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  1. #21

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    If Jill could have execute an SP with a 3F-2T or 3F-2Lp (a la the 1988 Olympics) and an LP with 5 triples executed (3F or 3Lp, 3T-2T, 1A-3S, 3T, 3S) of 6 planned triples ((3F, 3Lp, 3T-2T, 1A-3S, 3T, 3S), she could have made the World and Olympic Team for 1991 and 1992. However, she stopped developing and adding new content at the 1986-87 season. I think Fassi miscalculated with her training, thinking that figures would continue to be part of the competition through the 1992 Olympics or that they would continue to be part of the competition as 20% of the score instead of 30%.

    Jill's competition for the 3rd spot was Kerrigan, who planned 7 triples but fell on 3-4 time, as opposed to Jill, who would just double jumps or stepped out.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 06-25-2013 at 09:46 PM.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    I think Fassi miscalculated with her training, thinking that figures would continue to be part of the competition through the 1992 Olympics or that they would continue to be part of the competition as 20% of the score instead of 30%.

    Jill's competition for the 3rd spot was Kerrigan, who planned 7 triples but fell on 3-4 time, as opposed to Jill, who would just double jumps or stepped out.
    You are probably right about Fassi's strategy. But when was it exactly decided that figures won't be at competitions anymore ? It wasn't sure in 1987 that Figures would be eliminated before 1992 ?
    About Jill vs Kerrigan, I think judges would have give an advantage to Kerrigan, because Kerrigan was virtually able to do one of the best 3Lz of the competition, and a 3T/3T. Even if she fell a lot, what skaters could potentially do at the practices has always been important in Figure Skating.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    I think judges would have give an advantage to Kerrigan, because Kerrigan was virtually able to do one of the best 3Lz of the competition, and a 3T/3T. Even if she fell a lot, what skaters could potentially do at the practices has always been important in Figure Skating.
    Jill was the 4th place finisher at the 1988 Olympics, the 1989 World Bronze Medalist, the 1990 World Champion, and had the better coach.

    Kerrigan left everything on the practice ice and only had figures about as good as Yamaguchi.

    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    But when was it exactly decided that figures won't be at competitions anymore ? It wasn't sure in 1987 that Figures would be eliminated before 1992?
    The vote to reduced the compulsory figures portion of the competition to 2 figures that were 20% of score for the 1989 and 1990 season, then eliminate figures from competition in 1991 happened at the 1988 ISU Congress.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 06-25-2013 at 10:22 PM.

  4. #24

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    If Jill's jumps were tiny, Kristi's were microscopic.

    Just goes to show how important having 5 types of triples became after Witt retired.

    Jill made great improvements in presentation in '89-'90, it's a shame about her subsequent injury.

  5. #25
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    Had Jill been training different triples years earlier with the anticipation of figures being removed she probably could have had a full set of triples. After all Kristi with her tiny jumps, and not even great technique on many of them (terrible flutz for todays standards) got them all, and was even able to repeat them and put them in tough combinations. Not only for the future but it also would have made sense to have more triples even for the Witt-Thomas era since she was never going to get the benefit of the doubt over the older veterans heading towards Calgary if they all skated similar, she had to pull out something special to have beat them. Had she worked harder on the tougher triples sooner she would have executed something like her triple flip combo in the short in Calgary much better, and it would have actually payed off for her rather than giving her an even lower placement.

  6. #26
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    I remember reading back in the day that after '90 Worlds, Jill was going to train a 3z but that never materialized.

  7. #27

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    Didn't Trenary suffer a partially severed calf muscle or Achilles tendon when another skater sliced her with their blade? I'm not sure how serious it was (some of the fluff pieces claimed she was told she would not be able to return to skating or walk without a limp), but perhaps it affected her training.

  8. #28
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    Jill and these ladies (Kadavy, Thomas, Witt) were all bigger and more womanly than any of the ladies we saw nailing triple lutzes in the post-figures events in the early 90s. Yamaguchi, Lu Chen, Harding, Kerrigan, and Bonaly all had different body types than Trenary. I think she would have had to learn 3Lz and 3L by 1987 when she was still a teenager like Yamaguchi.

  9. #29

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwDwPQE6U4A

    I think it could be possible for a skater built like Trenary to get a 3Lz. An example of a skater like Trenary with a 3Lz was Jeri Campbell.

  10. #30
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    If Jeri Campbell hadn't been injured and withdrawn from the 1989 US National Championships, she could have made an impact on the World scene as well.

    I loved her skates at the 1994 US Open Championships, however.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwNnTuZUyxI

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vvbyTfvLJQ

  11. #31
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    I always wondered what happened to Jeri Campbell since I remember her from the 88 Nationals and being excited at her potential and reall liking her skating. I was even thinking at the time she was what the U.S needed (along with young Harding) to compete with Ito in the future. In her case able to do the harder triples, big and easy jumps, very strong spins, strong ice presence, and pretty good at compulsory figures. Then poof she seemed to dissapear completely. I saw her in later years at a U.S Open event which she won, I forget if it was a qualifying event or the main event.

  12. #32

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    ZOMG...didn't realize someone else besides Michelle skated to this song by Annie Lennox:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vvbyTfvLJQ

    I really liked the layback - forward camel - forward sit combo, and all the transitions.

    booooo judges!
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  13. #33
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    It seems to me that the way judges approached credit for jumps changed between 1988 and 1992, perhaps with the elimination of compulsory figures. In more modern times if you did a 3F combo in the short you were in a totally different stratosphere as someone with a 3T combo. Back in 1988, not so much. Trenary's combo in Calgary wasn't pretty but it was clean. Ito's 2L/3L was just insane. By 1992 or 1994 standards (where you are pretty much slotted based on the difficulty of your SP combo) these two programs would been in the top 2 in the short.

