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  1. #61
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    43 hours doesn't sound like a lot and the 777 sounds like a complex plane to fly. There was an attempt to abort the landing so they knew something was wrong before they touched down.

    Has anyone ever been in aborted landings? I have in SFO, the plane coming almost touched down and then took off at the last second to make a few circles over the Bay Area and attempt again. I was sweating bullets and there was nary a peep from captain or crew to explain the situation.
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    I haven't asked what she saw or asked her Mom yet. I know they didn't take off and returned to the gate after a while. That was her plane that was in the video. I heard that those pilots had a front row seat to the whole thing. The NTSB will be talking to them. They would have heard something and saw something.
    None of the planes are alike. Weight, size, cockpits are all different and require different skills. I have another friend at Delta (he's a pilot and flies overseas) and we had a talk about weather he would be able to fly another plane if something happened to the pilot. He said he would be able to, but would need a lot of help from the ground. If your used to flying a 747, that is a very heavy plane and the weight is a lot different then the 737. So speed is different, rudders and flaps are all, are set differently. The speed and decent are different. That's why the pilots only fly one type of plane and are certified on one plane.
    I've had some crazy experiences on planes before. I used to fly a lot. Once we had an aborted landing, but it wasn't that close to the ground. That was freaky, then there was the time I was flying in from ORD to DTW and we dropped a few thousand feet quickly due to being to close to another plane. Then flying into Midway in Chicago is always fun, since they drop so fast if your coming from the east. One time we had the air mask drop.
    I'm just praying the ones that are in critical come though. They are saying the injuries have to do with burns, brain injuries and spinal.

  3. #63

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    I have flown on all kinds of planes, from tiny two seaters (including pilot) to big international flights with 600+ passengers, but as a passenger I have not experienced dangerous situations- touch wood. Turbulence on international flights is very common and I don't consider that a dangerous situation (although in a way it is). If I ever experience one, I may become afraid of flying.

    The survivor who was interviewed on CNN (Eugene Rah?) said that when he saw the water, he knew the plane was not going to be able to land- he had flown that route 170+ times. He was in business class and he said that he had a shoulder strap (I don't recall one when I flew business class but it was many years ago; they must have added that to business class) which saved his head from hitting the ceiling.

    IMO it's too early to call it a pilot error since all the facts have not come in. What if the plane had a problem and it could not reach the needed speed or just lost the speed suddenly? I am not familiar with how aeroplanes work, and I would rather wait for the full report by the NTSB. I am still wondering if the pilots have been interviewed by the investigators (unless they are in critical condition in the hospital)? I do recall hearing Saturday night that since this was an international flight, they are being more sensitive and not jumping into the investigation (I am paraphrasing). May be that's what is happening.

  4. #64
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    Returned to SFO earlier tonight on 28R and it was certainly eerie seeing the downed plane illuminated off to the side of the adjacent parallel runway (28L), looking like a wrinkled, used tube of toothpaste (and not standing tall and proud, high above the ground, like it would if it still had its landing gear).

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    43 hours doesn't sound like a lot and the 777 sounds like a complex plane to fly. There was an attempt to abort the landing so they knew something was wrong before they touched down.

    Has anyone ever been in aborted landings? I have in SFO, the plane coming almost touched down and then took off at the last second to make a few circles over the Bay Area and attempt again. I was sweating bullets and there was nary a peep from captain or crew to explain the situation.
    Many pilots don't get any hours on a plane type before they're deemed captain of one. They're always partnered with a first officer who has experience, as was the case here. (The captain doesn't always get to fly either.)

    When you add a new plane to the fleet, nobody has any hours on it. Although I presume that it would be added to training simulators so they would get an idea of what it would be like sitting in the cockpit without experimenting on an actual plane.

    The plane gave the "imminent stall" warning 4 seconds before impact. That's not enough time to really do anything at that point. It's sounding more and more like they left something on auto that they shouldn't have, and didn't notice until it was too late.

