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  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatherineC View Post
    Well, I think comparing Haydn and Scriabin would be very wrong for me as a musician (it would be like comparing skaters of 50s and those who skate now), for first, because, they are from different times. Haydn is from classicism, but Scriabin is from late romantism and even with taste of expressionism (I read that he was influented by Chopin (who is a RARE romantic) and Arnold Schoenberg (who is expressionist)), so he is kind of mixture of both these styles. I didn't quite know how to describe his style, but when I saw his influences, I was totally sure he is romantic-expressionist or something like that. But, going back to your question - well, Haydn's music is absolute different from Scriabin's, but I see a little connection. Yes, Scriabin's music is full of surprises, but not maybe as you described 'BOOM and you're off your seat'. Well, maybe sometimes even like that ;D I don't know, i'm confused, because i don't know how to answer ;D Romanticism needs to be a little bit 'overdosed'. If it's loud, it's extremely loud, if it's quiet, it's extremely. That's all I can say.

    Well, I haven't actually listened to Mendelssohn's violin concerto, but that's uncharacteric to 1st movement in concerto to be in variation form. 1st movements in classic concertos are always in 'sonata forms', it would be VERY long to tell, how it works, the system of it. But it's normally that main theme returns in the end, that's a sign that it's sonata form. and yes, it might seem as a variation form, but it's not. In sonata form cadenza can include parts from main theme, and subject theme can sound like main theme (just in other scale)....... well, it's hard. Music theory is DAMN hard. But I'd say that there's a really small possibility that 1st movement would be in variation form. So I say no. Variation form is characteristic to 2nd movements.

    I LOVE the choice. It's SO them. I think they should use parts from Spring/Summer in Seasons, and 1st movement from Scriabin. I think they need to use both, but I really want them to end program with Scriabin, definitely. And, yes, I think pieces would fit to each other. As the Autumn/Winter parts in Glazunov are not so good, they should include piano concerto as Autumn and Winter parts.

    Btw, Haydn has oratorio 'Seasons', and he described Spring as childhood, Summer as juvenility, Autumn as maturity and Winter as oldness. And Marina said something about describing life as seasons in this program. I don't know, this just came through my mind.

    (((: I'm happy to introduce you a little bit in musicians world.
    Thank you so much, Kate! I think I know what you mean. And I happy that you love the choice, I needed to see it from a musician's perspective. I love your description of a romantic piece as it sums up the movement pretty well: it always goes for the extremes.

    Your comment on Mendelssohn's violin concerto got me really curious. Here it is: http://youtu.be/nO_aRIXXXpE It kicks off with the main theme. Then after the cadenza (around 9:30) the orchestra joins in with the main theme again, that's not variation? Sorry, sorta on and off topic, I know, but I am very curious about this LOL.

    I now have homework to do. Having read your description, I will listen to each piece again. Your posts have helped understand them much better. Again, thank you so much! You are awesome.
    Last edited by Golightly; 08-05-2013 at 10:52 PM. Reason: Got the time wrong

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    I'm a musician as well. Mendelssohn E Minor isn't in variation form. I think it's Sonata Allegro Form.
    Aww, nice to meet you! What kind of instruments do you play? Or you're a musical theoretic?

  3. #423
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    Love reading all of your descriptions and interpretations of the music, so interesting. In any case, I'm no musician, but the FD music just gives me goosebumps, their deep edges and line are so suited to waltzing. The SD music is also just fab, their ability to dance and move to the music is going to make this such a great SD - I think they're taking their Funny face FD concept to the next level with this SD.

  4. #424

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    Doesn't the sonata form also have variations, in a sense? It's just a much more structured way of varying the themes than in a 'theme and variations' format.

    Wikipedial link to sonata form.

    An excerpt from Wikipedia's explanation:

    The first required section is the exposition. The exposition presents the primary thematic material for the movement: one or two themes or theme groups, . . . The exposition is followed by the development (my note: 2nd required section) where the harmonic and textural possibilities of the thematic material are explored. (my note: this can sound like varations on the theme, to some extent) . . .The development then re-transitions back to the recapitulation (third required section) where the thematic material returns in the tonic key, and for the recapitulation to complete the musical argument, material that has not been stated in the tonic key is "resolved" by being played, in whole or in part, in the tonic.
    .

    So the sonata form does actually use themes, and varies them, but it's in stuctured form. As CatherineC and Macassar88 discussed, the sonata form was used widely during the classical period (1700s into the 1800s) and into the Romantic period; Mendelssohn would belong to this period.

    However, the theme and varaitions format has been used over a longer time period from at least Bach (Goldberg variations, etc), and probably earlier, up to the present (would some jazz qualify? I think so). The theme and variations format is a less structured format than the the sonata form, although both forms use a theme or themes and vary them.

  5. #425

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    OMIGOODNESS SO EXCITED!!! Thanks for all the enlightenment about these pieces so far everyone! I am listening to all the music now. I think the short dance will be stunning - fun and playful and elegant at the same time and I am a big fan of Ella and Louis so wooot! I am a lot less familiar with the Freedance music but from what I have heard so far my only issue is that I want them to skate to all of it! Now off to figure out how I can see them live this season!

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatherineC View Post
    Aww, nice to meet you! What kind of instruments do you play? Or you're a musical theoretic?
    I am both. I play piano, violin, and viola, and I have taken a bunch of music theory and ear training courses.

  7. #427

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    In the Seasons link that lola10 provided (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUhQBB2V-nI) skating fans will recognize a few music choices from past Jill Trenary and Karen Preston programs. The programs are Trenary's 1988 Olympic/Worlds long program and Preston's 1992 Olympic/Worlds short program.

    20:00-21:00 Trenary's slow section
    25:36-26:50 Preston's 1st section
    27:17-28:06 Trenary's and Preston's final section
    28:07-28:45 Preston's slow section

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    I'm a musician as well. Mendelssohn E Minor isn't in variation form. I think it's Sonata Allegro Form.
    I can second that. Played it another lifetime ago.

    I am so excited about their music choices as well.

    Also, I think Grande would be a lovely thread title down the line. As per Lola10's comment a few pages earlier.

  9. #429
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    OMG I was taking a break from FSU and was actually thinking after all the drama last season maybe I should consciously make an effort to de-hype myself for the Olympic season.

    I guess it ain't happening because I'M SO HYPED!!!!! Classic V/M dancing to a ballet???? YES PLEASE!!!

  10. #430

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    Quote Originally Posted by sternfunken View Post
    "Although it is generally thought that Virtue and Moir, who have won two world titles in addition to Olympic gold, will retire after this season, Virtue refused to say anything definite.

    "We do not know yet what we will do for the season after the Olympics," she said. "We take it year by year."

    So many new and wonderful Information in that icenetwork article, and this one I hadn't really expect! It is like a one day to early birthday present!
    Happy early bday!

    I'm still so happy and we get to see the SD on Saturday, I really can't believe it! I got to listen to The Seasons, all thirty-eight minutes of it and eight minutes of Piano Concerto and I am in love. BTW do you really think they're considering staying in past Sochi, I feel like they're just messing lol.
    "They’re everything in a team that we strive to be...they are to me the quintessential ice dance team of our time."~Kaitlyn Weaver

  11. #431
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    I'm wondering if these musical choices will be audience friendly? I have a tin ear and am unfamiliar with the music.

  12. #432

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    I think they will be extremely audience-friendly (thinking specifically of the free dance), but not in a 'I can hum this tune' type of way. I think it will be more like the way in which Jeff Buttle's programs to Ararat or Naqoyqatsi, or Michelle Kwan's program to The Red Violin, were very audience friendly. Most people didn't know the music, but the programs had such strong music, such interesting choreography and such a perfect fit to the music that they absolutely drew people in when they were skated well. V/M now have the strong music; the interesting choreography will be up to Marina (and perhaps Jennifer Swan), and the perfect fit to the music will be up to V/M. I think Marina and V/M are up to the challenge.

    It will take time to reach that level, however, since (as Tracy Wilson sometimes says) this is not music that carries the skater; rather it is music that the skater must carry. The end result, though, can be much stronger than something that is immediately recognizable and hummable.

  13. #433
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    The music is pretty. Looking forward to seeing the programs. Sounds like Zoueva hinted that this will be like looking at the "Mahler" couple but 4 years later.

  14. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golightly View Post
    Thank you so much, Kate! I think I know what you mean. And I happy that you love the choice, I needed to see it from a musician's perspective. I love your description of a romantic piece as it sums up the movement pretty well: it always goes for the extremes.

    Your comment on Mendelssohn's violin concerto got me really curious. Here it is: http://youtu.be/nO_aRIXXXpE It kicks off with the main theme. Then after the cadenza (around 9:30) the orchestra joins in with the main theme again, that's not variation? Sorry, sorta on and off topic, I know, but I am very curious about this LOL.

    I now have homework to do. Having read your description, I will listen to each piece again. Your posts have helped understand them much better. Again, thank you so much! You are awesome.
    Sorry I didn't answer earlier, yesterday I just went to sleep (it was very late in Latvia when we discussed ;dd), but now I'm here. I guess geoskate in post #424 already answered your question and it's definitely NOT the variation form. It's normal for main theme to get back in the end in sonata form.

    Thanks! I'm glad that everything helped!

    Quote Originally Posted by volunteer View Post
    Love reading all of your descriptions and interpretations of the music, so interesting. In any case, I'm no musician, but the FD music just gives me goosebumps, their deep edges and line are so suited to waltzing.
    Thank you!

  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macassar88 View Post
    I am both. I play piano, violin, and viola, and I have taken a bunch of music theory and ear training courses.
    I play flute and piano and I'm studying solfege (solfeggio, sol-fa or whatever it's called in English), music theory and music history, also ear training... full pack ;D

  16. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueglass View Post
    I'm wondering if these musical choices will be audience friendly? I have a tin ear and am unfamiliar with the music.
    About Glazunov's piece I'll say honestly - beginning IS a bit boring. Try to start listening around ~10:00 mark, there music is more familiar, it's happy, has a lot of waltzes... Maybe that sounds better to you.

    Scriabin - what can I say - take some red roses, eat some dark chocolate, go to the 5:20 mark and enjoy.

  17. #437
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    I'm VERY sorry for posting so much, but - I noticed that Adagio from 'Seasons' has piano version too. So maybe they'll use piano version to sound more similar to the piano concerto? Anyways, I'm just saying ;DD

    Piano version - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTvgta5Zwkk

    Orchestra version (around 31:03 mark) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUhQBB2V-nI

  18. #438
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    Post more! We like it here!

  19. #439

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golightly View Post
    Thank you so much, Kate! I think I know what you mean. And I happy that you love the choice, I needed to see it from a musician's perspective. I love your description of a romantic piece as it sums up the movement pretty well: it always goes for the extremes.

    Your comment on Mendelssohn's violin concerto got me really curious. Here it is: http://youtu.be/nO_aRIXXXpE It kicks off with the main theme. Then after the cadenza (around 9:30) the orchestra joins in with the main theme again, that's not variation? Sorry, sorta on and off topic, I know, but I am very curious about this LOL.

    I now have homework to do. Having read your description, I will listen to each piece again. Your posts have helped understand them much better. Again, thank you so much! You are awesome.
    The unusual thing about Mendelssohn's violin concerto is that it's the VIOLIN itself that states the first/main theme. It had been typical to that point for the orchestra to introduce the theme(s) first--and THEN the soloist comes in on the theme to do his/her thing, and then the piece moves onward into the development and recapitulation sections.

    Anyway, it is REALLY nice that they haven't chosen any skating warhorses. Hurray!

    (Man, I haven't talked about music theory in so long but I LURVED music history in college. Unfortunately my college taught theory through composition, and I was way too terrified to try composition so I never formally got the whole theory thing but through playing violin for many years and all the history and a few years of piano I got a lot of it.)
    BARK LESS. WAG MORE.

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    Catherine thanks so much for all your postings. I have been on the road so no time to listen to the music yet but I am now all primed and will make sure to have dark chocolate.....

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