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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by dardar1126 View Post
    They said on ABC that the plane was probably traveling at about 150 mph when it hit the ground! I was once in a low-impact/low-speed collision and remember how jolted I was and how it felt to be slung into the seat belt so hard...I can't even imagine on that plane. And, of course, the overhead bins opened and luggage fell on to the passengers and into the exit aisles.

    It is a tribute to that flight crew that they got everyone off that plane!
    Then you remember more than I did! But, yeah, it gives that whole crash an entirely new dimension and makes you aware of how resistent the materials are that are used to build a plane!
    What I've heard on CNN is that the crew stayed on board until everyone was off the plane! I know it's their job but still, there's always a big gap between theory and real life so they certainly deserve praise!

    Quote Originally Posted by susan6 View Post
    Granted, the view out of the cockpit window should have pointed out the problem, but some pilots may prefer to fly by instrument readings.
    I've heard that pilots actually don't see that much out of their windows, at least the front windows, and I'm not sure they would have had time to check out the side windows.

    Quote Originally Posted by michiruwater View Post
    Wow, could the woman in this video sound any less sincere? She mostly just sounds excited that the guy near her happens to be filming it at the time...
    I thought so too! But that guy's "Lord have mercy" seemed so fitting in so many ways!

  2. #42

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    Just curious - with how so much is under surveillance nowadays is so many places - do they film landings and takeoffs at airports? Or surveillance of all the grounds at an airpot for security purposes. Seems like airports should be filming all takeoffs and landings. Seems like something, in some cases, would help decipher events.

  3. #43
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    The first photos were so horrifying...this didn't happen far from me. I'm thankful there weren't more killed.

    Rest in Peace.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballettmaus View Post
    That, and the planes coming in before that plane did manage to land just fine, so I find it somewhat, let's say for the lack of a better word, ridiculous, that they're investigating if that played a role in the crash.
    They have to investigate everything no matter how dumb. Otherwise, if they just assume what happened, it's not much of an investigation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    And of course, the flight crew includes more than one pilot, and presumably between them they have a fair bit of experience.
    There were 4 on this plane and they took turns flying and resting on a rotation schedule.

    Quote Originally Posted by dardar1126 View Post
    And, of course, the overhead bins opened and luggage fell on to the passengers and into the exit aisles.
    Yes, they mentioned that happened on the news. I forgot about that. I'm sure that was kind of scary too. And crazy.

    Another thing the rescue people talk about was driving up to the crash site only knowing it had been a "hard landing" but not much else and seeing the plane burning, but most of the passengers off the plane already and more pouring off in a fairly orderly fashion. So the flight crew did a really good job with the evacuation, it looks like.

    Oh and also they talked about how they do these regular drills to practice for situations like this and they had just done one. I don't remember exactly when but about a month ago? It was recent though. The rescue people said it was recent and all very fresh in their minds and how all the area hospitals and rescue units all participate.

    For those who don't know the area, SFO isn't actually IN San Francisco. The land belongs to the city but you have to actually exit SF and go through a few towns south of SF to get to it. So it makes sense that rescue efforts would involve South SF, San Mateo and San Bruno and Burlingame as those are actually all closer to the airport than SF is.

    Quote Originally Posted by michiruwater View Post
    Wow, could the woman in this video sound any less sincere? She mostly just sounds excited that the guy near her happens to be filming it at the time...
    Yeah, watching the evening news, there was a few of those too. I kind of can't blame them though. If you slip into "I"m involved in an exciting adventure" mode, it makes it all less traumatic.

    A few other things from the broadcast:

    They did some obligatory "travelers are being inconvenienced" stories. A couple of travelers are being told they can't leave SF until July 10th! Not sure what flights they are on and where they are trying to go.

    They sent some planes over to Oakland, which is expected. But they sent some International planes over there. Now, Oakland is an international airport. But apparently not on Saturday! So they had to send some employees from SFO to Oakland over there to process the International flights! That cracked me up a bit.

    They also sent planes to San Jose airport of course but the station I was watching didn't interview anyone there. I assume they do international flights on Saturdays and it all went smoothly there.

    For the most part, people were good sports about the delays. They were probably thinking "At least my plane didn't crash!" The ones having trouble getting out of SF were the most annoyed. Some of them were thinking about traveling back to their start point and going to their destinations from there as the flights actually worked out better! The rest were flying stand-by and hoping for the best.

    A few called and were told their flight had been canceled and there were no flights but came to the airport anyway. Honestly, I didn't feel all that sorry for them when they whine about how long they'd been there and how long they expected to be there. Dude, should have stayed home!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballettmaus View Post
    Then you remember more than I did! But, yeah, it gives that whole crash an entirely new dimension and makes you aware of how resistent the materials are that are used to build a plane!
    It all happened so fast! And I remember being unnaturally calm afterwards. I got out of the car, gathered my purse and tote bag...realized my glasses had been knocked off and had ended up on the floor of the backseat. The van that hit me shoved me into an SUV, and that driver and I chatted until the ambulance arrived. Then it was all neck brace, back board and transport to x-rays, etc. I'm claustrophobic, so one of the worst parts was being strapped down on that back board for what seemed like forever!