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    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/asian...xperience-777s

    ASIANA ATTENDANT DESCRIBES DRAMATIC EVACUATION
    By JACK CHANG and YOUKYUNG LEE
    — Jul. 8 8:38 AM EDT

    Excerpt:

    SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — The evacuation of Asiana Flight 214 began badly. Even before the mangled jetliner began filling with smoke, two evacuation slides on the doors inflated inside the cabin instead of outside, pinning two flight attendants to the floor.

    Cabin manager Lee Yoon-hye, apparently the last person to leave the burning plane, said crew members deflated the slides with axes to rescue their colleagues, one of whom seemed to be choking beneath the weight of a slide.

    Lee on Sunday described several dramatic moments in the remarkable evacuation that saved 305 of the 307 people on the plane that crashed Saturday while landing in San Francisco.

    One flight attendant put a scared elementary schoolboy on her back and slid down a slide, said Lee, in the first comments by a crew member since the crash of the Boeing 777. A pilot helped another injured flight attendant off the plane after the passengers escaped. Lee herself worked to put out fires and usher passengers to safety despite a broken tailbone that kept her standing throughout a news briefing with mostly South Korean reporters at a San Francisco hotel. She said she didn't know how badly she was hurt until a doctor at a San Francisco hospital later treated her.

    It was still unclear whether the pilot's inexperience with the aircraft and airport played a role, and officials were also investigating whether the airport's or plane's equipment could have malfunctioned.
    EDIT:

    Incredible photo of a plane landing at SFO last night with Asiana 214 in the background (via @nancygay): https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOqHvnyCMAAF07e.jpg

    Candlelight vigil at the school attended by two Chinese girls who died in Asiana 214 crash
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOp8sVkCIAM4KqF.jpg
    Last edited by dardar1126; 07-08-2013 at 04:45 PM.

  7. #67
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    So many articles are crediting the flight attendants for doing everything possible to help people exit, including carrying some of them on their backs to the exits. I'm sure their calm and professionalism helped minimize the injuries and deaths from the accident.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garden Kitty View Post
    So many articles are crediting the flight attendants for doing everything possible to help people exit, including carrying some of them on their backs to the exits. I'm sure their calm and professionalism helped minimize the injuries and deaths from the accident.
    ^^THIS!^^

    One passenger said that even though the flight attendant he saw was obviously upset and had tears streaming down her face, she remained very professional, efficient and relatively calm in getting her passengers to safety.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garden Kitty View Post
    So many articles are crediting the flight attendants for doing everything possible to help people exit, including carrying some of them on their backs to the exits. I'm sure their calm and professionalism helped minimize the injuries and deaths from the accident.
    This was almost a miraculous feat to get 300 passengers off the plane in such a short time (1.5 minutes? or even less?) when you consider how long it takes to deplane under normal circumstances. The flight attendants deserve some kind of an award for this heroic deed.

    ETA: Just read this story on msnbc.com, about flight attendant Ms.Lee who helped many passengers to get off. She was the last to deplane.

    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...lt-a-bang?lite
    Last edited by Vash01; 07-08-2013 at 06:58 PM.

  10. #70
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    Long read:

    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/offic...-flew-too-slow

    SLOW LANDING SPEED OF SAN FRANCISCO JET PROBED
    By JASON DEAREN and JOAN LOWY
    — Jul. 8 9:14 AM EDT

    Excerpt:

    SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Investigators have determined that Asiana Airlines Flight 214 was traveling "significantly below" the target speed during its approach and that the crew tried to abort the landing just before it smashed onto the runway. What they don't yet know is whether the pilot's inexperience with the type of aircraft and at San Francisco's airport played a role.

    A day after the jetliner crash landed in San Francisco, killing two people and sending more than 180 to hospitals, officials said Sunday that the probe was also focusing on whether the airport or plane's equipment also could have malfunctioned.

    The South Korea government announced Monday that officials will inspect engines and landing equipment on all Boeing 777 planes owned by Asiana and Korean Air, the national carrier.

    Also Sunday, San Mateo County Coroner Robert Foucrault said he was investigating whether one of the two teenage passengers killed actually survived the crash but was run over by a rescue vehicle rushing to aid victims fleeing the burning aircraft. Remarkably, 305 of 307 passengers and crew survived the crash and more than a third didn't even require hospitalization. Only a small number were critically injured.