    You could hear Carlo in the K&C in Calgary saying "5.4...for a FLIP??" and there was the last year she attempted it in the short. After that she struggled with even basic difficulty in the short so no, she wouldn't have been anywhere in 1992 without at least a reliable flip combo. The world and the judging system passed her.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I always wondered what happened to Jeri Campbell since I remember her from the 88 Nationals and being excited at her potential and reall liking her skating. I was even thinking at the time she was what the U.S needed (along with young Harding) to compete with Ito in the future.


    What was so special about Jeri's 2 triples performance at the 88 Nationals? She also completed only 2 triples at the 90 Nationals. It didn't matter that Jeri had a 3lutz on paper; She wasn't that consistent with her jumps at the Nationals stage, and it seemed like her only consistent triple was the toe. She wouldn't have been very competitive at the World level at all.


    Check out the hair.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock2 View Post
    It seems to me that the way judges approached credit for jumps changed between 1988 and 1992, perhaps with the elimination of compulsory figures. In more modern times if you did a 3F combo in the short you were in a totally different stratosphere as someone with a 3T combo. Back in 1988, not so much. Trenary's combo in Calgary wasn't pretty but it was clean. Ito's 2L/3L was just insane. By 1992 or 1994 standards (where you are pretty much slotted based on the difficulty of your SP combo) these two programs would been in the top 2 in the short.

    You could hear Carlo in the K&C in Calgary saying "5.4...for a FLIP??" and there was the last year she attempted it in the short. After that she struggled with even basic difficulty in the short so no, she wouldn't have been anywhere in 1992 without at least a reliable flip combo. The world and the judging system passed her.
    Jill did a triple flip combo in the Calgary short and got 5.4s for technical elements. Witt does a triple toe combo in the short and got 5.8s for technical elements. That was the biggest difference in their 1st and 6th placings too as both had 5.9s for presentation. To me it makes no sense at all, so I agree with Carlos.

    I also agree with the thread starter Jill just never seemed to be in the right place at the right time, or get enough credit from judges. A very unlucky skater. Made by political and corrupt judges to wait her turn behind older Thomas, Manley, Witt, Leistner, and Ivanova, until after Calgary, forced to compete with the best skating ever by a women from Ito in 89-90, and then with Ito going downhill with injuries, inconsistency, and age, geting injured and not able to keep skating, upgrade her jumps, and compete with Yamaguchi for gold medals in 91-92.

    I think she could have won the bronze in Albertville though even with a triple toe combo in the short though. Young Hubert sucked as a skater and came 5th in the short with just a triple loop combo, so Jill with a triple toe combo would have been placed something from 3rd to 5th and then passed Kerrigan's bad LP with a respectable skate with maybe a triple flip thrown in and landed.

  16. #36

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    Jill Trenary and Nancy Kerrigan are two of my favorite all time skaters. I cannot believe some of the comments about how dull or unathletic they were. Are you kidding? Both Jill and Nancy had great athletic ability. Jill had such lovely natural style and presentation as well. Her jumps were high and exciting. LOVE her one foot axel to triple salchow jump combo. I still think of her as one of the most stylish US ladies. Oksana Baiul named Jill as her skating idol because of her beautiful, feminine skating style. I think Jill was caught between two eras....one, when figures were important, and the other when multiple variety of triple jumps ruled the day.

    Nancy was just so elegant and stunning when she was in her peak years. She had a true triple lutz and triple/triple combos , and when on was amazing. She tended to get too nervous for her long programs. She nearly won Olympic gold (and in my mind should have). Not too shabby. Anyway, just wanted to pipe up and say what a fan I am of both of these ladies.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnskater View Post
    Jill Trenary and Nancy Kerrigan are two of my favorite all time skaters. I cannot believe some of the comments about how dull or unathletic they were. Are you kidding? Both Jill and Nancy had great athletic ability. Jill had such lovely natural style and presentation as well. Her jumps were high and exciting. LOVE her one foot axel to triple salchow jump combo. I still think of her as one of the most stylish US ladies. Oksana Baiul named Jill as her skating idol because of her beautiful, feminine skating style. I think Jill was caught between two eras....one, when figures were important, and the other when multiple variety of triple jumps ruled the day.

    Nancy was just so elegant and stunning when she was in her peak years. She had a true triple lutz and triple/triple combos , and when on was amazing. She tended to get too nervous for her long programs. She nearly won Olympic gold (and in my mind should have). Not too shabby. Anyway, just wanted to pipe up and say what a fan I am of both of these ladies.
    I love the one foot 1A-3S too. That's hard. She kind of got old with it by not doing any sort of reinvention though. Renee Roca was not as good as Sandra Bezic.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    I love the one foot 1A-3S too. That's hard. She kind of got old with it by not doing any sort of reinvention though.
    That's the same with all the skating moves. It got tired when Denise did her obligatory Beillman spin in EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    That's the same with all the skating moves. It got tired when Denise did her obligatory Beillman spin in EVERY SINGLE PROGRAM.
    Not as bad as Irina's bielmans on both feet. That was a "bring a book" moment from the first time she did it.

  20. #40

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    I also hated when Kwan started doing the COE spiral in her LPs (from 2002-2005). The SP I could understand as it was rewarded and a spiral sequence was required. It was a novelty when we saw it in her Red Violin LP, but then by Tosca, it was tired. Although, I can't blame her for Bolero since the code sort of demanded it.

    I always wondered why it seemed like every skater seemed to have a set spiral sequence in their LPs, but Kwan would always put individual spirals in various places throughout the routine.

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