    In this plane crash they said that the sudden and violent impact probably snapped the spines of the two paralyzed patients.

    And exiting a plane is no picnic under the best of conditions...can only imagine trying to get out after a violent crash, luggage strewn everywhere, people crying, screaming, injured and bleeding!
    Last edited by dardar1126; 07-08-2013 at 12:26 AM.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dardar1126 View Post

    And exiting a plane is no picnic under the best of conditions...can only imagine trying to get out after a violent crash, luggage strewn everywhere, people crying, screaming, injured and bleeding!
    Not to mention the plane catching fire.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    They have to investigate everything no matter how dumb. Otherwise, if they just assume what happened, it's not much of an investigation.
    To me, mere mortal person, it just doesn't seem to make sense to investigate into that as a cause for an accident when nothing happened to any of the other planes landing before them, that's all.
    On the other hand, similar to what you said, one could say that the investigation is supposed to determine just that - why it would have affected that one plane while others weren't affected.

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    Last edited by Vash01; 07-08-2013 at 08:11 AM.

  9. #49
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    Twitter:

    The Associated Press ‏@AP 10m
    BREAKING: Coroner probes whether Asiana plane crash victim was run over, killed by rescue vehicle -RJJ
    Oh dear....

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    A friend of mines daughter was in the plane that was on the runway getting ready to take off when that happened, right next to them. She is 17 and is really freaked out.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    I have no idea how similar or different 777 models are to other Boeing airliners, but I can't imagine a major airline letting anyone fly a 777 without a lot of training (or insurance companies allowing such a thing, for that matter). And of course, the flight crew includes more than one pilot, and presumably between them they have a fair bit of experience.
    It included a pilot and a co-pilot and a first officer, at least, the US airlines do. They had cut the first officer before 9/11 then re-introduced him, especially on oversea flights but I'm not sure if world wide or just the US airlines.
    Anyway, a co-pilot can be a lot less experienced than the pilot, the pilot usually has four stripes, the co-pilot often has less and can still be in a learning process wanting to earn those additional stripes. A landing done by a co-pilot can be rougher than that of a pilot depending on the co-pilot's experience.
    The first officer, as far as I know, is responsible for navigation, whatever that means.

    Quote Originally Posted by mysticchic View Post
    A friend of mines daughter was in the plane that was on the runway getting ready to take off when that happened, right next to them. She is 17 and is really freaked out.
    Understandably so!

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    For training to fly a plane alone you must have 100s of hours flying with someone. To fly a larger plane you have to have 1000s of hours and to be a commercial pilot you have to have 10,000s of hours flying. That's why most pilots are from the military. No one has that kind of money for the hours of training. Most pilots are certified in one type of plane or another. Like the 707, 737, 777, 747 ect. Each cockpit and plane are so different from each other, it's not like walking into the car dealer and being able to drive any car in there.
    You have to qualify in that plane.
    This looks like pilot error right now. I have a good friend who flew in 3 wars as a pilot/training officer. He flew refueling tankers. He didn't get hired when he applied at United.
    Yes, Brittney is pretty shook up. Her Mother even more. Her Mom has been posting prayers since last night and Brit is being very quiet. She is leaving today with her class on the trip.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by susan6 View Post
    Whatever the case, major props to the materials scientists and engineers who designed and put together that fuselage. The fact that it held together saved a lot of lives.
    Another thing - I read today that the designers and engineers made it such that it was possible for a fully-loaded B777 to evacuate everyone inside in under 90 seconds.....even when half of the exits were unusable and it's pitch black inside.

    And SFO shut down all the other flights that afternoon because all of their emergency crews were working on Asiana 214 and would not be available if another emergency occurred. Obviously very unlikely, but the fact they took no chances is an awesome thing. So many contingency plans can be beautiful when it seems nothing else works in this day and age.

    Quote Originally Posted by smurfy View Post
    Just curious - with how so much is under surveillance nowadays is so many places - do they film landings and takeoffs at airports? Or surveillance of all the grounds at an airpot for security purposes. Seems like airports should be filming all takeoffs and landings. Seems like something, in some cases, would help decipher events.
    It was suggested on the Airliners.net forums, but the runways are miles long and maintaining HD cameras for the allowable distance would be hundreds of thousands of dollars. Airports could go decades without seeing a crash like this, so it's unclear whether the effort would be worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mysticchic View Post
    A friend of mines daughter was in the plane that was on the runway getting ready to take off when that happened, right next to them. She is 17 and is really freaked out.
    Poor thing!
    Last edited by Anita18; 07-08-2013 at 02:57 AM.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballettmaus View Post
    To me, mere mortal person, it just doesn't seem to make sense to investigate into that as a cause for an accident when nothing happened to any of the other planes landing before them, that's all.
    On the other hand, similar to what you said, one could say that the investigation is supposed to determine just that - why it would have affected that one plane while others weren't affected.
    Ruling out any liability on the part of the airport will lessen the chance they will be included in the inevitable lawsuits. it's not enough to just say "nobody else crashed that day so it couldn't be our fault".
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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    Ruling out any liability on the part of the airport will lessen the chance they will be included in the inevitable lawsuits. it's not enough to just say "nobody else crashed that day so it couldn't be our fault".
    The NTSB will certainly consider it, but the fact that any pilot flying commercial should have been able to make that landing will likely free SFO from liability.

