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  1. #1
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    Two 2A's are not needed in a Free Program‏

    I think skaters should be allowed to put only one 2A in a Free Skating instead of two.
    Until 2009-2010 season they were allowed to do three and that let them compete with two different triples. Now they are forced to put three different triples(unless they put a 2Lz or something instead) but I don't think that's good enough. Since 2009 Worlds, the ladies have won with only four different triples planned in their Free Programs. In the old system, 2A used to be rather like a required element than an element to repeat. It should not be an element to gain scores easily or repeated to avoid putting more triples and skaters with more different triples should be more benefitted.

  2. #2

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    I agree.

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    I agree they're not needed, and it would be nice to see more variety in the triples attempted, but I also don't think limiting the number of allowed axels to 2 would be a god idea. The minimum score is hard enough to get for some of the lower-ranked skaters as things stand.

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    But if they were not allowed to do another 2A, they would have to risk another triple, so potentially more points.Besides, if someone has only two or three different triples they shouldn't be competing at senior championships. As much as I understand that there are lower ranked skaters, having only three triples is not enough even for juniors!

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    While I agree that some skaters' jumping content, specifically in the ladies event, has been diluted in recent years, I don't think that restricting the number of 2A's is the solution to 'force' skaters to attempt more difficult triple jumps. Skaters have their 7 jumping windows (or 8 for men), and I say that they should include their most quality and consistent jumps in their repertoire, while being smart about it (10% bonus, 3-jump combos, etc.). This system highly rewards quality - so if a skater performs a less-difficult jump of high quality compared to a more-difficult jump of lesser quality, they are essentially worth the same in many cases.

    There are some skaters who are capable of performing 7 triples AND two 2A's in the free skate (i.e. Gracie Gold), so why deny them of that extra competitive advantage if they have the skills to make it happen?

    As for skaters who were able to compete with two different triples and three 2A's before the rule change - I say, good for them! I think it's great that some skaters are able to get international experience at events like the Olympics and represent their country. Many of them are in it for the experience, not to make it to the podium.

    And let's not downplay the difficulty of the 2A either ... it's a tricky jump!

    Many skaters in the 6.0 era performed multiple 2A's in the free skate, so why should that change now?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Besides, if someone has only two or three different triples they shouldn't be competing at senior championships. As much as I understand that there are lower ranked skaters, having only three triples is not enough even for juniors!
    I'll have to disagree with you on that one. I can think of quite a few skaters that I found enjoyable to watch, who skated clean programs with "only" 2axels and 3 different triples. Anita Madsen and Kaat van Daele come to mind. Yes, doing easier triples means you won't be in medal contention for the most part, but I don't see why that should preclude you from participating at a major event. I'd much rather see earlier groups of skater skated cleanly, albeit with easier jumps than go back to the days when skaters flung themselves into hopeless 3lutz attempts and splatted all over the place.

  7. #7
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    Moved. Interesting but it ain't news

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    But if they were not allowed to do another 2A, they would have to risk another triple, so potentially more points.Besides, if someone has only two or three different triples they shouldn't be competing at senior championships. As much as I understand that there are lower ranked skaters, having only three triples is not enough even for juniors!
    The rules apply to all senior competitord. Nnot only those who qualify for championships.

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    I do not think any rule change is necessary or beneficial. Skaters should be allowed to compete to their ability, not be forced beyond. Competitions should not be designed to break skaters.

    Generally, the reward of doing multiple 2A is not winning, which is enough of a penalty as far as I am concerned.

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    In the current rule, skaters can repeat 2 differrent triples besides two 2As.

    How about allowing to repeat 2 differrent triples or 2As? If a skater do two 2As, she can repeat only 1 triple. If she repeat 2 triples,then she can do 2A only once.

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    I'm not really sure of the point the original poster is trying to make, but I do think that IJS has in some ways made it more advantageous to do a second double axel in combination with one or two other doubles than to add a seventh triple.

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    You must do an axel jump in the fs! Murakami decided to do a triple jump 2a sequence and then one time left out the axel and had a jump erased because she did no axel! Two may be good for security so where the skater will fill the axel requirement.

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    I agree. I would like to see skaters attempt all the triples up to lutz or go with other doubles. However, then we just see everyone doing 2lutzs instead. I think it would encourage the top skaters to do those triples they tend to avoid. If minimum TES is an issue then lower it.
    -Brian
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    There are skaters like Juulia Turkkila who has skated 50+ point SP's and 90+ point LP's in ISU competitions with just two different triples. Of course we expect her to do more triples to stay competitive but if she's allowed only one 2A, she has to risk two new triples to fill her jumping passes.

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    .. or go for 2Lz ;-)

  16. #16

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    Agreed. You should only be able to do 2 of them if you've attempted all 5 other triples.

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    Even if they put a 2Lz instead of another triple, I think it's important to put different jumps. Even if it's a double that they put, it would be a good chance for them to make it a triple in the future.


    Quote Originally Posted by fsfan22 View Post
    There are some skaters who are capable of performing 7 triples AND two 2A's in the free skate (i.e. Gracie Gold), so why deny them of that extra competitive advantage if they have the skills to make it happen?
    I've heard that she has been practicing a 3A and a 4S so this would be a good oppotunity for her to put one of them in her Free Skating, also for Tuktamisheva to put a 3A.


    Quote Originally Posted by OKAERINKO View Post
    In the current rule, skaters can repeat 2 differrent triples besides two 2As.

    How about allowing to repeat 2 differrent triples or 2As? If a skater do two 2As, she can repeat only 1 triple. If she repeat 2 triples,then she can do 2A only once.
    I think that is also a good solution.


    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    You must do an axel jump in the fs! Murakami decided to do a triple jump 2a sequence and then one time left out the axel and had a jump erased because she did no axel! Two may be good for security so where the skater will fill the axel requirement.
    She did put one but just wasn't counted. If they want to put a 2A sequence, they need to have another plan that they change another triple into a 2A in case they fail to put a shceduled Axel.

  18. #18
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    I don't see why 2A's should be restricted to one, which would eliminate 2A + 2A sequences.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  19. #19

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    Not sure why someone like Mao should be punished for trying TWO 3A's. What if she doubles one of them? Why should that affect whether she can do the 2A that she planned to do?

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    I don't see why 2A's should be restricted to one, which would eliminate 2A + 2A sequences.
    I agree. This is a very interesting sequence.

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