View Poll Results: Which women could realisticalness wise have done enough in long to win 1982 Worlds

Voters
33. You may not vote on this poll
  • Cotrill (beat Witt in long)

    8 24.24%
  • Thompson (beat Zayak in long)

    14 42.42%
  • Witt (beat Zayak in long)

    27 81.82%
  • Kristofics Binder (beat Leisnter in long)

    18 54.55%
  • Wegelius (beat Binder in long)

    6 18.18%
  • Vodorezova (beat Leistner in long)

    17 51.52%
  • none of them could have

    6 18.18%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 58
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    126
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0

    1982 Worlds- which women could have done enough in long to win title realistically

    A friend explained the factored points to me from the 1982 Worlds. Apparently if all else remained the same this is what certain people would have had to do to win overall:

    Thompson- place 1st in long skate over Zayak
    Witt- place 1st in long skate over Zayak
    Cotrill- place 2nd in long skate over Witt
    Kristofics Binder- placed 3rd in long skate over Leistner
    Vodorozeva- placed 3rd in long skate over Leistner
    Wegelius- placed 4th in long skate over Kristofics Binder

    Assuming everyone else skated the same as they did, which of these skaters realistically could have skated well enough to achieve these long program placings to win the World title over Zayak overall. I didnt see Leistner and Kristofics full skates so dont know how strong they were or how many triples they landed. Vodorezova was a shadow of her younger self in freestyle, but still good enough to maybe do 3 triples on a good day which would probably be enough for 3rd over immature Leistner, no matter how many triples she did. So I would say for her yes. I would guess for Witt yes it was possible at her best. Kristofics 3rd in long and Wegulius 4th in long I am going to guess yes was possible for them, but I dont really know much about their skating. For Thompson and Cotrill I would say no those placements were not possible for them.

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    126
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Also why were many of these women not even at the 1982 Worlds. Did many of them just quit. Isnt that unusual in the middle of a quad. What happened to Vodorezova at the 84 Olympics. She skated like the worst I ever saw her, even in her weaker free skater second career:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_YA7ZDQZ7w

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,541
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    6831
    Kay Thomson, with her 3Lz and amazing spins, could have rightfully overtaken Zayak and Witt if she skated well in the freeskate, but she didn't.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    126
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Kay Thomson, with her 3Lz and amazing spins, could have rightfully overtaken Zayak if she skated well in the freeskate, but she didn't.
    I thought the 3Lz was her only triple though. Would that have been enough to give her the value in judges eyes to compensate for alot of triples, but not as difficult as the 3lz. She might have had one more triple she sometimes did, but I dont remember what it was now. I remember her spins though, she must have been Swiss born.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,541
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    6831
    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    I thought the 3Lz was her only triple though. Would that have been enough to give her the value in judges eyes to compensate for alot of triples, but not as difficult as the 3lz. She might have had one more triple she sometimes did, but I dont remember what it was now. I remember her spins though, she must have been Swiss born.
    Quality and difficulty could trump quantity back then.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    22
    Posts
    12,951
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Cottrill, Vodorezova, Witt, and Kristofics Binder all could have. Thomson not sure. Wegelius definitely no. Even 4th in the free program was out of her reach since she wasnt capable of landing the triple salchow she needed to place 4th in the free. She has never landed a triple in competition ever.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,541
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    6831
    Kay Thomson was 6th in figures and 6th in the SP to Zayak's 4th in figures and 10th in the SP.

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    356
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I would say Vodorezova and Witt for sure. Witt had the triple flip, although I think she abondoned it by Sarajevo.

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    90
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Witt and Vodorezova for sure. Not sure about the others. I thought Vodorezova deserved 2nd in the long program even with the skate she gave but the judges lowballed her and put her 8th behind women who also did only 1 triple or did none. I think the put her down on purpose so she wouldnt win overall.

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    105
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Cottrill, Vodorezova, Witt, and Kristofics Binder all could have. Thomson not sure. Wegelius definitely no. Even 4th in the free program was out of her reach since she wasnt capable of landing the triple salchow she needed to place 4th in the free. She has never landed a triple in competition ever.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...vDAuKx8#t=175s

    Here the commentators discuss Wegelius' triples and wonder why she fails to land them in major competitions. Ironically, she landed an iffy triple in Helsinki worlds gala, which I guess was her farewell skate as an amateur. I think she could have placed 4th with a clean LP including the triple salchow, after all she was 5th in the SP.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    22
    Posts
    12,951
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    How many triples did Binder land? Since if she landed only 1 then maybe Wegelius could have placed 4th in the long to win with only 1 triple. However if Binder landed 2 or 3 it would have been hard to place 4th over her in the long with only 1. At the least she would have had to land a clean triple salchow, then not mess up any of the doubles she did.