    Investigators said that the weather was unusually fair for foggy San Francisco. The winds were mild, too. During the descent, with their throttles set to idle, the pilots never discussed having any problems with the plane or its positioning until it was too late.

    Seven seconds before the Boeing 777 struck down, a member of the flight crew made a call to increase the jet's lagging speed, National Transportation Safety Board chief Deborah Hersman said at a briefing based on the plane's cockpit and flight data recorders. Three seconds later came a warning that the plane was about to stall.

    Two-and-a-half seconds later, the crew attempted to abort the landing and go back up for another try. The air traffic controller guiding the plane heard the crash that followed almost instantly, Hersman said.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by dardar1126 View Post
    Long read:

    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/offic...-flew-too-slow

    SLOW LANDING SPEED OF SAN FRANCISCO JET PROBED
    By JASON DEAREN and JOAN LOWY
    — Jul. 8 9:14 AM EDT
    The thought has crossed my mind that its too slow approach speed, which may have been a key factor in the plane not reaching the runway and crashing, may also have been a factor in minimizing the loss of life. Of course, if the landing approach had been correct and the touch down normal, no one would have died or been injured, but once the plane's tail clipped the retaining wall, the slower speed may have kept the plane from cartwheeling completely over or disintegrating more on impact.

    As others have already posted, I am amazed (and grateful) that the plane was evacuated so quickly -- major credit to the flight attendants for their quick (and heroic) action in getting everyone out before the fire could cause even more casualties.
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  12. #72
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    http://www.9news.com/news/article/34...tic-evacuation

    Asiana attendant describes dramatic evacuation
    10:42 AM, Jul 8, 2013

    Excerpt:

    SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - The evacuation of Asiana Flight 214 began badly. Even before the mangled jetliner began filling with smoke, two evacuation slides on the doors inflated inside the cabin instead of outside, pinning two flight attendants to the floor.

    Cabin manager Lee Yoon-hye, apparently the last person to leave the burning plane, said crew members deflated the slides with axes to rescue their colleagues, one of whom seemed to be choking beneath the weight of a slide.

    Lee on Sunday described several dramatic moments in the remarkable evacuation that saved 305 of the 307 people on the plane that crashed Saturday while landing in San Francisco.

    One flight attendant put a scared elementary schoolboy on her back and slid down a slide, said Lee, in the first comments by a crew member since the crash of the Boeing 777. A pilot helped another injured flight attendant off the plane after the passengers escaped. Lee herself worked to put out fires and usher passengers to safety despite a broken tailbone that kept her standing throughout a news briefing with mostly South Korean reporters at a San Francisco hotel. She said she didn't know how badly she was hurt until a doctor at a San Francisco hospital later treated her.
    Last edited by dardar1126; 07-08-2013 at 08:02 PM.

  13. #73
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    I'm trying to figure out how emergency evacuation slides inflated inside the plane.
    3539 and counting.

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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    I'm trying to figure out how emergency evacuation slides inflated inside the plane.
    The door got damaged so that the slide was angled inside instead of outside?

    Goodness, that doesn't sound like a clean evacuation at all! So glad the flight attendants's training (and some creative quick thinking!) kicked in, and passengers took care of themselves as well by going out the back where there was now a giant hole. Training is SO important for incidents like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milanessa View Post
    I'm trying to figure out how emergency evacuation slides inflated inside the plane.
    Well, the slide must be stored inside the doors, so maybe the material of the door got damaged through impact and that's when the door inflated? You could, in theory, inflate an airbag in a car without an accident, so I'd think the doors maybe have a similar mechanism?

  16. #76
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    POLITICO Breaking News

    The Asiana Airlines jet was traveling 39 miles per hour below the target speed of 158 mph just a few seconds before it crashed at San Francisco International Airport, NTSB Chairwoman Debbie Hersman told reporters Monday.

    Hersman said the plane was traveling at 103 knots - or 118 mph - just three seconds before impact. It had sped up slightly to 106 knots at the time of impact, based on an initial review of flight data.