    It's not unusual for airports to have their Instrument Landing Systems (ILS) be taken off for maintenance. And again, not all airports have them to begin with. The precision approach path indicator (PAPI) systems at that runway (another landing system using indicator lights but no instruments) were functional at the time of the crash, but Asiana 214 ran them over when it crashed and it is no longer functional.

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    Last edited by Vash01; 07-08-2013 at 08:11 AM.

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by mysticchic View Post
    A friend of mines daughter was in the plane that was on the runway getting ready to take off when that happened, right next to them. She is 17 and is really freaked out.
    In the amateur video shown on CNN, the plane that was ready to take off appeared so close to the plane that was landing (and crashed) that it almost looked like a simultaneous event (the take off and a crash). I wonder if the passengers in the take off plane actually saw what happened to the other plane or did they just hear about it? If they saw it, that could be terrifying to anyone. I am glad that the crash did not impact the plane was taking off in any way (physically).

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    http://www.alternet.org/passengers-r...isco-jet-crash

    Passengers Recount Frighting Moments Before Fatal San Franscisco Jet Crash
    The plane "sped up, like the pilot knew he was short," one survivor said. "And then the back end just hit and flies up in the air and everybody's head goes up to the ceiling."
    EDIT:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...96701620130708

    Asiana says pilot of crashed plane was in training

    SEOUL | Sun Jul 7, 2013 9:01pm EDT

    (Reuters) - Asiana Airlines Inc said the pilot in charge of landing the Boeing 777 that crash-landed at San Francisco's airport on Saturday was training for the long-range plane and that it was his first flight to the airport with the jet.

    "It was Lee Kang-kook's maiden flight to the airport with the jet... He was in training. Even a veteran gets training (for a new jet)," a spokeswoman for Asiana Airlines said on Monday.

    The plane was travelling "significantly below" its intended speed and its crew tried to abort the landing just seconds before it hit the seawall in front of the runway, the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board said on Sunday.

    "He has a lot of experience and previously flown to San Francisco on different planes including the B747... and he was assisted by another pilot who has more experience with the 777," the spokeswoman said.

    Lee, who started his career at Asiana as an intern in 1994, has 9,793 hours of flying experience, but only 43 hours with the Boeing 777 jet.

    Co-pilot Lee Jeong-min, who has 3,220 hours of flying experience with the Boeing 777 and a total of 12,387 hours of flying experience, was helping Lee Kang-kook in the landing, the spokeswoman said.

    National Transportation Safety Board Chairwoman Deborah Hersman said Sunday that it was too early to say whether pilot error or mechanical failure were to blame.

    But she said there was no evidence of problems with the flight or the landing until 7 seconds before impact, when the crew tried to increase the plane's speed and the plane responded normally. The control tower was not alerted to any plane issues.

    Witnesses said the plane on Saturday appeared to be too low as it approached the runway, hit the ground before the runway started and the impact sheared off part of the tail of the plane and possibly landing gear as well.

    Asiana's chief executive said on Saturday that he did not believe the fatal crash was caused by mechanical failure, although the carrier refused to be drawn on whether the fault laid with pilot error. (Reporting by Hyunjoo Jin; Editing by Ryan Woo)

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    This whole thing is extremely tragic and scary.
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    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ntsb-...e-crash-glance

    NTSB FINDINGS ON SF PLANE CRASH AT A GLANCE
    By The Associated Press
    — Jul. 7 10:53 PM EDT

    SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Asiana Flight 214 makes its final approach after a 10-hour flight that started in Shanghai and stopped in Seoul. A preliminary review of the crash by federal investigators turns up the following:

    — APPROACH PROCEEDS NORMALLY ... the plane receives clearance from air traffic control to land without its instrument landing system. Visibility is about 10 miles with winds out of the southwest at 7 knots. There are no distress calls or requests for support in the air traffic control tapes that captured the discussion between a controller and the Asiana crew.

    — SEVEN SECONDS OUT ... the crew asks to increase its air speed. National Traffic Safety Board chairwoman Deborah Hersman says the plane came in well below the approach speed of 137 knots that crew members had discussed.

    — FOUR SECONDS OUT ... the stick shaker, a yolk the pilots hold, begins shaking, indicating the plane could stall.

    — 1.5 SECONDS OUT ... the crew calls to abort the landing and go around for another try.

    — CRASH ... the plane hits a seawall. The controller declares an emergency. The pilots talk to air traffic control and emergency vehicles are deployed.

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