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    1,251
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    This is an interesting study of the oddities of the ordinals systems. It was unusual in that so many good free skaters did poorly in either figures or the SP, leaving a lot more skaters than usual bunched at the top within within a point or few points of each other after the SP.

    After the SP, the standings of the skaters mentioned in the poll were
    Wegelius 3.2 ordinals
    Vedorezova 4.2
    Kristofics-Binder 4.2
    Cottrill 5
    Witt 5.8
    Thompson 6
    Zayak 6.4
    Leistner 9.2

    So, any of the top 3 could have won simply by winning the FS. Cottrill needed to win the FS and have anybody but Wegelius place 2nd. Witt and Thompson each needed to win the FS and have Wegelus place 4th or worse while another skater placed second pushing Ved. and K-B to 3rd or worse. Zayak needed to win the FS with Cottrill no better than 3rd, Ved and K-B fourth or worse and Wegelius 5th or worse.

    As it was the FS placements for these skaters were
    Wegelius 12th
    Vedorezova 8
    Kristofics-Binder 4
    Cottrill 17
    Witt 2
    Thompson 9
    Zayak 1
    Leistner 3
    Last edited by Susan M; 07-02-2013 at 08:29 PM.

  13. #13
    Vacant
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Here and there
    Age
    40
    Posts
    8,742
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    5719
    Cottrill had the content but didn't deliver. She attempted flip, loop, sal and toe - the most difficult LP attempted by a woman in senior competition to that date that I had seen. (Ito was already out-jumping them in Juniors). Maybe Biellmann in '76 if the stories are true. Anyway, trouble was she under-rotated, double-footed and flipped out of just about every jump and the judges nailed her for it

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,520
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    3645
    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    Also why were many of these women not even at the 1982 Worlds. Did many of them just quit. Isnt that unusual in the middle of a quad. What happened to Vodorezova at the 84 Olympics. She skated like the worst I ever saw her, even in her weaker free skater second career:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_YA7ZDQZ7w
    Why is Dick picking apart her perfectly adequate double lutz? Does anyone know what happened to her? She looks like she had some major problem leading to this. I like her so much better than Ivanova.

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,520
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    3645
    Quote Originally Posted by chanunderrated View Post
    I thought the 3Lz was her only triple though. Would that have been enough to give her the value in judges eyes to compensate for alot of triples, but not as difficult as the 3lz. She might have had one more triple she sometimes did, but I dont remember what it was now. I remember her spins though, she must have been Swiss born.
    There was a Canadian lady in the 80s who did one triple, and this was a 3Lz?

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Reserving a parking spot for Mao.
    Age
    32
    Posts
    22,681
    vCash
    83943
    Rep Power
    40490
    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    There was a Canadian lady in the 80s who did one triple, and this was a 3Lz?
    Kay Thomson landing the lutz at 1984 Canadians
    I can call the moon a pear, but it doesn't make it so. -- kwanfan1818

  17. #17

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,520
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    3645
    She had some interesting spin variations but Thomson needed to get a professional choreographer. As Peggy would say--back before she decided her job was to pretend to be nice--that looked very sloppy.

  18. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    1,251
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Also why were many of these women not even at the 1982 Worlds. Did many of them just quit. Isn't that unusual in the middle of a quad.
    I can't figure out who you are talking about when you say "these women". I only see one post in this thread above yours and it is talking about women who did skate at 1982 Worlds.

    Re quitting mid-quad - It was pretty usual for skaters to retire after the Olympic year, but it was not uncommon for skaters just off the podium or perennial silver medalists to hang around one more year in hopes of snagging a medal or a title after the skaters ahead of them retired and before the next generation improved to pass them.
    Last edited by Susan M; 07-03-2013 at 05:46 AM.

  19. #19
    Vacant
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Here and there
    Age
    40
    Posts
    8,742
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    5719
    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    She had some interesting spin variations but Thomson needed to get a professional choreographer. As Peggy would say--back before she decided her job was to pretend to be nice--that looked very sloppy.
    Was Sandra Bezic not good enough for her?

  20. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Miami, FL, USA
    Posts
    6,772
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    No one - Elaine was queen

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •