality. She should have won the short program in Calgary, or at worst placed 2nd behind one of Kadavy or Ito. Witt probably should have been about 7th in figures, and her short program should have been 6th behind Thomas, Ito, Kadavy, Manley, and Trenary. Since she was Witt she ended up winning the short program of course (snickers). With such a lead she would have probably been relaxed and done a great long program to easily win gold. The ridiculous short program loss to Witt probably put some doubts in her mind. With the proper lead she might have beaten Witt overall even with the long program she skated, but maybe not Manley. Given the performances as they all played out Manley should have won gold overall. Considering Witt's figures with politics removed were probably barely better than Ito's, Ito should have beaten her as well.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX_cSCm115U

    Notice how upset her coach is about her losing the short program to Witt. The knowledgable Calgary crowd is very upset as well, as they know that was a farce result.
    Winning the Olympics and 88 Worlds wouldn't have made Thomas one of the best skaters ever. With out without those gold medals, she wasn't one of the best ever. Just no.

    If any American was robbed, it was Kadavy in the short.

    I feel the same way about Thomas as a person as I did about Kerrigan. I liked them but I don't know why I liked them. They both came off as whiners who loved to blame others for subpar performances instead of looking in the mirror. Either woman would have been a nightmare to coach. Neither woman had the mental toughness to win more than an occasional championship, let alone the Olympics. Well Kerrigan was robbed in '94 but other than that one competition, she was a a weak competitor.

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    I sort of agree with your Thomas and Kerrigan comparision but Thomas was still a much bigger force in the sport than Nancy IMO. She was part of THE rivalry in womens skating for 3 years, and a big threat to win any event she was in those 3 years. Kerrigan only became a gold contender after Yamaguchi and Ito were gone, and Harding became a total non factor. Kind of a stop gap in a bizarre transition era with an Olympics 2 years out, kind of like Baiul and Bonaly (Baiul most of all) were as well.

    Personality wise they are a lot alike. Their skating styles are somewhat too. As competitors they are alike also. They don't handle pressure of being a favorite well, but seem to thive when they have something to prove.

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    That's a very fair analysis of the two, JJ. I agree with all of it.

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    Given that Thomas is an orthopedic surgeon, she can not be measured based solely on her accomplishments on the ice. The prerequisites to medical school alone are challenging, but then she learned how to put a living human body together like a master carpenter works with wood. Furthermore, she is capable of commanding a team of medical professionals to support her in her critical decisions and skilled procedures.

    ... so who gives a flying f**k that she is only an Olympic Bronze Medalist, World Champion, and National Champion. This lady is mentally tough and smart

    ... she makes almost every skater look as dumb as a rock. Yamaguchi, the poster child for the perfect Olympian, dreamed of just getting a bachelor's degree but it never happened. Sarah Hughes went to Yale, but she is not a doctor of any kind, much less a physician. The only skaters that ever accomplishe'd as much as Thomas, in general, were the skaters from the Golden Era of US Skating (Post-WW II to 1961).

    To sum it up, Thomas is better than Kerrigan and was probably not a nightmare to coach.

    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    I feel the same way about Thomas as a person as I did about Kerrigan. I liked them but I don't know why I liked them. They both came off as whiners who loved to blame others for subpar performances instead of looking in the mirror. Either woman would have been a nightmare to coach. Neither woman had the mental toughness to win more than an occasional championship, let alone the Olympics. Well Kerrigan was robbed in '94 but other than that one competition, she was a a weak competitor.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 07-22-2014 at 06:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    To sum it up, Thomas is better than Kerrigan and was probably not a nightmare to coach.
    What a ridiculous statement. Thomas is better than Kerrigan because she is a doctor? Wow. What outdated decade are you living in?

    From all accounts, Kerrigan is a loving, hands on mom who has made them her children he top priority in life. That doesn't make her any less of a person than Thomas. Nor does the fact that Yamaguchi never got her bachelor's mean she is any less of a person either. What a snob attitude.

    And given that Thomas was referred to as a royal "pain in the ass" by her own castmates on a more relaxed skating environment than Stars on Ice, I can't even imagine what she was like under grueling training conditions. But hey, she's a doctor so she's better than any other skater, or person for that matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    What a ridiculous statement. Thomas is better than Kerrigan because she is a doctor? Wow. What outdated decade are you living in?

    From all accounts, Kerrigan is a loving, hands on mom who has made them her top priority in life. That doesn't make her any less than Thomas. Nor does the fact that Yamaguchi never got her bachelor's mean she is any less of a person either. What a snob attitude.
    You called them both whiners, so whatever.

    I can live with being called a snob by you. That doesn't seem like something that would take much doing, much less anything to be ashamed of

    Quote Originally Posted by fenway2 View Post
    I feel the same way about Thomas as a person as I did about Kerrigan. I liked them but I don't know why I liked them. They both came off as whiners who loved to blame others for subpar performances instead of looking in the mirror. Either woman would have been a nightmare to coach. Neither woman had the mental toughness to win more than an occasional championship, let alone the Olympics. Well Kerrigan was robbed in '94 but other than that one competition, she was a a weak competitor.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 07-22-2014 at 04:36 AM.

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    Um, newsflash. You can be a whiner and still have other good qualities. Is that honestly so difficult for you to understand?

    How sad that you equate worth with professions. I've met some real asshole doctors. Hell, there have been doctors that have murdered people. If you were on the jury, you'd probably let them off the hook because...they're doctors after all.

    Still shaking my head at your original assertion. I've read some crazy statements online but your's might take the cake.
    Last edited by fenway2; 07-22-2014 at 02:50 PM.

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    Oh, I'm pretty egalitarian. I think Paris Hilton, a couch potato with a web cam, and Kim Kardashian are all equal.

    You do realize that this thread is about achievement and that Olympic eligible figure skating, in general, is about ranked competition, that is saying one is better than another. Lots of things in life are ranked, but it is not a moral judgement.

    I have my suspicions why you downplay Thomas's accomplishments, and find it quite sad. Thomas worked very hard for decades, and you treat it like it is nothing.

    1 year of Calculus
    1 year of Physics
    1 year of Inorganic Chemistry
    1 year of Organic Chemistry
    1 year of Cell Biology
    50 more college units just to get a bachelor's degree
    MCATs ... then med school ... residency ... board certification ...

    ... she could have just made money doing the same thing she had done since she was six.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 07-22-2014 at 06:15 AM.

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