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    The 2 doa were 16 year old girls in their seats and ejected from the back of the airplane. This crew had been in the air 12 hours from Korea. The captain had 43 hours in the triple 7. My daughter needs 50 hours of dual instruction to get her learner's drivers permit. My husband is a pilot and flew into SFO yesterday. The debris field is still there, tail and all. Flying for these newer pilots is like playing a video game. ILS was disabled on this runway for maintenance. Visual landing conditions, except this pilot had never been to SFO except probably on a simulator. No one comes anymore from military or civilian backgrounds and can actually make an aircraft perform. For whomever said upthread it is the co-pilots duty to make sure the captain is safe YOU ARE WRONG. It happens every day but it is not in their job description. This is totally pilot error and error on the part of this airline's training protocols.
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    Also they are reporting that the pilot was a training pilot and there was a trainer capt in the cockpit along with another capt and co pilot. How can that many pilots get it wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatemommy View Post
    The 2 doa were 16 year old girls in their seats and ejected from the back of the airplane. This crew had been in the air 12 hours from Korea. The captain had 43 hours in the triple 7. My daughter needs 50 hours of dual instruction to get her learner's drivers permit. My husband is a pilot and flew into SFO yesterday. The debris field is still there, tail and all. Flying for these newer pilots is like playing a video game. ILS was disabled on this runway for maintenance. Visual landing conditions, except this pilot had never been to SFO except probably on a simulator. No one comes anymore from military or civilian backgrounds and can actually make an aircraft perform. For whomever said upthread it is the co-pilots duty to make sure the captain is safe YOU ARE WRONG. It happens every day but it is not in their job description. This is totally pilot error and error on the part of this airline's training protocols.
    It's not been determined yet that it was pilot error. Why was the speed lower than normal? Why did the plane stall? We don't know that. Let all the facts come out before you start assigning blame.

    Also you cannot compare your daughter's learners license with a licensed commercial pilot on a major airline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatemommy View Post
    The 2 doa were 16 year old girls in their seats and ejected from the back of the airplane. This crew had been in the air 12 hours from Korea. The captain had 43 hours in the triple 7. My daughter needs 50 hours of dual instruction to get her learner's drivers permit. My husband is a pilot and flew into SFO yesterday. The debris field is still there, tail and all. Flying for these newer pilots is like playing a video game. ILS was disabled on this runway for maintenance. Visual landing conditions, except this pilot had never been to SFO except probably on a simulator. No one comes anymore from military or civilian backgrounds and can actually make an aircraft perform. For whomever said upthread it is the co-pilots duty to make sure the captain is safe YOU ARE WRONG. It happens every day but it is not in their job description. This is totally pilot error and error on the part of this airline's training protocols.
    The pilot who was flying at the time of the crash landing had limited experience flying a 777, not limited experience as a pilot. How is he expected to gain experience flying a 777 if not by actually flying a 777? While he had not yet flown a 777 to SFO, he had flown that route as a 747 pilot and also had colleagues more familiar with the 777 with him (source 1, source 2). He was not unfamiliar with the airport and he did not treat the landing like a video game. His experience flying is a lot more extensive than your daughter's driving.

    In addition, the flight crew consisted of at least three more pilots, as is usually the case in long haul flights. And captains and first officers do, indeed, take turns both flying and handling other flight-related responsibilities (e.g. instrumentation, communications, checklists, etc.). Also, first officers may be more experienced flying a specific airliner than captains.

    Wherever you're getting your information, I would suggest finding another source.

    Quote Originally Posted by mysticchic View Post
    Also they are reporting that the pilot was a training pilot and there was a trainer capt in the cockpit along with another capt and co pilot. How can that many pilots get it wrong?
    Let's wait for the NTSB to figure out what went wrong. It may be that the crew did not know in time that something was wrong, whether through pilot error or because of technical issues, or a combination thereof. The NTSB investigators are very good at what they do and I am sure that they will eventually get to the bottom of this - but it may take time. It's probably best not to jump to conclusions as to the cause.

    Everyone who posted about the great job the cabin crew did is absolutely right, it must have been a very difficult situation to handle so efficiently and they are to be commended.

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